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RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:32:02 PM

Demogorgon

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/23/2008
Status: offline

I've read the majority of the posts here about the right to own guns, namely handguns. I'd like to make a couple points that I didn't see mentioned. If they were mentioned, please forgive my failure to see. Somebody mentioned that handguns should be more tightly controlled, if not outright banned, as they were designed to solely kill to kill people. I hunt with my pistol, and I have yet to hear of a statewide human season here in Michigan. I have used my pistols, as well as rifles and shotguns in national championship events. Guns do not kill people, peop'e kill people. As soon as guns are outlawed, only the criminals will own them. If guns are banned, criminals will still have them or will go to carryting knives, hammers, or anything else they can use to cause fear and intimidation. I'm a gun owner, none of my firearms ar eillegally owned, nor were they illegally obtained. With my being brought up around guns, I feel very secure in the knowledge and saying that I have forgotten more about guns than most people know. I say that not out of arrogance, but from the truth. My grandfather built muzzle loaders when I was a kid, and he built flintlocks for Dixie Gun Works. Has anybody heard of Friendship Indiana or ther NMLRA? If so, and you visited the Fall National Shoots about 25 years ago and longer, you probably have seen a man in a wheelchair, and his son compete in skeet and trap. They also are my grandfather and father. I learned a lot from them, especially on how full of shit the pro gun control folks are. With todays poor economy, and police being laid off, I'll trust my guns to protect me and my family long before I trust a too far away cop.

(in reply to allyC)

Post #: 61

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:45:58 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

You have got to be fucking kidding me. Let's break this down for your answers, shall we.

1) Get out. Yeah that is a great answer, next time you see a battered wife, be sure and tell her that it is as simple as getting out. Do you understand the psychological issues that are usually involved? Let us not even go into attempted rape by a stranger, or having to work in less than desirable areas.

2) Get the cops. You mean after they have already had the shit beat out of them, or been raped. Cops do not protect you, they are called in after the attack has already occurred. Not a solution either.

I was not just talking about domestic violence, but if you want to pigeon hole the discussion we can go there as well. So let us say it is the first time, and he is determined to beat the hell out of her. If she had a pistol, and was trained in it's use she could use it as an equalizer.

Life is just so simple to you it seems. Never been in a conflict where you may be maimed or killed? Guess you stay in a nice cozy safe place eh? Me? I will keep my weapons, and use them in a responsible manner, protecting those that are under my care and even strangers some time. Hopefully you are never in a situation where you are unarmed, and facing 5 or 6 assailants. If you are, hopefully someone like me happens along.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That would depend on many things. Small little female, big large dude. What do you suggest an equalizer be?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

If a guy is beating his wife or g/f and threatening her with death/harm,adding guns into the situation is not an answer.

Get out,get w/ the cops, a zillion other things other than "here`s a gun".

If someone wants to take on a gun and it`s awesome liabilities, that`s fine.

Advising someone that a gun will help in a DV situation isn`t an answer and is irresponsible.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 62

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:54:01 PM

allyC

Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The automobile analogy really doesn't work.....yet you guys keep dragging that tired line out.

Who is "you guys?"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 63

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:56:35 PM

Marc2b

Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
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I don’t give a crap about statistics. I’ve the right to posses firearms and if any low life piece of shit threatens me or those near and dear to me then he is going to get a 12 gauge slug in his ass… that is, if he wises up in a hurry.

_____________________________

Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

(in reply to Demogorgon)

Post #: 64

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 9:59:31 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Guns are tools that make things die. A free people should have the right to own them. Discuss.

I think people should have a right to own them. I can see wanting one to protect your home (and family) and/or business if you have a shop or a store. But I don't think people should be walking around with them.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 65

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 10:36:31 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The automobile analogy really doesn't work.....yet you guys keep dragging that tired line out.

Who is "you guys?"

Well who pulled out that tired old analogy......there you go.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to allyC)

Post #: 66

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 10:46:30 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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I do. Going through it with my girl now. Is why I also bought another shotgun. One for upstairs and downstairs now. Many people do not have a fucking clue of the psychological hold that occurs sometimes, and of the obsessive behavior of some people when stalking someone. Yeah the cops did a grand job. Arrested the guy, he violated bail four different times by continuing to contact her and try to find out where she was. After a felony conviction, 10 years suspended sentence, with part of it being no contact. Now he just uses the anonymity of the internet to get around proving it is him. PTSD hits her bad, and if the asshole ever shows up and I have justifiable reason, my girl will not live in fear anymore.

Some people just don't have a clue, and they can go bugger themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In many cases, the woman possessing a firearm after she's left, isn't a terrible idea. You guys have no idea of how often she'll be stalked or threatened even after she's out of the situation.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 67

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 11:13:11 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Maybe we're interpreting the hypothetical differently, but...

Okay. I took what you said more as an offhand comment, without correctly tying it to the specific details of that particular hypothetical.

K.

No worries. I don't believe I've ever seen you misunderstand someone before, but it's bound to happen to everyone once in a while. I figured that had to be what happened.

_____________________________

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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 68

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 11:24:36 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Guns are tools that make things die. A free people should have the right to own them. Discuss.

How about....?

US health care is something which leaves people to die. A free people should have the right to access it.

Discuss.

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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 69

RE: No need to hijack - 4/4/2009 11:31:08 PM

allyC

Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The automobile analogy really doesn't work.....yet you guys keep dragging that tired line out.

Who is "you guys?"

Well who pulled out that tired old analogy......there you go.

Actually "I" (singular) used the analogy and I don't "keep dragging" it out so please, when you reply to me, don't lump me into some group that you have a beef with okay? Well wishes,
Cav's ally

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 70

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 12:46:35 AM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

No worries. I don't believe I've ever seen you misunderstand someone before, but it's bound to happen to everyone once in a while. I figured that had to be what happened.

Thanks...

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/5/2009 12:51:19 AM >

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 71

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 5:13:53 AM

Bella1965

Posts: 285
Joined: 12/12/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

G'morning all:

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Guns are tools that make things die.

Just a thought... Guns don't kill people. They're an inanimate object. People kill people. Amazing how folks confuse those simple precepts.

As to gun control issues; do you think the crooks really give a flying fig about the laws? Pffft. Nope, not one bit. So, it really only makes it harder on the average citizen seeking to utilize their constitutionally protected right to bear arms. Or arm bears. *shrugs*

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 72

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 5:25:25 AM

KaineD

Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

The problem is not guns, but a culture that promotes violence as a solution.

We see "violence as a solution" in movies, on TV, in lyrics. The glorification, and hence desensitization, of people from a young age to violence is where we find the root cause of what everyone wants to call "gun violence."

It is easier to blame a symptom rather than address the root cause.

Oh that is such complete and utter nonsense.

Every western nation has violence in movies, tvs, video games, lyrics. But you don't see school shootings in France, do you?

Blaming the media is so cheap and doesn't get anywhere near the root cause of what is almost exclusively an American problem.

(in reply to Crush)

Post #: 73

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 5:26:59 AM

KaineD

Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

America - the country where the ownership of firearms is a right, but healthcare is a privilege.

Something is very wrong there.

Perhaps you would be more comfortable in....ohhh, let's say.... England.

I'm pretty comfortable where I am, thanks. I love my free healthcare. The Troubles are over, we don't hand guns out like they're candy, so that's another thing I don't have to worry about.

(in reply to xBullx)

Post #: 74

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 5:31:39 AM

KaineD

Posts: 497
Joined: 2/14/2006
Status: offline

Another shooting.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/19094064/detail.html

quote:

Harper said Poplawski was wearing a bulletproof vest, armed with an assault-style rifle, a pistol and a significant amount of ammunition, as he fired rounds out of his window toward police officers.

Why is a man like that able to get his hands on an assault-style rifle?

(in reply to KaineD)

Post #: 75

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 5:53:21 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The automobile analogy really doesn't work.....yet you guys keep dragging that tired line out.

Who is "you guys?"

Well who pulled out that tired old analogy......there you go.

Actually "I" (singular) used the analogy and I don't "keep dragging" it out so please, when you reply to me, don't lump me into some group that you have a beef with okay? Well wishes,
Cav's ally

Well here'as how it works.....when you enter a discussioin that has two main points of view and give yours....odds are you will come down in one camp or the other.Now in your case,using a really tired automobile ananlogy,you came down in the pro- guns camp.....see,now your(singular) one of them(group) for the purposes of this discussion only....nothing personal just a divided discussion that has two camps and very little middle ground.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to allyC)

Post #: 76

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 7:27:00 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

But you don't see school shootings in France, do you?

          You don't pay much attention to the news, do you, Kaine?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/20/french-nursery-school-sho_n_177303.html

         There also seem to be a lot more riots in France. Then we have that treasured history of the mob chopping people's heads off.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to KaineD)

Post #: 77

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 7:51:14 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

People act as if the gun is a magic button.

Not everyone has the gumption to shot/kill and then the gun gets taken and the vic is shot or pistol whipped,etc.

She can`t walk around with in her hand all day as if was ass hole repellent.

Everyone`s got to sleep at some point.

Get out and get help.That`s the advise to give vulnerable people.Not get a gun.

I think we're barking up different trees, Owner. As i said to Kirata, my understanding of the hypothetical is that we're specifically talking about a woman who's being beaten and whose life is in immediate danger. My answer reflects that interpretation. If we're speaking in more general terms, about a woman who's in an abusive relationship and wants to carry a gun for extra security, that's a little different. As i said, it's certainly not something I'd universally suggest to every woman. In my understanding of the hypothetical, the gun is not a "magic button," but an absolute last resort for a woman who may have only seconds to live unless she kills her attacker.

The problem with hypos is that they limit the possibilities.And since any number of a trillion things can happen,anything is possible.

Just like w/ the phony arguments supporting the use of torture with the "if this" or "if that" pretext, saying~"if" people could be saved by torturing,would you do it?~

What about an "if" question like,"if the woman you recommended getting a gun shoots herself,would you do it".

Or,"if the son or daughter,niece or nephew of the bartered wife ends up getting shot after a gun is brought into the home,would you recommend getting one"?

The problem comes from folks mixing the domestic violence debate with the 2nd amendment debate, with pro gun types believing guns solve DV problems.They don`t.They destroy families in the blink of an eye.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 78

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 7:53:10 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

~FR~

The Supreme Court has ruled that licensing for Firearms is not a restriction, or infringement based upon the Constitution. I would not have a problem that someone must have a license, maybe even a safety course certificate, to purchase a handgun. I do not believe the same should apply to rifles and shotguns, because no one is going to carry those around in their pocket. Now on the classification of rifles, I see no problem with that licensing being required for real assault weapons either.

This allows the right to be maintained, yet regulate that right for public safety issues. Does this seem like a compromise that would satisfy the majority of both camps?

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 79

RE: No need to hijack - 4/5/2009 7:56:23 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Sometimes those families are destroyed because the female could not defend herself. I do not believe guns are the solution to Domestic Violence, but they are an equalizer a smaller person can use when faced with imminent bodily injury from a physically larger attacker.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

The problem comes from folks mixing the domestic violence debate with the 2nd amendment debate, with pro gun types believing guns solve DV problems.They don`t.They destroy families in the blink of an eye.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 80

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