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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 5:26:09 AM   
IrishMist


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I am sorry to hear that TheRose4U



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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 6:46:00 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Rejection?

Sure, during the getting to know each other part, after a face-to-face lunch or dinner meeting part, only twice though after training or ownership started.

Sometimes things just have to end -- different jobs, family problems, whatever. I think what the OP is asking though is about rejection as in the submissive says "you aren't the one for me anymore". If that's correct, then its happened to me twice.

Once after many three or four training sessions and that person said I was too intense. The odd thing is that if that hurt me too much I don't remember, I don't even remeber that person's name (which does suggest it did hurt me so I pushed the memory aside). However about five years after this, once I had moved from NYC to where I am now, I got a gift via Amazon.com and a letter from this person that basically said he'd been foolish to do that and now he wished he hadn't. I just sent back an email and that said "we have to do what is best for us at the time; thanks for remembering me". Never heard from him again, never wanted to hear from him again.

There has been one BIG rejection that is sort complicated so hang and see how well I can explain. I trained this young man for four months and we clicked so well that we decided to sign an ownership contract. Now he wanted more ritual and rules than I am naturally inclined to have but it didn't hurt me so I did.

To complicate matters further he had a wife. They were poly, we are poly, the four of us actually did things together -- dinners, house work, movies, the wife and I even started an exercise program together.

The problem that led to this man suddenly dumping me in a very strange fashion had nothing to do with me and everything to do with his marriage. Turns out their poly wasn't very honest or open and that was creating problems for them. Turns out, he lied to her about our rules and rituals when she said she didn't like them (told her they were my requirements). Turns out, she was feeling jealous and he wasn't taking care of her as I think he should. She demanded he chose between me and her (something I would never think of myself).

To make a long story short, it killed off my ability to scene for a couple of months and it shock our faith in friendships. But a very nice friend of mind got me back into scening and he turned out to be one of the nicest owner-slave relationships I've had the privilege of being in.

The result of both of these rejections have changed me, as I think all rejections do.

First, if someone thinks I am too intense, they are not the right person for me. I actually start off harder now right from the start to weed out folks like this.

Second, I don't add rituals or rules I don't thoroughly enjoy or desire.

Third, I am very very very very wary of anyone currently in a relationship. I demand to meet the partner and to have an honest, private talk with her (its only been hers so far) before I'll even meet face-to-face with the wouldbe. I highly doubt I will ever go beyond playing or training with a married person -- it would take a lot of work and time on the part of that other family to convince me it was worth the risk.

The results have been mixed to say the least.

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 6:51:52 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you tammyjo, as always well stated, and many learnings here for everyone.

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 7:12:37 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Third, I am very very very very wary of anyone currently in a relationship. I demand to meet the partner and to have an honest, private talk with her (its only been hers so far) before I'll even meet face-to-face with the wouldbe. I highly doubt I will ever go beyond playing or training with a married person -- it would take a lot of work and time on the part of that other family to convince me it was worth the risk.

The results have been mixed to say the least.


I think your experience here indicates the dividing line between two different forms of poly if each could even be considered "poly."

Poly #1: What you seem to have: fully open, wild, right in front of one another. Partners know everything, see everything, and are fine.

Poly #2: More discreet. Partners have an agreement and boudaries, but they do not share and go into (in great detail) what is happening with a third party.

Its unreasonable to expect the #2's to be able to act like #1s. The #2s have more of a silent trust going as opposed to an open trust. For #2s, too much openess is hurtful and destabilizaing.

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 8:36:24 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

I find it amazing though that not many Dom/mes have come forth and said, yeah, on occasion I was yesterday's news---interesting---

<snipped>
But I guess it seems I am the only one that this happened to--no I am the only one strong enough to admit it---



*Smile* Goodness, Hathor...give us a chance to get online and read! LOL

Of course I have been rejected. When John had his control issues and wanted to "re-negotiate" I simply said there was nothing up for re-negotiation. He did have a contract, everything was clearly spelled out, and he had signed it. He then asked for release, and since he needed to see his parents he asked that I remove his collar, (a week early) so they wouldn't see and question. Now this was a beautiful, and, I might add, expensive gold chain. But since he was never in the habit of wearing any jewelry, he was concerned there would be questions. I acceded to this wish, as I am never out to deliberately hurt anyone, and the immediate change was incredibly hurtful. We had a M/s relationship, and he became surly, disrespectful and completely cold & withdrawn. He did finish up one task for Me that week (I am so nice I allowed him to stay for an additional 7 days so he could get an apartment and move), but otherwise he acted like a "I barely know you but we are roomates for this short period of time" and was nothing short of rude. In looking back on it now, I realize he was feeling very guilty and this was his way of dealing with the embarrassment. But it certainly did not make that week any easier for Me at the time!
I also got the apologetic email a few months later, with an offer to serve. The same control issues were present, so I refused to re-establish any sort of relationship, but I did, at a later date, speak with another Lady when he was being considered for training, and I was happy to do so. I wish him only the best.
For the present, I am more often rejected via email or phone. Sometimes the rejection is as simple as the fact that I drive a 2000 Nissan Sentra, rather than a Mercedes (I am not kidding you!) and I am not independently wealthy (I am still not kidding you! What say all you boys who are rabid about the money issue to that!). or, one time, because he suddenly realized I am a smoker. But I expect the rejections are mainly because I am quite firm in My expectations, and it is more than most of the boys who contact Me can handle. I do seek a slaveboy, afterall. They never want to be quite that much of a slave, and do, in fact, want more of a 50-50 deal. I avoid a lot by meeting for coffee or a meal, speaking on the phone and getting things very clear from the get go. Things may seem very promising via email and the telephone, but a F2F is the best way to know if things should be taken any further. And I try to do that as quickly as possible. Saves both sides from extra time and grief. I also have a firm policy of no major scene and, most definitely, no sex, even during a trial. I concentrate on service. I was rejected by one boy who came for a trial of one week. He traveled quite a distance, and the rejection was mutual, but he said it first. No harm, no foul, on either side.
So maybe I am sabotaging Myself by being so firm, but the boy comes to Me (I do not travel to the boy), the boy meets Me (if local) for coffee or a meal and the boy pays the check. If they are willing to do that much, then I feel there is a better shot at something working out. And if it doesn't, then we found out quickly enough to minimze the disappointment.
Just My take on things here.
I do wish you the best on your upcoming visit. My thoughts will be with you.


< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 1/30/2006 8:43:15 AM >

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 9:09:00 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
First, if someone thinks I am too intense, they are not the right person for me. I actually start off harder now right from the start to weed out folks like this.


At a quick glance this sounds like you do not back off a bit to a level your sub can handle, and you do not train your sub to get up to your intensity level? where everything is a go no go and nothing inbetween.

It seems to me that the guy should have at least tried to negotiate this with you rather than dropping a bomb on you.

r1

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 9:53:50 AM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		As always GoddessDusty, you are filled with wisdom, I have missed your posts, welcome back.

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 10:57:06 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		In reading a few more posts here in this thread and others i am taking note of a gargantuous issue that seems to be popping up over and over.

i really do not see the correlation between being dominant and rigid. The two simply are not synonomous.

When a relationship becomes nothing more then a business agreement the greater the likelihood it will be short lived. People switch jobs every day.

Companies hire and fire based upon their needs. People are brought in or dismissed based on job performance, or the companies bottom line without concern for the feelings of the individuals involved.

On the other hand in nilla land people join in LTR partnership to share feelings, emotions and often get married based upon a life committment to one another to always be there for one another.

Its one thing to sign a contract so everyone can go back to a solid foundation of what was originally agreed upon as a starting point to work from and it is entirely another to use it as an axe.

Once a contract is used as an axe over anothers head that will drench any fire either domme or sub and failure to renegotiate that contract most often always ends up in separation.

i fail to understand how people can put bdsm in a business relationship status and then feel badly when they are treated like a business commodity themselves?

Businesses do not negotiate your job requirements, its their way or the hiway. Most corporate situations employees handle themselves in the same manner the businesses do. No negotiations just hand in the resignation and on to the next.

Likewise a disgruntled employee could care less about the company beyond whats in it for the employee and what they are getting out of it. So its fair game for both employers and employees to dump each other for any reason. The same holds true when any personal relationship is nothing more than a business arrangement.


The problem is that typically one person or the other will become deeply attached even though it is really only a business relationship, and now the playing field is no longer level.

So now the person seeing it as a business relationship with little or no emotional attachment decides to bug out because something is not doing precisely what they want regardless if its domme or sub and the person who has feelings for the other is naturally hurt. but not rightfully as they entered into a business relationship and should expect no more.

In a business arrangement there is no need for any significant personal sacrifice on anyones part domme or sub. as long as each party follow the contract and life never changes every one is happy.

In business you do what is expected of you and nothing more, nothing less. there is no need to do that little extra to make your smile. Why? It goes unnoticed anyway. i treat my dog better than some dom(mes) treat their subs or slaves! i praise my dog anytime she does good and that dog will do anything for me. my dog loves to make me happy because at the same moment i reflect that happiness back to the dog.

What D/s business oriented relationship does that? None that i have seen. They are here under contract, you signed, you do it, done deal. Dont expect any special thanks and this better be in your core and you better be thrilled with this and wake up every day to only to serve a thankless contract! sigh...........

Is that reality?

In reality things are constantly changing. moods change, health changes, what turns you on changes. How many of you still get off on the same exact things that got you off as a teen? i would bet not to many.

Point being life is fluid and constantly changing and likewise relationships evolve and grow and change and because of this contracts need to change and be re-negotiated from time to time if people wish to have stability in their relationships. Within reason of course, not all the way back to nilla land as that would be unfair but at least to some degree of compromise.

i for one, from observation, believe that if people have a good nilla relationship as their primary foundation, bdsm as a secondary aspect of their lives, as a rule these people will share a much greater chance of success to create a stable long term relationship in which both provide each other with many years control and service.

i think treating interpersonal relationships like a business is a nothing more than a recipe for disaster.

You can seduce me into an interpersonal relationship with hugs kisses and spankings praise and bdsm etc but you will never sell me on a bdsm business arrangement.

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 11:19:04 AM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		RealOne,
I am going to quickly address this since you refer to contracts several times, so I must assume (while hopefully not making an ass out of you and Me) that you are referring to My post.
I am firm (not rigid) in My expectations. I am not seeking a fall in love. If it happens, it happens. I am predisposed to M/s relationships, not D/s relationships. And there is a difference. If that is not what you want, then so be it. Don't presume to judge. I am clear as to what I seek. I will not bend to a boys wishes, unless it suits My purposes. If that makes Me a bad Domina in your eyes, then you should be happy that I am not your Domina.
A contract is important to Me as it spells out certain expectations, rules and regulations at the outset. It is up to the boy whether or not he wishes to sign it. I am not "rigid" in all things, but you are assuming that this was something minor, and it was not. And that is My business. And John's. Not yours.
I like to look at the profiles of people who post, and I tried to see yours.
But there is no profile. Why is that?

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 11:23:21 AM   
seaturtle50


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quote:

So maybe I am sabotaging Myself by being so firm, but the boy comes to Me (I do not travel to the boy), the boy meets Me (if local) for coffee or a meal and the boy pays the check. If they are willing to do that much, then I feel there is a better shot at something working out. And if it doesn't, then we found out quickly enough to minimze the disappointment.


From the perspective of a novice sub, i do hope that the Domme's will not find it necessary to settle in any way, or lessen Their own standards in terms of Their desires or Their understanding of the proper order of things. This sub is most intoxicated by Your certainty and the challenge of rising to meet such expectations, as it should be.
st50

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 12:36:31 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		seaturtle,

As a relative newbie to this lifestyle, I think you might be quite surprised at how often so many of us are expected to compromise, settle, and otherwise bend to the wishes of the boy. This is why it is not that easy to find the right boy. I get many offers, but few are chosen for a continuation of exploration.
I am a kind and understanding Lady, but I do have My expectations. For those who feel it is unfair, or too skewed toward the Dominas needs and wants, I can only say get out of D/s. Or stay for the play, and identify yourself honestly as a bottom. I'm not sure who said it was supposed to be fair, except in the sense that a sincerely, deep in the heart submissive is, in fact, getting what he wants by serving the Domina.
For the others who seem to think that there should be some sort of "I'll scratch your back, if you'll scratch mine", that is not going to fly with Me. And perhaps I am more different than others. I have said in the past, and I stick to it: If I wanted that sort of relationship, I can get married tomorrow.
So continue to bring on the rejections! My previous profile (I am not actively seeking at this time) was quite in depth and couldn't have been more clear as to My expectations. And I still received incredible amounts of mail that weren't even close to the ability to meet those expectations. Those boys didn't even want to try to meet those expectations. But they sure did want to try to convince Me that I should change My expectations to meet their's.
Ah yes, seaturtle...Many Dominas I know constantly deal with the fact that we are expected to settle for less. Fortunately, most of us don't.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 1/30/2006 12:38:05 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to seaturtle50)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 12:46:30 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm detecting a subtle general difference between the way male subs and female subs respond to dominants. From reading posts by Dusty and others, I get the sense that male subs try to negotiate their own thing and blame the domme for being intransigent if they can't get her to accept what they want. In my experience, female subs do that a lot less. They just decide whether the dom is offering what they want, and either submit or move on to someone else. That's not to say female subs never manipulate or top from the bottom, but to me they seem much less inclined to challenge the dom's expectations overtly.

But these are generalizations, of course.

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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 1:29:52 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Actually Lordandmaster, speaking from a female submissive view...you are pretty much right...I see someone, I decide if he fits or not...if he does not..I move on...thinking about now, its really quite a shameful way to act...in the respect that we probably don't take the time to get to know someone, and maybe do some compromising.



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RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 2:19:44 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm detecting a subtle general difference between the way male subs and female subs respond to dominants. From reading posts by Dusty and others, I get the sense that male subs try to negotiate their own thing and blame the domme for being intransigent if they can't get her to accept what they want. In my experience, female subs do that a lot less. They just decide whether the dom is offering what they want, and either submit or move on to someone else. That's not to say female subs never manipulate or top from the bottom, but to me they seem much less inclined to challenge the dom's expectations overtly.

But these are generalizations, of course.



I am going to agree here with LordandMaster---now this is not a submissive bashing, but many male submissives for the most part to try to cajole to get what they want--they start out saying they will give all, then it becomes a fencing lesson--and when the Domina/Domme refuses, its whining all the way, then we go from Yes Mistress to You bitch---smiles, becoming a faker or wannabe, which tells Me they really haven't made the switch from societal norms to allow the control--and that to Me is not compromise.

And I'd rather do without then as Goddess stated, end up with what I could have in a vanilla marriage or a friend with benefits. That does not mean I am against compromise, but it has to be on both sides.


quote:

So maybe I am sabotaging Myself by being so firm, but the boy comes to Me (I do not travel to the boy), the boy meets Me (if local) for coffee or a meal and the boy pays the check. If they are willing to do that much, then I feel there is a better shot at something working out. And if it doesn't, then we found out quickly enough to minimze the disappointment.
Just My take on things here.


Not a contradiction, just s different perspective--I do travel to the boy as I have a home, unmentionable and life to protect, so its the excop in Me to protect that.


quote:

I do wish you the best on your upcoming visit. My thoughts will be with you.


Thank you GoddessDusty, you have been an inspiration to Me for a long time--I am very excited as we both are--in just 2 days W/we will meet--

The soul would have no rainbow had the eye no tear--the tears are gone, I travel to the warmth of the rainbow.


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Mistress Hathor


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 2:47:25 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm detecting a subtle general difference between the way male subs and female subs respond to dominants. From reading posts by Dusty and others, I get the sense that male subs try to negotiate their own thing and blame the domme for being intransigent if they can't get her to accept what they want. In my experience, female subs do that a lot less. They just decide whether the dom is offering what they want, and either submit or move on to someone else. That's not to say female subs never manipulate or top from the bottom, but to me they seem much less inclined to challenge the dom's expectations overtly.

But these are generalizations, of course.


It is a generalization, LaM, but one that basically holds true. This puts Me in mind of a previous thread which brought up the point that femsubs are responded to differently than male subs here on the boards. And I think this might be the exact reason. We already detect the control or attempt to control via a whiney complaint which then begins to feed itself into a frenzy of "poor boys and bad Dommes!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

I am going to agree here with LordandMaster---now this is not a submissive bashing, but many male submissives for the most part to try to cajole to get what they want--they start out saying they will give all, then it becomes a fencing lesson--and when the Domina/Domme refuses, its whining all the way, then we go from Yes Mistress to You bitch---smiles, becoming a faker or wannabe, which tells Me they really haven't made the switch from societal norms to allow the control--and that to Me is not compromise.

And I'd rather do without then as Goddess stated, end up with what I could have in a vanilla marriage or a friend with benefits. That does not mean I am against compromise, but it has to be on both sides.


Well said, Hathor. This is precisely what happens all too often. So we just smile and move on.
Didn't someone once say you aren't really a Twue Domme until you have been called a fake at least 5 times? *WEG*



_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 4:25:53 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
RealOne,
I am going to quickly address this since you refer to contracts several times, so I must assume (while hopefully not making an ass out of you and Me) that you are referring to My post.

Hey no rush on my behalf.
No your post is not the "one" that triggered my response, but it was in the batch of them that i read where the emphasis was on contracts ie: business relationships, so i suppose you could technically say your post did play a 1 in 50 part in my response.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am firm (not rigid) in My expectations. I am not seeking a fall in love. If it happens, it happens. I am predisposed to M/s relationships, not D/s relationships. And there is a difference.


My post clearly indicates the differences between a cold pragmatic business relationship vs a warm interpersonal relationship and what to expect from both.

a business relationship concentrates on one thing: the letter of the law and is cold in its execution of that process. whereas a loving m/s or any/s relationship concentrates on the spirit of the law and it has the same result only affords both parties the security of knowing they are highly valued to one another not just a commodity, and each work toward a giving each other the life they want in this lifestyle.

In the business relationship in this lifestyle you have one person who demands usually without giving anything back. Being in the wonderful presence of a domme is a great line but only lasts till the newness wears off and the sub relalizes there is nothing in it for them.

Relationships are a 2 way street that is often forgotten in this lifestyle, especially by those who lean to the extreme.

If a dominant wants a strictly no brainer business relationship thats described in 3 lines on paper well thats everyones option of course. that way they never have a need to be creative and never need to think. just throw the paper at them and everything is settled.

i could care less how you run your life dusty. and frankly i have no idea why you took it personally as i did not quote anything that any one said as well as made this a general post. so whats up with that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
If that is not what you want, then so be it.

you got that right. i have no reason to subject myself to that kind of sh*t on me inanimate treatment. at least as far as those that i have met thats the way it is with 99.999% of them that seek this kind of relationship, just want a little robot who is not a doormat. ah huh.

i did run into one woman who i would have been thrilled to do m/s with however there were other issues that made it impossible for us to be together.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Don't presume to judge.

First off this post was not directed at you specifically unless of course you feel the things i said applied to you then i can understand your saying this.

Telling me not to judge is telling me to turn off my mind. i judge everything around me as do you. you judged that i posted this as a result of your post. and you are about 1/50th correct. i do not turn my mind off for anyone and i will certainly continue to judge the world around me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am clear as to what I seek. I will not bend to a boys wishes, unless it suits My purposes. If that makes Me a bad Domina in your eyes, then you should be happy that I am not your Domina.

Well there you go. Just like any corporation i have worked for.

Unlike my personal relationships, they didnt bend and neither did i. Thats business baby! i just left when they did not offer me commensurate treatment. If someone appproaches me with a business attitude, being a businessman my business hat immediately goes on. and in the case of business oriented relationships which are mostly desired by pro or semi pro dommes, and married women, i am ready to talk turkey. and they talk to me about getting 3 fetishes for my time and i laugh. or i am supposed to wake up every day with just them on my mind and all they have to offer is i get to serve them? good way to insult my intelligence. but on the other hand there is a sucker born every day. at least for a while. most of these kinds of relationships are revolving doors only lasting a couple, maybe few years on a good day then the hunt starts for another sucker.

Now give me a woman who is creative and understands how to intermingle a loving anything/s relationship and is willing to equally invest her ""heart"" and she will get all that from me in spades and without asking. and finding that is even more rare!
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
A contract is important to Me as it spells out certain expectations, rules and regulations at the outset. It is up to the boy whether or not he wishes to sign it.

sure they do and as i said in my post, stick it up someones butt and pound on the table and you are more than likely to have no more slave. a contract that is anything more than a guideline to work from becomes a noose around anothers neck when its thrown in their face. i have yet to see one of these contracts that also include the dominants responsibilities to the slave? After all we are talking business now. or like most people who are in it this extreme thier responsibilities end at: "i wont kill you" at least not on purpose. there are a few who offer a reasonably good life but that is not the norm from what i have seen.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am not "rigid" in all things, but you are assuming that this was something minor, and it was not. And that is My business. And John's. Not yours.

looks like you are becoming more rigid as you write dusty! above you said you are not rigid and here you say you are not rigid in "all" things. (couldnt help that) :)

if you are rigid in most things or some things then it seems to me one could legitimately claim you are rigid.

My post has nothing to do with who or what or why or you or john or jill. that is not the point. the whole point of that post was to illustrate what one can expect from the different style relationships.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I like to look at the profiles of people who post, and I tried to see yours. But there is no profile. Why is that?

If you mean when you click on it and nothing comes up i have no clu, if you know do tell. If you mean why it is blank, well been here long enough to know that i prefer doing my own hunting.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 4:26:58 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
First, if someone thinks I am too intense, they are not the right person for me. I actually start off harder now right from the start to weed out folks like this.


At a quick glance this sounds like you do not back off a bit to a level your sub can handle, and you do not train your sub to get up to your intensity level? where everything is a go no go and nothing inbetween.

It seems to me that the guy should have at least tried to negotiate this with you rather than dropping a bomb on you.

r1


It means that I'm 100% honest about what I'm looking for and what I physically enjoy doing.

Only a fool would start off on the hardest flogging and not build up.

I just don't play games about what I'm looking for. I can negotiate some things but not others. I've learned not to negotiate what is important for me physically or emotionally.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 4:35:08 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Once one is in a relationship then you should communicate. Again only a fool would think that people and situations will stay the same always.

But when relationships are starting out, you set up rules and limits so that you can see whether or not there is any point to creating a relationship that goes deeper.

Let me give you an example of this starting point. When I negotiate to see if there will be a training contract, I give the potential submissive a huge list of activities. I have him/her fill it out and then we talk about it face-to-face. I do not offer my own opinions about any activity on that list until the potential is done talking and I have paraphrased back what was said and feel I understand them.

I do this because I noticed that someone would change their feelings about something if they knew how I felt about it. I would do them and I a disservice if I gave my interests out too much in advance. I want to honestly know what they desire, need, fear, have as limits so that I can evaluate and he/she can evaluate if there will be a next step.

Yes, I do actually see this very much as a job interview.

Since I'm looking for long-term slaves I'm much more interested in their needs and desires, limits and abilities unclouded by romantic notions.

My best romances have come from this approach (vanilla and kinky) because they grew from similar interests, similar needs, and similar goals.


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 4:41:08 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I'm detecting a subtle general difference between the way male subs and female subs respond to dominants. From reading posts by Dusty and others, I get the sense that male subs try to negotiate their own thing and blame the domme for being intransigent if they can't get her to accept what they want. In my experience, female subs do that a lot less. They just decide whether the dom is offering what they want, and either submit or move on to someone else. That's not to say female subs never manipulate or top from the bottom, but to me they seem much less inclined to challenge the dom's expectations overtly.

But these are generalizations, of course.


Yes but there is subtle but distinct differences in dominants also. you wont find to many pro male doms and you will find that many of the female domme respondents on this forum are pro or have a pro background.

i may stand corrected but i dont think there are to many male doms that seek females based on how well they can support the male dom or pay tribute as part of the package as for the pros.

i think the demands that male doms put on female subs are considerably different than the demands that female dommes put on males and likewise i think there is a big difference the way males are treated by a female domme versus the way females are treated by a male dom.

i think females have less they need to negotiate

more than meets the eye imo

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: When You are the One rejected - 1/30/2006 6:00:51 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
RealOne,
I am going to quickly address this since you refer to contracts several times, so I must assume (while hopefully not making an ass out of you and Me) that you are referring to My post.

Hey no rush on my behalf.
No your post is not the "one" that triggered my response, but it was in the batch of them that i read where the emphasis was on contracts ie: business relationships, so i suppose you could technically say your post did play a 1 in 50 part in my response.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am firm (not rigid) in My expectations. I am not seeking a fall in love. If it happens, it happens. I am predisposed to M/s relationships, not D/s relationships. And there is a difference.


My post clearly indicates the differences between a cold pragmatic business relationship vs a warm interpersonal relationship and what to expect from both.

a business relationship concentrates on one thing: the letter of the law and is cold in its execution of that process. whereas a loving m/s or any/s relationship concentrates on the spirit of the law and it has the same result only affords both parties the security of knowing they are highly valued to one another not just a commodity, and each work toward a giving each other the life they want in this lifestyle.

In the business relationship in this lifestyle you have one person who demands usually without giving anything back. Being in the wonderful presence of a domme is a great line but only lasts till the newness wears off and the sub relalizes there is nothing in it for them.

Relationships are a 2 way street that is often forgotten in this lifestyle, especially by those who lean to the extreme.

If a dominant wants a strictly no brainer business relationship thats described in 3 lines on paper well thats everyones option of course. that way they never have a need to be creative and never need to think. just throw the paper at them and everything is settled.

i could care less how you run your life dusty. and frankly i have no idea why you took it personally as i did not quote anything that any one said as well as made this a general post. so whats up with that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
If that is not what you want, then so be it.

you got that right. i have no reason to subject myself to that kind of sh*t on me inanimate treatment. at least as far as those that i have met thats the way it is with 99.999% of them that seek this kind of relationship, just want a little robot who is not a doormat. ah huh.

i did run into one woman who i would have been thrilled to do m/s with however there were other issues that made it impossible for us to be together.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
Don't presume to judge.

First off this post was not directed at you specifically unless of course you feel the things i said applied to you then i can understand your saying this.

Telling me not to judge is telling me to turn off my mind. i judge everything around me as do you. you judged that i posted this as a result of your post. and you are about 1/50th correct. i do not turn my mind off for anyone and i will certainly continue to judge the world around me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am clear as to what I seek. I will not bend to a boys wishes, unless it suits My purposes. If that makes Me a bad Domina in your eyes, then you should be happy that I am not your Domina.

Well there you go. Just like any corporation i have worked for.

Unlike my personal relationships, they didnt bend and neither did i. Thats business baby! i just left when they did not offer me commensurate treatment. If someone appproaches me with a business attitude, being a businessman my business hat immediately goes on. and in the case of business oriented relationships which are mostly desired by pro or semi pro dommes, and married women, i am ready to talk turkey. and they talk to me about getting 3 fetishes for my time and i laugh. or i am supposed to wake up every day with just them on my mind and all they have to offer is i get to serve them? good way to insult my intelligence. but on the other hand there is a sucker born every day. at least for a while. most of these kinds of relationships are revolving doors only lasting a couple, maybe few years on a good day then the hunt starts for another sucker.

Now give me a woman who is creative and understands how to intermingle a loving anything/s relationship and is willing to equally invest her ""heart"" and she will get all that from me in spades and without asking. and finding that is even more rare!
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
A contract is important to Me as it spells out certain expectations, rules and regulations at the outset. It is up to the boy whether or not he wishes to sign it.

sure they do and as i said in my post, stick it up someones butt and pound on the table and you are more than likely to have no more slave. a contract that is anything more than a guideline to work from becomes a noose around anothers neck when its thrown in their face. i have yet to see one of these contracts that also include the dominants responsibilities to the slave? After all we are talking business now. or like most people who are in it this extreme thier responsibilities end at: "i wont kill you" at least not on purpose. there are a few who offer a reasonably good life but that is not the norm from what i have seen.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I am not "rigid" in all things, but you are assuming that this was something minor, and it was not. And that is My business. And John's. Not yours.

looks like you are becoming more rigid as you write dusty! above you said you are not rigid and here you say you are not rigid in "all" things. (couldnt help that) :)

if you are rigid in most things or some things then it seems to me one could legitimately claim you are rigid.

My post has nothing to do with who or what or why or you or john or jill. that is not the point. the whole point of that post was to illustrate what one can expect from the different style relationships.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
I like to look at the profiles of people who post, and I tried to see yours. But there is no profile. Why is that?

If you mean when you click on it and nothing comes up i have no clu, if you know do tell. If you mean why it is blank, well been here long enough to know that i prefer doing my own hunting.



Well, golly, gosh, darn it all anyway. My faux pas. I missed the part about other threads. Seems I did make and ass out of you and Me.
When I said quickly, I mean a relatively short and to the point reply. Not that I was in a hurry to answer you. See how quickly we can misconstrue the written word?
I did make an assumption since you seemed to be directly referring to contracts and negotiation. I continue to state that certain things are non-negotiable with Me. And I am not talking about areas of play.
Unless there have been major changes to this board in the few weeks I was out of town and out of touch, I am one of the very few Dominas who openly discusses the use of a contract in the M/s relationship. I use one. Many (most) other Ladies who have posted in the past do not. Therefore, I am surprised to hear that so much has been discussed recently regarding contracts. But I have been wrong before and I am sure I will be again. Thank you for pointing this out to Me. Could you direct Me to these new "contract" threads so I can catch up?
As to My use of the word "rigid"...please note that I did use it with quotation marks, to indicate that I was using your wording. I do not feel I am rigid at all. I do feel I am most firm in My minimum expectations, and certain things are not negotiable. It is up to the submissive whether or not he/she can live with My minimum requirements. Now I have read posts from several Doms who have the same attitude. Is it alright for them to refuse to negotiate in certain areas, but not for Me, because I am a Woman? Just wondering...
Yes, when I click on your screen name, I get the message "Profile Not Found". That is usually a good indication that someone is participating on the boards without a profile on the other side. No rules against it. Just an honest question from Me as to why you don't have one. Or perhaps you have one under another screen name? We've seen that before.

I can't finish this without making a final observation.

quote:

i could care less how you run your life dusty.


I have been seeing this expression used more and more by many on the boards lately, and it is a bit of a pet peeve of Mine. I am not the typical grammar nazi but I must point out that if you could care less, that means you do care. Because you are indicating an ability to care less about whatever the situation may be. The expression should be you couldn't care less.
Sort of like I am a Dominant, not a Dominate.

*edited to add:

quote:

i think the demands that male doms put on female subs are considerably different than the demands that female dommes put on males and likewise i think there is a big difference the way males are treated by a female domme versus the way females are treated by a male dom.

i think females have less they need to negotiate


Really? Why is that?

Are you getting all this LaM???




< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 1/30/2006 6:03:50 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 40
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