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RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:08:05 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Popeye, you are ignorant: I don't know whether this is deliberate, or accidental, but you can do something about it. I advise you to take a little trip over there to see for yourself: in the meantime, you're just posturing and making a lot of noise for nothing.

Kittin, have you ever been to Haiti? N. Africa? I have.
They're shit pits.
People who are well-travelled see things as they are not as they "should be."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 61

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:09:42 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Thanks, Kirata. I'd already read that article - it illustrates my point very well.

Chastity, you're overreacting hugely: you shouldn't feel threatened just because I disagree with you. As you say, this is an open forum.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 62

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:11:28 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Foreign aid isn't a blank check drawn out to a foreign country's bank. If only it were that simple.

Oh? Did you hear about that African "King" last summer and his $2 million birthday party?
Flew his wives to London in a private jet to go shopping to the tune of $500k. (It was on Yahoo News)
And there's dozens of stories like that!
I'm very well aware of how "foreign aid" works. I was in the military for 14 years.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven and it's ***loaded*** with corruption. Many people and cos. have gotten rich off of it.
Congressmen and senators vote for various "projects" and the next month a check for $1m is received by the Democratic or Republican national committees.

If you were railing about corruption and poor implentation of foreign aid,that would be one thing....what you call for,repeatedly is an elimination of foreign aid.Two very different assertions popeye,and yours is heartless not to mention shortsighted ,foreign aid is responsible for opening up emerging markets to U.S business's and acquiring access to untold foreign resources.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 63

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:11:50 PM

N4SDChastity

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Hello kittin,

Maybe this will help...

Somalia: You Are Being Lied to About Pirates

K.

And, if they had stuck to defending their waters, as opposed to capturing and ransoming innocent merchantmen and their vessels, to include leisure ships and private vessels not interested in their shripm, and tuns, and mussels and shoals and such, they might have my sympathy (and, I doubt they much care if they do or not), but their "mission" HAS evolved into full-scale piracy. The reality of which is that, as I said (not "decided," or "directed"), soon, the general consensus will be that it is simpler and cheaper to just start killing them. Like it or not.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 64

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:19:13 PM

N4SDChastity

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Thanks, Kirata. I'd already read that article - it illustrates my point very well.

Chastity, you're overreacting hugely: you shouldn't feel threatened just because I disagree with you. As you say, this is an open forum.

There is naught you could do to threaten me, my dear. You decided to question my authority to "decide" that people are tired of it and will begin to respond with deadly violence. It is NOT my authority to make such a decision. And I did not pretend to have such authority. Unlike you, I do not pre-suppose MY wishes on the world. I only stated my opinion of what will come to pass, not what I wish to be. I have dozens of friends and acquaintances who ARE Somali, and they stand on both sides of teh issue. But, regardless of where they, or you, or I stand, pirates will begin falling to seas in droves if they continue.

Personally, I wish it did not have to be that way. Professionally, if I were one of the snipers, or in a position to make that call... Sure, take them out. No great loss in th egrand scheme. They chose wrong. They died.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 65

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:20:38 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

When I see a child in a school cafeteria without a Meal I actually get angry that we are still sending aide to foreign countires and cutting the Budget for what stays here in our own.

Someone Please tell me how this makes even the littlest bit of sense? When was the last Foreign Aide Budget Cut you saw?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I see the idea of refusing Aide to a country that isn't willing to properly police itself as a good idea.

I can never figure out why right wingers always try that either/or dodge. Whether or not you've already voted for politicians who cut poverty assistance at home, it doesn't compel you to let children die elsewhere, even if they're the "foreign" children Popeye is in such a hurry to dispatch.

I have to admit I'm also a bit confused by letting children die because that live in a country that has no effective government. It's certainly true that if you refuse aid, or support the usual, half-assed, badly-administered aid program that's meant entirely for soundbites, there's a much better chance that the survivors *will* grow up to be uneducated minions of warlords, but, really, do those children look like pirates to you?

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 66

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:22:52 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Foreign aid isn't a blank check drawn out to a foreign country's bank. If only it were that simple.

Oh? Did you hear about that African "King" last summer and his $2 million birthday party?
Flew his wives to London in a private jet to go shopping to the tune of $500k. (It was on Yahoo News)
And there's dozens of stories like that!
I'm very well aware of how "foreign aid" works. I was in the military for 14 years.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven and it's ***loaded*** with corruption. Many people and cos. have gotten rich off of it.
Congressmen and senators vote for various "projects" and the next month a check for $1m is received by the Democratic or Republican national committees.

If you were railing about corruption and poor implentation of foreign aid,that would be one thing....what you call for,repeatedly is an elimination of foreign aid.Two very different assertions popeye,and yours is heartless not to mention shortsighted ,foreign aid is responsible for opening up emerging markets to U.S business's and acquiring access to untold foreign resources.

Mike, heartless? I'm not responsable for people in foreign countries. Maybe I didn't get that letter in the mail like you did.
Are people in foreign countries in turn responsable for (me)?
Resources? And what resources does Ethiopia and Somalia have? Sand?
All this "buy the world a coke" stuff (on our dime of course!) is a bunch of crap. Some countries have been getting foreign aid for fifty years now! It's typical of govt. programs, they never fucking end! They want more and more and more!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 67

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:24:15 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

The right does seem to notice America's poor only fleetingly.Just about long enough to rail against foreign aid......and than things go back to normal and they forget all about them.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 68

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:31:40 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride
I can never figure out why right wingers always try that either/or dodge. Whether or not you've already voted for politicians who cut poverty assistance at home, it doesn't compel you to let children die elsewhere, even if they're the "foreign" children Popeye is in such a hurry to dispatch.

I have to admit I'm also a bit confused by letting children die because that live in a country that has no effective government. It's certainly true that if you refuse aid, or support the usual, half-assed, badly-administered aid program that's meant entirely for soundbites, there's a much better chance that the survivors *will* grow up to be uneducated minions of warlords, but, really, do those children look like pirates to you?

Truths of the world.

People Die. Adult and Child alike.

I believe that children are raised to hate depending on who is raising them. So I believe regardless of Aide many of the people we help will hate us for it. Did North Korea's use of the aide that was sent benifit Anyone in North Korea that wasn't a soldier who was trained to attack the American Scum.

before we get too far along here you should know that I am not agianst giving Aide, I just believe that it should only go to Allies of America. If you aren't one then yes let them starve, let them die, if they want a say I suggest they rise up against their goverment and overthrow whoever is causing the problem.

AMERICA IS NOT THE BABYSITTER OF THE WORLD. As far as I am concerned America comes first. It is the country I am LOYAL too. Regardless of who is in command, regardless of the mistakes we make, however if I were given the call any country that is not with and for our cause is not an allie and therfore not someone we need to be feeding.

So Yes, Children would die, that is until thier Goverment or Political Body decides to show America that they are WITH us and that ANYONE against us is dealt with accordingly.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 69

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:34:57 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The right does seem to notice America's poor only fleetingly.Just about long enough to rail against foreign aid......and than things go back to normal and they forget all about them.

And look at the left and their adoption of "foreign" children. All the kids in this country who need to be adopted and they ignore them.
Both the Right and Left are wrong on this issue.
People who want to give our money to foreign countries would walk by a homeless person in the street like they're not even there.
How much longer is this "foreign aid" crap going to last? I don't care about "Aids in Africa" I care about "Aids in America."
This isn't a "left" or "right" issue. It's an issue of bad policy, bad management and corruption that's been ingrained in Washington for far too long!
President Obama ran on a platform of "Change". When are we going to see some?
Thus far he's bailed out wealthy people just like Bush.
I hope this isn't going to be another four more years of Bush's policies! When is he going to start doing something for The People of this country?
The big corporations have had their way under Clinton and Bush.
We have enough problems in the U.S. to be focusing on for the next fifty years!
Mike, the U.S. State Dept has become an *advocate* for foreign countries! They are *not* supposed to be doing that kind of thing!
They are supposed to be "representing" the U.S. to foreign countries. Period.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/15/2009 1:43:48 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 70

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:36:33 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Popeye I said your views on this issue are heartless, you have repeatedly call for a total and absolute end to all foreign aid....yes IMO that is heartless. Never said you were heartless from what I know of human anatomy...that would be a ridiculous statement....and I have allready made my one allotted ridiculous statement elsewhere...

As far as natural resources,you are correct Ethiopia and Somalia are bereft of abundant riches.But Ethiopia and Somalia are not the whole foreign aid package.Are you suggesting there is no enlightened self interest at work here?Is it your contention that successive U.S. Congress's ,many different Administrations from both sides of the aisle....just decided to give away this aid ?...with no benefit to American interest's? Don't you have a little trouble believing that?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 71

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:43:08 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The right does seem to notice America's poor only fleetingly.Just about long enough to rail against foreign aid......and than things go back to normal and they forget all about them.

Do you mean everyone on the right? Are you sure about that? And I suppose everyone on the left are perfect. How sweet.. Talking about painting everyone with the same brush. But I guess it's ok if your the one painting.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 4/15/2009 1:44:24 PM >

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 72

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:45:37 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: N4SDChastity

And, if they had stuck to defending their waters, as opposed to capturing and ransoming innocent merchantmen and their vessels, to include leisure ships and private vessels not interested in their shripm, and tuns, and mussels and shoals and such, they might have my sympathy (and, I doubt they much care if they do or not), but their "mission" HAS evolved into full-scale piracy. The reality of which is that, as I said (not "decided," or "directed"), soon, the general consensus will be that it is simpler and cheaper to just start killing them. Like it or not.

That's a valid point, and I don't disagree with you. I just felt the larger picture hadn't been presented. And I'll add, speaking as an American, that the link I posted indicates the nuclear waste dumping and, er, "piracy" of their territorial fisheries, were acts committed by European nations, which would leave me with approximately zero sympathy for their attacks on US flagged vessels in any case. Moreover, I think it's rather bizarre for people to claim that the pirates only want the money, not to hurt anyone. The money is being extorted at the end of a gun. Does anyone really suppose that if a crew refused to obey the pirates' commands, the latter would just shrug, wish them a nice day, and go home?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/15/2009 1:49:38 PM >

(in reply to N4SDChastity)

Post #: 73

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:50:07 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The right does seem to notice America's poor only fleetingly.Just about long enough to rail against foreign aid......and than things go back to normal and they forget all about them.

Do you mean everyone on the right? Are you sure about that? And I suppose everyone on the left are perfect. How sweet.. Talking about painting everyone with the same brush. But I guess it's ok if your the one painting.

No boi...if I had meant "everybody,I would have typed "everybody" .In the future I will be more careful .....when responding to some one who makes sweeping judgements to remember that I must be wary of percieved geralizations.....will that do for you or will further clarification be needed.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 74

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 1:54:14 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Popeye I said your views on this issue are heartless, you have repeatedly call for a total and absolute end to all foreign aid....yes IMO that is heartless. Never said you were heartless from what I know of human anatomy...that would be a ridiculous statement....and I have allready made my one allotted ridiculous statement elsewhere...
As far as natural resources,you are correct Ethiopia and Somalia are bereft of abundant riches.But Ethiopia and Somalia are not the whole foreign aid package.Are you suggesting there is no enlightened self interest at work here?Is it your contention that successive U.S. Congress's ,many different Administrations from both sides of the aisle....just decided to give away this aid ?...with no benefit to American interest's? Don't you have a little trouble believing that?

Mike, no, I don't have trouble believing that.
There (is) "self interest", *there are simply too many people, lobbyists and corporations in Washington making too much money from foreign aid.*
And again, it is the *responsibility* of foreign govts and peoples to take care of their own not me sitting here in Myrtle Beach, S.C.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 75

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 2:01:20 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

People Die. Adult and Child alike.

Yes. Especially, they die if they're children, starving, and waiting for you to find some table scraps.

Glad we could clarify.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 76

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 2:15:18 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

Well mcbride you send your food scraps to the starving children of the world I'll send mine to the starving children in america.

I bet you mine will be appreciated more than yours.

When was the last time you were thanked for your conrtibution to their country?

I know that when I cook Hotdogs for the kids at the Orphanage on MY DOLLAR they are VERY VERY VERY Thankful.

Just out of curiosity where is your Priority when it comes to the problems right in front of you?

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 4/15/2009 2:16:00 PM >

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 77

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 2:27:56 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Charity is a personal choice best not decided by Governments, however governments make the choice because people far away are never the first priority of their own population. Charity also goes towards education which helps people help themselves. Without such help they will go down the criminal path for sure because their aspirations have never been raised to anything else. If you want to solve the piracy issue the worst thing you can do is stop aid to that part of the world or reduce it. Isolationist thinking never helped the person isolating himself from the problems in the world. No example of history will support the case that turning a blind eye to the world beyond a nations border helped that nation prosper and become more secure, you cure envy by helping people have pride in themselves.

The other thing I'd point out is no one should have to be grateful for charity. My definition of charity is you give something for nothing in return and especially not gratitude. Gratitude makes me feel awkward I'd rather not have it, I know when I've done something good for someone. I don't need the person to recognise that themselves, that would make me feel conceited.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 4/15/2009 2:45:08 PM >

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∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 78

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 2:45:14 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Charity is a personal choice best not decided by Governments, however governments make the choice because people far away are never the first priority of their own population. Charity also goes towards education which helps people help themselves. Without such help they will go down the criminal path for sure because their aspirations have never been raised to anything else. If you want to solve the piracy issue the worst thing you can do is stop aid to that part of the world or reduce it. Isolationist thinking never helped the person isolating himself from the problems in the world. No example of history will support the case that turning a blind eye to the world beyond a nations border helped that nation prosper and become more secure, you cure envy by helping people have pride in themselves.

The other thing I'd point out is no one should have to be greatfull for charity. My definition of charity is you give something for nothing in return and especially not gratitude.

FullCircle,

If that were the case things would be getting better there over the last 50+ years that we have been sending aide, Instead things are getting worse and this situation is evident of that.

How long do you suppose we throw "charity" before we realize that it is being taken as a hand out and not a hand up?

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to FullCircle)

Post #: 79

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 2:57:56 PM

FullCircle

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline

Wrong philosophy partly.

If you visit NGO sites you'll see they make a small difference and sometimes a big difference but a small difference is better than no difference. Maybe we are powerless to change the world through these charity donations but there is no alternative. I don't think giving to one cause should prevent you from giving to another. The charity begins at home saying I'm not a great believer in because charity is charity; it does not end anywhere so who cares where it begins?

Maybe you give $1 to one charity but you can split it between two charities, you’d feel the same they’d welcome it the same, it’s better than nothing. I don’t understand the argument that you have to have one special cause to fight for.

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 80

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