RE: Why the GOP is unraveling.

RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (Full Version)

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samboct -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 2:25:26 PM)
I'm not putting the spin on anything. Reagan's record on education is clear- he thought that education should be cut to pay for a massive defense buildup. Chopping the school lunch budget was something that Gerry Ford did too. Wikipedia also doesn't spare Ronnie the Rayguns on this one- The ketchup as a vegetable controversy or ketchupgate refers to a proposed United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Food and Drug Administration directive, early in the administration of Ronald Reagan, that would have reclassified ketchup and pickle relish from condiments to a vegetable, allowing public schools to cut out a serving of cooked or fresh vegetable from hot lunch program child-nutrition requirements. The White House Office of Management and Budget estimated a potential US $1 billion annual savings in the cost of subsidized meals for low-income students. Release of the proposed directive for required public comment in September 1981 met with outrage from nutritionists and Democrats. Charges of greed and indifference were made by media and pundits. The administration responded their concern was to address "plate waste" and to serve what students would actually consume. Focusing more unwanted attention on the matter, a mid-level political appointee at the USDA touted the directive's language as an example of the "New Federalism" (returning rights to the state level) touted by Reagan during the 1980 presidential campaign, in that the final decision to implement would be made on the state level. Reassignment of that employee the following month led to charges of a political firing. In reporting on the proposed directive Newsweek magazine illustrated their story with a bottle of ketchup with the caption "now a vegetable." The proposed directive was criticized by Democrats and Republicans alike, and was never implemented.[1] Sam

Raiikun -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 2:29:28 PM)
I didn't say you put the spin on it. Others did that. (It wasn't you that said "Reagan did something unspeakable to the youth of the nation" for one thing). That article on wikipedia is mostly fair, if incomplete; it does make clear that it was a USDA directive; but not why the USDA was forced to come up with such a silly thing before abandoning it for something more sensible.

kittinSol -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 2:37:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun I didn't say you put the spin on it. Others did that. (It wasn't you that said "Reagan did something unspeakable to the youth of the nation" for one thing). How ridiculous rofl. The above, since you quote me, is a hyperbole, not spin. A perfect example of spin, on the other hand, would have resided in Reagan trying to pass ketchup for a vegetable. We learn every day.

Raiikun -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 2:41:25 PM)
Hyperbole is a common method for creating spin. ;)

kittinSol -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 2:47:53 PM)
It's okay, you were wrong, we're on the next chapter already. So, the Reps are throwing their hands up in the air at Specter's deflection. Apparently a filibuster proof majority is detrimental to the security of the country (McConnell). Does anyone remember whether he was making similar noises when his super majority was helping Bush violate the Constitution a few years ago?

DomKen -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 3:10:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire How different this world would be today, had FL done the same thing in 2000. But, we'll never know. Since independant recounts done since show that Bush still would have won, it's safe to say that I do already know. (True, a lot of you will never know as long as you keep your eyes shut so tightly though.) Every independent recount done since revealed that if every legally registered voter that went to the correct pollignplace in Florida had been allowed to cast a counted ballot Gore would have won by a sizable, 10k+, margin. Eh, I've looked over every recount scenario done, and the most generous one was one that gave it to Gore by 171 votes. Recounting just the 3 counties that Gore requested, using the same voting methods that those counties used would have been a Bush win by 225 votes. The other recount scenarios I'd already posted previously in the thread. You're trying to ignore the documented voters who were illegaly purged.

samboct -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 3:25:05 PM)
"That article on wikipedia is mostly fair, if incomplete; it does make clear that it was a USDA directive; but not why the USDA was forced to come up with such a silly thing before abandoning it for something more sensible." Seems to me that directing the ire towards the democrats is misplaced on this one- and I think Ronnie deserves his full helping of scorn. Reagan was busy pushing tax cuts and a defense buildup and the democrats in the House (the Senate had already gone Republican) were trying to do something that smacked of fiscal restraint- i.e. cut something. The haste in doing so lies at Reagan's feet who was busy trying to make the country into his version of what it should be. The way I see it- 1) Reagan says we need a defense buildup and taxes should be cut- RIGHT NOW! 2) Democrats respond by saying we have to cut the budget someplace for that to happen. 3) Congress asks the USDA to cut $1B from the budget of school lunches- in a hurry, to try and work with Reagan's demands. 4) The USDA comes up with the acknowledged silly idea of ketchup as vegetable. Note however, that the USDA is part of the executive branch of government- and the people hired by the agency report to the President. So basically it's Ronnie's responsibility- and the guy who later took credit for the idea was sacked. 5) That this proposal was taken seriously to begin with shows the lack of input science has had in all these Republican presidencies since Ronnie. However, I don't see where there is justification for blaming a Democratic House on this one. They asked for a suggestion to the executive branch and got ketchup all over their face. Sam

Owner59 -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 10:04:56 PM)
No one said Reagan was trying to hurt or harm anyone.lol It was the symbolism. This was symbolic of the ridiculousness of noe-conservative policy(then called Reaganomics) and being to cute by half.

philosophy -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/28/2009 11:32:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Ahem. Well, let's all hope that the GOP doesn't deside to deride "asteroid detection and impact prevention" next... Chuckle.... They'd have to self-detect first, and there's no hope in hell of that happening any time soon. ..oh come on KS...you have to read more carefully. It's 'asteroid' detection, not 'hemaroid' detection. To self-detect the latter you have to be able to find your arse with two hands......[:D]

kdsub -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 9:00:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: samboct Ahem. Well, let's all hope that the GOP doesn't deside to deride "asteroid detection and impact prevention" next... Chuckle.... They'd have to self-detect first, and there's no hope in hell of that happening any time soon. ..oh come on KS...you have to read more carefully. It's 'asteroid' detection, not 'hemaroid' detection. To self-detect the latter you have to be able to find your arse with two hands......[:D] I have a problem with that as well Butch

kdsub -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 4:57:50 PM)
So put all the rhetoric aside... do you really think the Republican Party, with all that’s been in the news lately, is NOT unraveling? Butch

Truthiness -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 5:30:22 PM)
The entire government system is unraveling, GOP included.

kdsub -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 5:47:15 PM)
naw...for the first time in 8 years the government is governing...making mistakes but not unraveling... more like repairing the unraveling of the past.

Truthiness -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 5:51:33 PM)
Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Owner59 -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 6:21:05 PM)
Ignore the trolls Butch.It`s blissful...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m24.gif[/image]

Truthiness -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 6:25:28 PM)
By troll, I assume you mean anyone actually willing to think for himself, eh?

kittinSol -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 6:34:42 PM)
Butch thinks for himself. I know this because he doesn't always agree with me [8D] .

Truthiness -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 6:42:15 PM)
Non-sequiter. That last post had nothing to do with Butch. ;)

kdsub -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 7:16:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Butch thinks for himself. I know this because he doesn't always agree with me [8D] . Great minds think alike... now if I only had the great body to go alone with yours....hmmm did that come out right?

kittinSol -> RE: Why the GOP is unraveling. (4/29/2009 7:34:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Great minds think alike... now if I only had the great body to go alone with yours....hmmm did that come out right? It came out terribly wrong, Butch, but find solace in the fact that the Republican leadership is shitting itself right now [:D] .

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