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RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 3:26:11 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
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You mean like the debacle in the "Mog", where our troops had their hands tied due to political reasons in Somolia, and had to watch women and children attacked so that the warlords could get to the food, and feed their people?

Somolia and simiar countries need a DMZ/No Weapons area for the refugees, and the food and medical aid only disbursed there. That area needs to be enforced with zero tolerance, so that it is safe for those that truly need and want the aid.

This is of course if I supported sending funds outside my country when things can be improved here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

That some food aid winds up in the wrong hands has everything to do with western governments trying to give the appearance of helping without putting in the resources needed to make sure it all goes where it's intended.

What that has to do with you, as a human being, enthusiastically supporting the deaths of those children, I'm not sure.

_____________________________

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Post #: 81

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 3:33:27 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's just following on from Popeye's brilliant strategy of 'carpet-bombing the entire coast'. Third world war is just what's needed here. Pure genius.

(I've never understood this concept. So, we fly in with 35 fully loaded B-52's and drop 10,000 tons of shag carpeting per air drop on these people....all it's going to do is cause them to want to buy a Dyson {which, by the way....we don't manufacture here in this country!}. How will that save our ships?).

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 82

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 3:48:15 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

(I've never understood this concept. So, we fly in with 35 fully loaded B-52's and drop 10,000 tons of shag carpeting per air drop on these people....all it's going to do is cause them to want to buy a Dyson {which, by the way....we don't manufacture here in this country!}. How will that save our ships?).

I wonder whether such an operation is cost effective?
As measured against the alternative of humanitarian aid....plus the benefit of no nightmares concerning the brutal deaths we have consigned untold numbers to

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 83

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 4:20:18 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's just following on from Popeye's brilliant strategy of 'carpet-bombing the entire coast'. Third world war is just what's needed here. Pure genius.

(I've never understood this concept. So, we fly in with 35 fully loaded B-52's and drop 10,000 tons of shag carpeting per air drop on these people....all it's going to do is cause them to want to buy a Dyson {which, by the way....we don't manufacture here in this country!}. How will that save our ships?).

The thought of bombing foreigners makes some people feel good, I think

.

_____________________________

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Post #: 84

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 4:27:07 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Well mcbride you send your food scraps to the starving children of the world I'll send mine to the starving children in america.

I bet you mine will be appreciated more than yours.

When was the last time you were thanked for your conrtibution to their country?

I know that when I cook Hotdogs for the kids at the Orphanage on MY DOLLAR they are VERY VERY VERY Thankful.

Just out of curiosity where is your Priority when it comes to the problems right in front of you?

Steel

Well, as Ronnie used to say, there you go again.

It's not either/or. I can do my piece to fight domestic hunger, and still not ignore children who are dying in hell holes like Somalia. I understand why right-wingers want to pretend they can't possibly help both, but I dunno anyone who doesn't see that for what it is.

As for their appreciation....if my money buys a bag of grain for a child in Somalia or one who lives next door to you, I don't need a thank you note.

Tell ya what. Send me a receipt for your contribution, and I'll send you a thank you note on their behalf.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 85

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 4:38:15 PM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

You mean like the debacle in the "Mog", where our troops had their hands tied due to political reasons in Somolia, and had to watch women and children attacked so that the warlords could get to the food, and feed their people?

Somolia and simiar countries need a DMZ/No Weapons area for the refugees, and the food and medical aid only disbursed there. That area needs to be enforced with zero tolerance, so that it is safe for those that truly need and want the aid.

This is of course if I supported sending funds outside my country when things can be improved here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

That some food aid winds up in the wrong hands has everything to do with western governments trying to give the appearance of helping without putting in the resources needed to make sure it all goes where it's intended.

What that has to do with you, as a human being, enthusiastically supporting the deaths of those children, I'm not sure.

Yes! Exactly! You're right, and we're agreed, then, that western countries and others who can afford it should get off their asses and do it properly.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 86

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 6:00:12 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Seems to me two or three Wasp Class carriers strategically placed would do wonders... I'll bet other nations would be glad to pick up a portion of the cost. The Wasp class is also a troop carrier and could be used for raids on pirate bases.

Attack helicopters could quickly close with attacking pirates and have the staying power an FA-18 would not have.

We could follow them back to their mother ships or bases without needing a full scale invasion.

We also have to convince other nations to stop paying ransoms... yes it may be economical in any one instance but it only encourages more highjacking.

It is hard but if there were no money and only danger death in highjacking it would stop.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/15/2009 6:04:14 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 87

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 6:23:30 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

You know Butch I have no problem dealing with the actual pirates in just such a manner......but just because we can blow all of them(the Somali's) doesn't mean we should.And a few here have advocated just that.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/15/2009 6:25:04 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 88

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 7:38:48 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Then we would be agreed that the UN should not be involved, if we are going to render aid. We are not agreed that aid should actually be rendered. I believe countries such as this, must go through suffering and what have you. Otherwise, once they reach stability they will not appreciate it enough to try with all their might to keep it.

Now how this relates to the piracy, is only through the excuse that hard times and desperate people, are acceptable excuses for piracy, murder, etc.

I am all for having a small detail of marines on each vessel, especially if it is food, medicine, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

Yes! Exactly! You're right, and we're agreed, then, that western countries and others who can afford it should get off their asses and do it properly.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to mcbride)

Post #: 89

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 8:50:59 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

You know Butch I have no problem dealing with the actual pirates in just such a manner......but just because we can blow all of them(the Somali's) doesn't mean we should.And a few here have advocated just that.

I think it would be fairly easy to locate, identify, and take out pirate bases...hell the press has no trouble finding them. No need for mass destruction.

Aid will not work and is a stupid idea… at least as an answer to the piracy. When are we going to learn paying blackmail aid...as in Korea and Palestine… never works? These are criminals’ not poor starving fishermen they will just gain control of the aid and extort their own people as they did before.

We must deal with this problem before aid and we will…mark my words they eventually will capture Americans and our only possible response will be military and decisive. Makes no difference if we like it or not… they will not stop until we do this.

Butch

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 90

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 8:51:37 PM

N4SDChastity

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Seems to me two or three Wasp Class carriers strategically placed would do wonders... I'll bet other nations would be glad to pick up a portion of the cost. The Wasp class is also a troop carrier and could be used for raids on pirate bases.

Attack helicopters could quickly close with attacking pirates and have the staying power an FA-18 would not have.

We could follow them back to their mother ships or bases without needing a full scale invasion.

We also have to convince other nations to stop paying ransoms... yes it may be economical in any one instance but it only encourages more highjacking.

It is hard but if there were no money and only danger death in highjacking it would stop.

Butch

Clearly, Butch, you have never been to war college.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 91

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 8:53:01 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: N4SDChastity

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Seems to me two or three Wasp Class carriers strategically placed would do wonders... I'll bet other nations would be glad to pick up a portion of the cost. The Wasp class is also a troop carrier and could be used for raids on pirate bases.

Attack helicopters could quickly close with attacking pirates and have the staying power an FA-18 would not have.

We could follow them back to their mother ships or bases without needing a full scale invasion.

We also have to convince other nations to stop paying ransoms... yes it may be economical in any one instance but it only encourages more highjacking.

It is hard but if there were no money and only danger death in highjacking it would stop.

Butch

Clearly, Butch, you have never been to war college.

Nope but I've been to war...how about you?

Butch

(in reply to N4SDChastity)

Post #: 92

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 8:54:25 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

You know Butch I have no problem dealing with the actual pirates in just such a manner......but just because we can blow all of them(the Somali's) doesn't mean we should.And a few here have advocated just that.

I think it would be fairly easy to locate, identify, and take out pirate bases...hell the press has no trouble finding them. No need for mass destruction.

Aid will not work and is a stupid idea… at least as an answer to the piracy. When are we going to learn paying blackmail aid...as in Korea and Palestine… never works? These are criminals’ not poor starving fishermen they will just gain control of the aid and extort their own people as they did before.

We must deal with this problem before aid and we will…mark my words they eventually will capture Americans and our only possible response will be military and decisive. Makes no difference if we like it or not… they will not stop until we do this.

Butch

Aid is not an answer to piracy,they are two seperate issues.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 93

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 8:57:22 PM

N4SDChastity

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
~but just because we can blow all of them(the Somali's) doesn't mean we should.And a few here have advocated just that.

Our (still in effect) don't ask/don't tell policy notwithstanding, I do not think anyone suggested we "blow" all of the Somalis.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 94

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 9:09:26 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: N4SDChastity

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
~but just because we can blow all of them(the Somali's) doesn't mean we should.And a few here have advocated just that.

Our (still in effect) don't ask/don't tell policy notwithstanding, I do not think anyone suggested we "blow" all of the Somalis.

See,now that was funny....and obviously,or maybe not so obviously...what I meant was "blow them all to hell"....never post after drinking at dinner.LOL
p.s. by the time I noticed the error...the edit option was gone...thanks for giving me a chance to clear up any confusion . lol

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/15/2009 9:11:01 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to N4SDChastity)

Post #: 95

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 9:18:00 PM

N4SDChastity

Posts: 327
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: N4SDChastity

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Seems to me two or three Wasp Class carriers strategically placed would do wonders... I'll bet other nations would be glad to pick up a portion of the cost. The Wasp class is also a troop carrier and could be used for raids on pirate bases.

Attack helicopters could quickly close with attacking pirates and have the staying power an FA-18 would not have.

We could follow them back to their mother ships or bases without needing a full scale invasion.

We also have to convince other nations to stop paying ransoms... yes it may be economical in any one instance but it only encourages more highjacking.

It is hard but if there were no money and only danger death in highjacking it would stop.

Butch

Clearly, Butch, you have never been to war college.

Nope but I've been to war...how about you?

Butch

In the streets, more times than I care to count.
In my Military career, not yet. But, not for lack of trying. Got maybe one more shot (pun intended) at it.

So, ACTUAL war, or REMF?

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 96

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 9:22:16 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Just wanted to know if you have been to a war college?.. If so...I'd love to hear your ideas of how something can be done...not how it can't...not the military way.

PS... I do hope you never get a chance to go to war.

Butch

(in reply to N4SDChastity)

Post #: 97

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 9:35:41 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Popeye, how dare you suggest that we retaliate against these peace loving fisherman if they attack? They are innocent victims being oppressed and we should not deny them the right to kill all the evil sailors that they want.

I bet you had a hard time typing that with a straight face, didn't ya, IK? heheh....

_____________________________

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Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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(in reply to Irishknight)

Post #: 98

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 9:37:55 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Make that two of us, but great opening for My point.

The thing is, a lot of us here at home, especially those of us with military connections through family or whatever, are getting rather sick and tired of the save the world concept. There are certain things in life that are in limited supply. Food, money, and medicine happen to be three of them. It shouldn't be a sin to say that I'm more interested in *every* American having their basic needs met first, before I would think of sending resources elsewhere.

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(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 99

RE: Somali Pirates vow to go after American ships, kill... - 4/15/2009 10:52:21 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Make that two of us, but great opening for My point.

The thing is, a lot of us here at home, especially those of us with military connections through family or whatever, are getting rather sick and tired of the save the world concept. There are certain things in life that are in limited supply. Food, money, and medicine happen to be three of them. It shouldn't be a sin to say that I'm more interested in *every* American having their basic needs met first, before I would think of sending resources elsewhere.

Lady Pact, well said.
What good has foreign aid ever done us?
Look at Israel, 50 some odd years on the dole now and all it's caused is for a *whole bunch* of people to hate the U.S.!
Two $billion to Egypt a year for "military assistance" to use against who, Israel?
More than 130 countries getting foreign aid from the U.S. now! Every country in the Carribean! And for *decades* now!
Why should any of those countries lift a finger to help themselves if they just think, "let the stupid Americans pay for everything?"
This whole situation just stinks!
Fifty million Americans now without health insurance (Yahoo News) who's Taxdollars are going overseas to build hospitals and provide healthcare in foreign countries!
When are the American People going to wake up and put a stop to this crap?
What's it going to take? Things like this usually need just one little spark!
This is insanity!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 4/15/2009 10:54:18 PM >

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 100

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