RE: Yet Another Airline Fee...

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kazzaslave -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 11:02:39 AM)
No disagreement there poen, smaller craft, smaller seats. What kazza doesn't believe is that the seats on existing larger airplanes are being changed so they can justify charging bigger people for two seats. kazza also doesn't believe obesity should be considered a disability covered under the Disabilities Act. Aren't pregnant women who are 7 months and more along not supposed to fly? Besides if you don't fit you don't fit, so you need more than one seat, it's that simple. Honestly kazza resents being squished in her seat because of someone who just doesn't fit into theirs, pushing her against the far side armrest. Look kazza isn't saying there's no room for improvement, there isn't enough footroom anyway you try it. she just doesn't believe there's this huge conspiracy to make money by changing the seats to smaller one.

BlackPhx -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 11:42:16 AM)
And I resent having my seat kicked and my ears split by small children who are miserable flying or uncontrolled. We all have our gripes. These days airlines are cutting fares, but it wasn't long ago they were raising fares and cutting services like mad. In my youth a plane trip included a full meal even in coach, these days you are lucky to score half a soda and a pack of peanuts and on some flights you have to pay for them. BP flies all over this country, one of his last flights the plane ticket was reasonable under $250 each way, but the up charges EQUALED the price of the ticket since he actually wanted and needed to carry luggage. At least SW allows you 2 pieces of luggage under 50 lb for free, the other airlines are charging through the nose. On that flight his carry on was 8 bins behind his seat since everyone was trying to carry what they needed onto the plane in carry-on luggage. Coughing, sneezing people, 30 minutes between flights to get to the other side of the airport and grab a snack on the way and then an hour on the tarmac with no air, no service and virtually no information did not make for a happy camper. Currently for your two seats, price of your ticket or whatever you get the airlines can leave you sit on the tarmac without a bathroom available, circulating air or information up to 3 hours or more waiting to take off. Missed your connection, well sorry about that, maybe we can get you on the next flight if it is not full. On the article I posted earlier, you could buy your second seat and be asked/ordered to give it up so a standby passenger could use it. Refund..wait for it. Airlines overbook flights and don't tell you until you are stuck sitting at the airport hoping to get on the plane. Yes they give you perks for it if they bump you, but if someone is sitting and waiting for you at the other end or you HAVE to be somewhere..oh well. No longer is it fly the friendly skies..now it is more fly the greyhound bus of the skies. Have enough time to actually eat between flights? You guessed it the food courts in the terminal area are up charged as well. Want a drink on a flight , unless you are in first class you will pay more per liquid ounce than if you bought the entire bottle and that half can of soda is mostly ice. Yes it is true, women who are 7 months pregant or so are not supposed to fly at least not without a doctor saying ok, but that doesn't change the problem for a woman who is 5 months carrying twins or a large baby. There are times you just have to get on that plane, pregnant or not. Kazza they did retrofit some planes but found it economically cheaper to retire most of the older planes with wide seats and use newer planes that are smaller, with smaller seats for local and regional flights. They started doing that years ago..not recently. International planes have kept the wider more cushioned seats. poenkitten

kazzaslave -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 2:00:48 PM)
kazza never eats airplane food aside from snacks....maybe. she brings her own food or if it's a short flight doesn't eat at all. For long layovers she goes out to eat such as when she had a 3 1/2 hour layover in Chicago this winter. Don't want to pay for overpriced drinks? Buy something before boarding. In any case, we can complain about all the things airlines are/aren't doing, which just aggravates for nothing because it's not going to change, do the best we can when we must fly, or find another way to travel. Personally kazza's never had a problem when flying, in fact the staff was very helpful and asked if she wanted to preboard - she's disabled and walks with a cane.

thornhappy -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 2:50:23 PM)
It's standard policy to preboard folks that will take awhile to get down the jetway and be seated. If you fly a lot, particularly if you fly through hubs on transcon trips, you're going to see the worst of airline travel. I fly around 20 times a year and have a lot of horror stories.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 3:59:44 PM)
Yup, I agree not every fat person is fat because they did it to themselves, and I will also argue any one on here who says people are fat souly cause they're piggies. People who have health problems that make them gain weight uncontrollably or can't help it or didn't do it to themselves are a whole nother story than people who did it to themself. My comment was more in line with the comment that disabled fat people would raise hell about it and then force the airlines to put bigger seats in and that's where my comment plays in. As an aside speaking of graphic picturs, did you ever see the documentary about the woman who's legs grew to be like 800 pounds, and she couldn't walk and to fix it they would of had to cut off her legs just below the pelvice leaving her essentially a torso needing a chair? quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx YHMA..yes there are people who do it to themselves, who over eat, do nothing to lose weight etc. There are also those who Don't. Not everyone pigs out or is a couch potato. There are medical conditions and even medications that cause retention of water and fat. There are also people like..oh say Hulk Hogan who has a billed weight of 275 lbs. Mass not fat..and there are conditions that cause a person to have permanently swollen legs or limbs despite having normal body mass elsewhere (it is a circulation problem)and another that causes growth mainly of the gluteus maximus. Warning very graphic image I had a friend when I was younger that suffered from this (can't remember the name of the condition) and she was NOT a big eater, exercised regularly and was painfully shy because of this Shelf that her rear formed..large enough to hold a tray. A Genetic disability, not food related yet she would have to purchase two seats under this Fee. Another friend of mine weighed in at nearly 450 lbs, was oversized at birth and ate less than 2500 calories a day on average. He avoided excess carbohyrates and sugars like most people avoid snakes. He walked constantly, climbed stairs, could bench press a great deal of weight and worked hard. We lost him after the Doctors finally diagnosed the Endocrine problem he had and he began to lose weight too fast. His heart burst as he was celebrating the weight loss with a diet coke. There are many reasons for obesity, not all of them food or exercise related. I suspect few ticketing agents are trained to discern whether a person just over eats or has a physical problem that causes the mass and weight. poenkitten

rulemylife -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 5:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx Actually on the regional flights they are using planes with smaller seats. This is the second or third time I've heard this on here and it is really a misconception. For example, Delta's 737-800's have a seat width of 17.0" compared to Delta Connections CRJ regional jet's seat width of 17.5". (SeatGuru Seat Map Delta Air Lines Boeing 737-800)

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/18/2009 6:43:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx Orion I know I don't have papers for all my medical conditions, though I have the meds. At 190 Lbs I am what my doctors consider obese, but not by airline standards and frankly if I were a man..probably not medically, then. Yet I have several ailments that limit my ability to lose weight despite major efforts to do so. But, why should I HAVE to prove a medical condition to a clerk at an airline counter? They are not a doctor, not a part of the medical establishment and frankly it is a violation of my medical privacy to do so. Someone who is over 6 foot doesn't have to prove it is genetic or medical (acromegaly is medical) why should someone who is obese. Especially since obese is relative to height. The person who is 6'5 and 250Lbs is not obese yet the person who is 5'6 and 210 is. The person who is 4'10 is obese at 150 lb. What if it is muscle mass and not fat? Same weight, but different packaging so to speak. Handicap parking permits are not a violation of your so called privacy. That privacy ends at the side of your seat, so when your privacy bumps into my privacy, you need to show you have a med condition to be considered disabled. That is what I was refering to, you mentioned disability. quote: Shall we all have to stand on a scale like our luggage and under a ruler for them to decide who pays for an extra seat or wait for them to decide you must be this weight to fly and extra over that weight is so much more dollar wise? After all some carriers are charging now for your first piece of luggage that has to be stowed and any luggage over 50 lbs is another $25 each. They don't give you back money if all you have is a carry on. and they don't put extra fuel in the plane for the over weight luggage, though they charge for it..and they don't make the pilots ( some of whom are not the svelte models you expect) buy an extra seat in the cockpit to accomodate them either. We trust the crew to have good judgement of our safety while we fly, so they just need some guideleines and good judgement. If you have a disability that requires you to have more room, then let them accomidate you, but you need to prove the disability. quote: Canada struck down the airlines attempts to charge for an extra seat for the obese... hate to see they are more rights oriented than they are when it comes to this. poenkitten What about everyone else's right to pay for just the area they use. Are you suggesting larger people are due more room, and everyone's aitfare should go up because of it? Obesity is a problem in this country, and only a small percentage have some type of medical condition that causes it. A large percentage claim it though. If you are the former, then you should have no problem because the latter are riding on your actual disability or medical condition when they do not have one. Kind of like parking in a handicap space and faking a limp when you go in the store.

BlackPhx -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 7:40:42 AM)
And yet, not all disabilities that make you eligible for that handicap placard are visible. Mine are not, yet I have a permanent card and a need for it. I can pre-board a plane which of course means I can get a prime seat on SW, and into my seat on any other airline but I can't control who sits next to me, including the 4 year old with runny nose and a cold or the business man in the contagious stage of the flu or the harried mother with the screaming child in arms or the person with the yapping terrier. All of these people ALSO encroach on my space and yours and in ways that can be far more detrimental to your health and sanity. Now...once the airline says I am OK to fly that my disability is recognized and I am boarded on the plane..Should I show you my handicap plaque as well so you know WHY I may need a little more room or an outside aisle seat that you want, or are you still going to be inconvenienced even though I may have paid extra and given up that extra seat I paid for so you could fly too. poenkitten

kazzaslave -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 8:22:22 AM)
shakes head so apparently you not only expect to be accomodated for your disability you also want veto/choice of who sits next to you, in the general vicinity of where you are, oh hell on the plane with you so you won't be inconvenienced or disturbed. kazza hopes you see how unreasonable that is, the airline owes you nothing but transportation and others who fly shouldn't have to cater to your needs/wants.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 9:35:34 AM)
Mamma's < or Papa's > with infants that are going to sit on their lap for the entire flight are charged for two seats and have been for as long as I remember. That is obscene to me. Charging for two seats, when your body takes up two seats is just fine, if they are given two seat space, imo. I am not a small girl < 5'2, 150lbs> and I have had to suffer a 6 hour flight squashed into the window wall of the plane because I was paired up with two very large men. It was like a 6 hour extreme bondage session. My shoulder was pinned to the window with continualy force being applied and my shoulder and arms were hunched with the arms having to cross each other in my lap. I could not lower my meal tray for a drink because it impinged on the man next to me's stomach. It was so bad that I had to go to the MD when I arrived home for a Percocet script. So, I am just fine with someone who is so obese that they are causing physical discomfort to another purchasing and recieving two seats for their comfort and their flight buddy's comfort. mbmbn

Lucylastic -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 10:01:37 AM)
Its not acceptable to me, so I wont fly UA again. Ill stick with air canada.No I dont need two seats, not even a lap expander, I guess for most people its ok to penalise sections of people until it affects their own pocketbook. Considering that yes the population of the western world is getting larger, I wonder how long it will be before some enterprising company starts up flights for fatties.

xBullx -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 10:08:28 AM)
I think I'll just buy one of GM's old corporate jets, they should be for sale on the cheap...

kazzaslave -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 10:12:44 AM)
kazza is guessing it won't be long before such an airline will be born. It all depends on how vocal people are about the extra charge.

aravain -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 12:21:03 PM)
kazza, I'm pretty sure her point was that penalizing larger people is exactly the same as that.

kazzaslave -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 1:25:01 PM)
Aravain, kazza reread what poen said several times and it still sounds to kazza like poen is complaining about those people who are sick and noisy children being seated next to her. Maybe that's not the case but it's the way it reads to kazza.

Cagey18 -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 1:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot Mamma's < or Papa's > with infants that are going to sit on their lap for the entire flight are charged for two seats and have been for as long as I remember. That is obscene to me. You have a faulty memory. There is no charge for infants under 2, if they are child-in-arms. If the infant is in a car seat, well then the two of them take up two seats, and of course they should be charged for two seats.

camille65 -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 2:22:51 PM)
On a flight to China (19 hours. Nineteen. Almost 20) I was seated next to a woman who was so obese the arm rest could not be lowered. She took up a considerable amount of my seat (and shoved her feet in my space). Spending that much time crammed against a strangers body is simply wrong unless it is a fetish. Which for me, it is not. We paid the same amount to fly yet my seat was literally taken over by another body. No one should have to deal with that, she should have had to purchase an extra seat. There were empty seats but I was not permitted to move. It was torturous. (Nor would my damn sister switch off with me grrrrrr.). By the time we finally landed I was in physical pain from contorting unnaturally. She had the right to fly because she bought a ticket but she had no right to sharing part of my seat. I think that my right to a full seat size is greater than her right to flow into my seat. Until I can afford First Class that will be my last international flight. We did get real silverware though, and the food was pretty good.

littlewonder -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 3:59:31 PM)
Imo if you use two seats then you should be charged for two seats..be it from your weight, a baby, your luggage or because you just don't want someone beside you. You use two you pay for two.

maybemaybenot -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 4:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cagey18 quote: ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot Mamma's < or Papa's > with infants that are going to sit on their lap for the entire flight are charged for two seats and have been for as long as I remember. That is obscene to me. You have a faulty memory. There is no charge for infants under 2, if they are child-in-arms. If the infant is in a car seat, well then the two of them take up two seats, and of course they should be charged for two seats. Not exactly faulty, but not accurate. correction: infants and children under two y/o on *international* flights............are charged a fee, taxes and any and all surcharges, including a fuel surcharge. mbmbn

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Yet Another Airline Fee... (4/19/2009 4:56:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx And yet, not all disabilities that make you eligible for that handicap placard are visible. Mine are not, yet I have a permanent card and a need for it. I can pre-board a plane which of course means I can get a prime seat on SW, and into my seat on any other airline but I can't control who sits next to me, including the 4 year old with runny nose and a cold or the business man in the contagious stage of the flu or the harried mother with the screaming child in arms or the person with the yapping terrier. The kids on planes is a separate issue. Start a topic on it, and I will contribute to that. Instead I will concentrate on the OP. So you have something that shows your disability, correct? Good, that is my point. You have a verifiable disability, that the airline can check. It is no one else's business if the airline is in charge and has these guidelines. quote: All of these people ALSO encroach on my space and yours and in ways that can be far more detrimental to your health and sanity. Now...once the airline says I am OK to fly that my disability is recognized and I am boarded on the plane..Should I show you my handicap plaque as well so you know WHY I may need a little more room or an outside aisle seat that you want, or are you still going to be inconvenienced even though I may have paid extra and given up that extra seat I paid for so you could fly too. poenkitten You are straying from the OP, and not addressing the questions posed to you. 1) If you require more room than one seat will afford, then pay for two, unless you have a verifiable disability. 2) Many large people want to say they have a medical condition that causes, when in fact only a small percentage do. This should piss off the people that actually have a verifiable one. 3)I would like to add my comments also include people with lots of muscle or large frames. Those people pay more for clothing (space relevant), buy vehicles that have larger driving areas (space relevant), so why not airline seats too?

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