RE: High Protocol Practices

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IronBear -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/10/2009 5:11:16 PM)
There are ways and then there are ways as there are protocols and then there are protocols some considered higher, or more formal than others. Much is highly subjective. What for some is just the normal way of doing things, acting or dressing are to others very high protocol. Prior to attending any function be it within the BDSM arena, social, military or a function of State, I make it a point to find out the dress codes and the level of formality or protocol expected and if needs be who or which VIPs may be attending (This usually gives me additional information on protocol levels). Now whilst in my private life at home when veging out, I like things to occur in a natural order but in a relaxed manner whith lots of banter and teasing. I am also very comfortable in any High protool situation hasving spent a good part of my life in such areas abnd much more exacting then any likely to be found in the BDSM areas. I take the line that whilst I do and can expect those who follow the same or similar protocols themselves in their lives to know how to act at a formal function I may host. (Here it will be Victorian Era Functions), now unless such a function is exclusive for those of a Victorian (or here in Aussie early Federation period), I know there may be attending some who this is new to. I can usually have some one who will act as a guide to help anyone who is getting lost in the formalities but irrespective of this, people who attend and are new to this are My Guests and it behoves me to try to make sure they have an enjoyable experience and to, if possible, explain some of the protocols, the whys, whereforsd and the history behind them in a way which is not obvious to others (thus saving any embarrasment for the newer person) and yet without detracting anything from the function.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/10/2009 5:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Lately, I've been kind of getting this vibe that there are at least a few folks out there who have a certain stereotype in their head when they hear people mention that they enjoy high protocol or might be leather. I tend to get the impression that people make the assumption that the additional formality comes across as rude, unsociable, or other unpleasant traits. Does your perception of high protocol practices fit the stereotype that I mentioned above? What experiences have you had that led you to that conclusion? Sadly, yes, my experience does uphold the stereotype. One of the local kink groups invited a gay Leather master from a nearby city to speak about the history of the Leather community. I had the opportunity to attend that event. The man was ageist, sexist, and biased against the Goth community and just about every other group. When he started talking about the age at which "most" people enter the kink community, he stated that "no one under 30 was involved in the lifestyle." I had the pleasure of telling him (politely) that he was full of crap. Particularly, since I've been entertaining the idea of starting a TNG group in the area and have had positive feedback. It's not just the Leather community, either. I've had the opportunity to be involved in other high protocol groups and events. I don't care to go back to any of them. Any group that maintains a high level of protocol, from the Freemasons to the SCA, tends to fall into the same pattern of behavior. It's as if the formality legitimizes elitist attitudes. One of my published essays was a rant about this phenomenon. Of course, not everyone upholds the stereotype but, like most other stereotypes, it exists because a significant number of people do behave that way. It's unfortunate because it means good, kind, welcoming people have to work harder to overcome the negativity others are spreading.

FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/10/2009 6:41:00 PM)
All of this is so abstract... I grew up with access (visitors) of many different groups, and so my father was informative in terms of propriety around nuns/priests, versus familiar friends, versus heads of state... I don't recall having to do a lot more than being cordial and respectful. When I think of BDSM protocols, I think of it as abstract, because what is required in one house, may be inapropriate in another. How a slave dresses (or doesn't), positions, interactions between the people... Doesn't all of this require that the group agree and adhere to one specific set of protocols? And if that is the case, does that mean that outsiders may not infiltrate without first reading/studying the group? M

MsDDom -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/10/2009 7:20:52 PM)
i dont have any "sterotypes" concerning high protocol as i am one who likes high protocol in about 85% of my lifestyle interactions. i have not participated in the local scene (or events), but i dont mind the high protocol atmosphere. like stated, there are some that do not know or have not even been exposed to any type of protocol. so, if or when i attend an event, i am sure i will have to train my boy(s)...which i am already exposing them to all levels of protocol. sharing knowledge will definitely help people get comfortable...and those who do know (about protocol) definitely need to remain open about sharing what they know.

Zechriel -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 4:13:20 AM)
Good morning! I did so much "high protocol" in my vanilla past, living in California..hubby was in real estate..had the house..the clothes..the jewlery...it was a burden at times but I faked it well. Out here in small town Maine, I found my true self-which turned out that that part as part of me that I enjoyed-once in a while. I can still play that part but just not all the time. I imagine it would be the same in D/s-IS the same with Daddy. I like him to be strict sometimes..to micromanage me sometimes just not all the time. We both ride that balance line really well-love you Daddy!!! If I were to go to a club, it would not be hard to blend in but I would rather go with someone who already knew the ropes. Maybe it is just a matter how how much "not being yourself" or "playing a part" bothers you. There's alot of confidence involoved-confidence maybe in pulling it off? confidence that you are "the best"? That is they way it was in nilla parties, i think it would be that in D/s clubs as well. Ah well...Good luck! Love, Zechriel [sm=seesaw.gif]

Andalusite -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 2:28:58 PM)
Hi, LadyPact! I enjoyed our discussion on the other thread, and want to emphasise that I don't think that chip would do anything mean/rude. It's just that when you said that a lot of people wanted you to put their wants/needs ahead of yours in his interaction at mixed (non-high-protocol) events, I figured I'd try to explain why I would find that approach in general a bit difficult to work with. I used to be very shy, and was able to almost completely get over it. However, if someone turned away from me without replying in body language (perhaps a quick glance in your direction), I'd assume they either didn't hear me, or didn't want to talk to me. I wouldn't get mad or upset, but I'd pretty much figure the ball's in their court, and won't initiate contact until they do so first. Going to a high-protocol BDSM event would be a little like going to Catholic mass (my uncle is Catholic, and my aunt converted after they married, so I've gone for major life-event stuff). I've read a little about the history and such, and get figure out by watching other people for most of what to do, and I find the formality and ritual quite lovely. I'm a little worried that I'll say or do the wrong thing. It's not that I'm worried people are going to be actively unfriendly, or yell at me if I do mess up, but I would feel like an outsider. I've read a bit about high-protocol, but it seems to vary so much from one individual person to another, and in different parts of the country. So, I wouldn't be sure ahead of time what the rules for a particular event would be, especially since I'm a switch, and am not currently in a D/s relationship. Most of the classes and writing I've seen on it are primarily from the outlook of incorporating into one's own life/relationship, not what to do at gatherings, or else they're very on-line focused (silly stuff like s/Slashy S/speak and Weird Capitalisation of Pronouns). [;)]

LadyPact -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 3:36:38 PM)
I've been meaning to come back to this all day. Before anything else, I want to thank everyone who's responded. I had a feeling I'd get some various answers, which I appreciate because I enjoy hearing people's honest opinions on the subject. I do absolutely get that the protocol thing isn't for everyone. Trust Me, I'm not trying to convert anyone who wouldn't enjoy it. Like anything else, it fits some people and doesn't suit others, even if it's just for an afternoon or for dinner. Yes, the reason for the stereotype does exist. I'm the first person to admit that. There are asshats that come from all types. I'm even willing to accept that it means those of us who aren't might have to work harder. I'm good with that and it's one of the reasons that I am happy to step up to the plate. By the way, I've really enjoyed the analogies that some folks have used during this thread.

LovingMistress45 -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 7:24:40 PM)
So, if one wanted to learn more about high protocol, where is a good starting place?

LadyPact -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 8:03:39 PM)
This is just a personal suggestion and might not even be right for everyone. Let Me preface My statement that some types of protocols might be different within different groups. For example, what I say here might work for leather, but not for Gorean, or Victorian, or any other that could be used. With that said, here are some things that I would suggest: One good place is right here, as well as other discussions that are about high protocol. Many discussion boards cover the subject. On some other sites, there are discussion groups that are specifically related to high protocol. Go to demos, discussion munches, and other events where high protocol is a topic. Even at leather events, there are almost always classes on basics. Look especially for opportunities for interaction. Talk (or email) the folks actually organizing a high protocol event. They are the ones setting things up, so they know the rules and are more than happy to share them. Ask if there is any reading regarding the event that you can do prior to going. Most people will have a basic guide document or cheat sheet available for you. If not, ask if you can get together with them for coffee prior to the event. Ask for help from the host when you go about who is willing to give you a hand. There really are some of us who are willing to be friendly and want to assist you. We don't want you to be scared. We want you to enjoy the experience. If there's not a specific event involved, talk with someone who's opinion that you value and pick their brain about the questions you have. It can be just like a mentor on any other level. Thank you so much for that particular question. I hope I answered you adequately.

hardbodysub -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 8:14:56 PM)
I don't mind protocol per se. What I hate is mindless protocol, adopted just because it's the generally accepted way to do things. I believe protocol should be established by individuals for individuals, for good reasons, not just because "that's the way it's done."

SailingBum -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 10:53:32 PM)
never even heard of high protocol. Do ppl advertise this on flyers or something? The last event was like 6 or 7 years ago am I that much out of the loop? Thanks for any one who can answer this. Curious One

LadyPact -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/11/2009 11:20:00 PM)
Hiya SB. Actually, yes. At least they do where I'm at. The 'whatever it is' will be billed as a protocol dinner, wine tasting, or afternoon tea. On the invite, it will specify that it is a high protocol or leather event. I know that was probably a poor explanation, but I hope it answers your question.

LaTigresse -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/12/2009 7:59:35 AM)
I know the answer I am looking for is probably too varied and huge to give in totality so instead I will ask for an example. What type of thing would be an example of high protocol in this particular venue? I am used to suffering through religious high protocol.....like the long version of a catholic high mass. I have been through more military functions than I care to remember, also something I would consider high protocol. I detest both equally. Full of empty ritual and honorifics not felt sincerely nor always given to those that are deserving. Yet I suspect neither example fits the high protocol of this discussion.

junecleaver -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/12/2009 8:21:29 AM)
I like high protocol for an evening. The cheat sheets are extremely helpful along with some common sense and a good mood. A high protocol event is NOT something I'd want to do if I were in a bad mood or having an off day. Of course, there are nice people who participate probably even the majority but it does seem to attract a lot of assholes lol Fortunately, it doesn't affect the hotness level for me.

LadyPact -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/12/2009 10:56:17 AM)
LaT, I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you clarify it for Me, please?

SailingBum -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/12/2009 5:13:02 PM)
Thanks LP They prolly have them round here, I just never noticed. BadOne

LaTigresse -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/13/2009 6:49:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact LaT, I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you clarify it for Me, please? Sorry for the delay in the reply. I kept myself busy with projects around the farm this weekend. I am just curious what sort of activities make a situation high protocol in this venue. As I said, I am familiar with the specifics that make a military function high protocol, or some church services like a catholic high mass versus the laid back services of the church I grew up in. I was just looking for an example of the type of thing that makes a BDSM function high protocol. I've only ever heard vague suggestions of such, in passing, in threads here. Or if there even is anything that could be considered remotely universal. Is it all too venue/group specific? The sort of thing that someone used to a high protocol event in NYC, would be lost at a high protocol event in Atlanta?

IronBear -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/13/2009 7:42:43 AM)
Those who know the Gorean Lifestyle irrespective if they have been part of it or just seen it in action in reality, will see, at a formal occasion where Gorean Lifestylers have gathered, one form of high protocol. The formalities of address, slave positions and movements or serving methods and language. As far as the protocols of the Victorian Lifestyle, just rent out a movie based on that period especially something like "Sense and Sensibility" and "Pride and Prejudice".. That will give for thiose interested somethinmg of the lifestyle I live and the protocols I use daily, also the sort of home I grew up in.

CreativeDominant -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/13/2009 7:53:26 AM)
I've been to a couple of high protocol events staged at Uncommon Ground when it was still in existence. One was a dinner...the submissives did all the preparation and the serving, they kept their eyes down the entire time, they had positions they took when they were not in the middle of service, they did not speak unless asked a question, they addressed all dominants as either "Sir" or "Ma'am"; the dominants addressed each other by name and the submissives by the names that their owners (or the club's owners, if unowned) had given them on their name tags, all commands were stated quietly with no bullying, there was no touching of any submissive except to pat their head and praise them if they'd followed through properly on a command. There was civility and courtesy shown through speech and behavior on both sides of the whip. Etc., etc., etc.... The rules were discussed and some degree of input by the "community-at-large" was allowed before the event's date was formalized and a final sheet of details and instructions sent out. People certainly had the choice of attending but they knew that if they were to attend., this was the protocol being followed at a gathering of group members. The protocol was observed through the meal and then after the meal, there was a play party in which everyone relaxed back into their own D/s dynamic with the rules of civility and courtesy left in place for the evening. At home, in a personal setting, I like some ritual and protocol but that which would fit me and my partner as a couple...a setting that is enhanced by rituals and protocol that mean something to us but which might not to anyone else. The only protocol I would enforce for visitors to my home would be against any type of casual, sexual touching of my partner. Hug her, touch her shoulder, her back , even give her a friendly kiss but don't think because she is submissive that you can touch her ass, feel her breast, give her a full-on French kiss.

subtlebutterfly -> RE: High Protocol Practices (4/13/2009 8:01:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant One was a dinner...the submissives did all the preparation and the serving, they kept their eyes down the entire time, they had positions they took when they were not in the middle of service, they did not speak unless asked a question, they addressed all dominants as either "Sir" or "Ma'am"; no touching of any submissive except to pat their head and praise them if they'd followed through properly on a command. omg for a whole evening!!!!!!! I'd feel suicidal after 10 minutes... promises self to neva eva go to high protocol events anywhere but events that come with the job[8\|]

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