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Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:10:24 PM   
Rayne749


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,
Wasn't sure where to post this so please excuse me if you feel it doesn't fit. (and let me know where it would be better posted if you could!!)

I have been having a discussion about equality with a Dom.
He states that while both the Dom and the sub are worth as much as each other, they are not equal. Well I just don't get this? I might be opening myself up for a slaughtering but hey, i'm just trying to understand. (btw, this is based on a two person, male Dom, fem sub, 24/7 relationship)

I think (and I may be wrong, i'm not infallible after all!) that yes the two are worth as much as each other, and yes the power ratio is unequal, and that one leads the other follows. No qualms there.
But overall I look at it like a version of good and evil, or yin and yang.  two very opposite parts that make the whole, and are equal (perhaps not in a conventional sense, but we are talking D/s and not vanilla), because one cannot be greater than the other as they are limited by the other.

So how does equality come into it? Besides the obvious power part of it? (this includes what comes from it, day to day activities, choices etc).

To my way of thinking to be unequal means that one side is greater (to which he agreed and said the Dom was greater), but the Dom is limited by his perceptions and beliefs, and the subs limits and capabilities, and vise versa i would suggest. Or am I wrong there?

I may have missed something here, cos i'm just not getting it. Yes certain parts of the relationship are unequal, that is what gives it the D/s dynamic, but to say the two people invovled are not equal...as a good friend of mine said  "in essesnce they are equal - two different parts of the same whole - neither more or less than the other.... ".

I guess its just not sitting with me right, and i'm trying to find out why.
And yes I have asked him to explain it differently so that I might understand, obiously it's not working, haha.

All thoughts are welcome, if you need me to expand or clarify anything just ask.

Thanks
Rayne
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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:18:35 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		The emotional investment from both parties should be equal. The dynamic, obviously, is specifically unequal it its manifestations, but even that is something that should naturally balance out the wants/needs of each individual.

The value of both to the relationship should be equal, but the deference in importance normally is given to the D-type.


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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:23:50 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Nothing in life is equal. No two people are equal. I am not equal to Master. I accept this and actually like it this way.

His power in our relationship is greater than mine and that's why I'm with him to begin with.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:26:55 PM   
BeIgnited


Posts: 191
Joined: 6/23/2008
Status: offline 		Sounds like something of a semantics issue.

It seems like you two agree on the basic premise--that sub and dom are of equal worth (I'd agree too)--but differ from there?

It's hard to take "greater" in the context you described as anything other than "better". Maybe taking it away from abstraction could help sort this out. Have you asked him what "greater" would mean in real life? Does greater mean more orgasms for the Dom always? That the sub always does his laundry? That his needs come first always?

You're not going to find any one answer that spans across all of BDSM, just opinions, none of which are arguably any more valid than another.

If you're looking at this guy as a potential partner and his idea of 'equality' doesn't match up with yours, you might want to chalk it up to incompatibility and move on.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:27:48 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		No. I do not believe in equality. Not between men and myself; not between myself and other women. Cut it up any way you want; put up every example of 'so called equality' that you can come up with; my stance will not change.
What's more. I don't want, or need, equality. I don't need to be treated equally; in any way, shape or form.
I prefer, instead...to be treated as a unique individual.

It's that simple.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:28:49 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BeIgnited

You're not going to find any one answer that spans across all of BDSM, just opinions, none of which are arguably any more valid than another.

If you're looking at this guy as a potential partner and his idea of 'equality' doesn't match up with yours, you might want to chalk it up to incompatibility and move on.

25 points.


_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:30:05 PM   
DVsFox


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		My Owner and I are equals on a very pure, basic level.  We're both human beings with the exact same amount of worth and we have a passionate love for one another.  For me, basic equality is undeniable.  Relationship dynamics don't change that.  We have very different roles in our relationship.  She is the dominant power in our relationship and I am her slave.  Like I said, we have very different roles.  This doesn't make us unequal on a basic level, it just means we have different roles.

DV's Fox

< Message edited by DVsFox -- 4/16/2009 6:31:17 PM >

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:34:30 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		im kind of reminded of a sarcastic quote about now " your unique just like everybody else"

while i have the same value as a human being as my partner, i have the same worth as him. Im also reminded of Aquaticsubs sig line at one point (sorry if its mangled) With out my dominance there be no submission and with out your submission there can be no dominance we are equal in this though our roles are different.

some dont want equality thats great. but to me if a dom things his capital D makes his needs more important or my little s makes my needs points opinons or anything less valid, hes not the dom for me. but then everyones different. if my partner treated me like i was some how less for my submission or i was some how less in any way shape or form he wouldnt be my partner long.


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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:35:52 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		"He states that while both the Dom and the sub are worth as much as each other, they are not equal"

How are they not equal?? You'd hafta ask him that. As a Domme (and former sub), I don't agree with that at all. I think its a crock of shit. Maybe its why he's still single?!

Everyone is entitled to have their needs and desires properly addressed, IMHO.

When I was submissive, I had a great dom who really made me happy. He addressed my needs and desires, not just his own. I came back for more because it was yummy and fulfilling for both of us.

Whether sub or Dom, we will all vote with our feet and walk (or run) away if we're not getting what we want out of the relationship.

We all have an equal right to fulfillment, or self-actualization. I may deny my slave certain things at certain times, but he wouldn't be mine if we both didn't get off on that. Our needs and desires mesh nicely, or I wouldn't own him because it wouldn't help us both get them met.

Edited to add: I'm not sure if I answered your question because I'm not feeling very well and couldn't really read your post all the way through. I'm just in pain. Pretty much I just saw the sentence I quoted at the top and got miffed. That dom sounds like bad news, if he's gonna be all "my needs and desires always trump yours." That is so much bullshit. I agree with hopelessfool, NihilusZero BeIgnited and DV's fabulous Fox.

*stepping off soapbox, taking a chill pill*

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 4/16/2009 6:46:27 PM >

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:37:56 PM   
Rayne749


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		Wow thanks for the quick replies.

IrishMist - I hate the word equality in the D/s sense personally...it seems out of place to me. And as you, I want to be treated as a unique individual also. To be honest i'd dont care much about holding myself up to another to see how equal we are. This is just a topic that we cant seem to put down. (as much as I want to, hence why im asking for opinions)

Littlewonder - I know I can't submit to any man who does not have a greater power than me, nor would I want to. That is agreed between me and this Dom.

Overall I have tried very hard to get what he is saying, though as of yet he hasnt been able to tell me what he means by unequal. It just keeps going back to, he is the Dom, what he says goes, kinda thing. We agree on everthing else that has been discussed about power, leadership etc.

I think i may be thinking on this too much!! lol.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:39:40 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

I think i may be thinking on this too much!! lol.

LOL I can almost guarantee that the minute you stop thinking and fretting about this; his meaning will come clear to you.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 6:39:40 PM   
Rayne749


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		DVsFox - That is exactly what I am trying to say, albeit in a bad way!! 

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 7:04:47 PM   
kitastrophe33


Posts: 85
Joined: 9/3/2007
Status: offline 		I tend to think of it as equal in value but not equal in role. My partner and I have equal worth as human beings. But I know my role is to serve him...and there's nowhere I'm more comfortable than on my knees in front of him. And really, both of us are better people because of our different roles...

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 7:10:23 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		The dominant is not necessarily bigger or better, but has the greater authority (or power) because that has been agreed to.  Each person’s contributions to the success of the relationship may be different but should be equal. 

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 7:30:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Let's compare it to a surgeon and nurse. The surgeon can't operate on his own. He needs the nurse to monitor the machines, pass him tools, check the iv. She is equal in value but she doesn't decide what to do, where to make the incision, etc.

However, I'm wary of someone declaring with chest thumps that this is how it is but he can't explain it. You have as much right to make decisions concerning whether or not the relationship continues as he does. You have as much right to have your needs fulfilled. You have as much right to be in a relationship that makes you happy.

So how does he see things working out? What happens when you need something and he doesn't? Does he expect you to be happy doing without, not getting your needs met, solely serving him?

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 7:57:49 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Dreamer, Dv, and Des...that is what I believe.
It is why it is hard for me to play the "big bad domme" when people call me just for that.

I am actually a slave...
But I know my worth.
And I know the worth of those who call me.

I choose to serve those who I look up to.
There are not a lot of those.
But even though I do look up to them...
I still do not feel "less than"

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 8:03:21 PM   
Rayne749


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		Just to be clear, I have been speaking to this gentleman on this topic for a couple of days, not met him in person (thats a whole different thread!) and prob not going to it seems.

dreamerdreaming - Yes I have asked him why they are not equal. in quite plain language, and still haven't got a clear answer. It is quite possible i am just misinterpreting him....repeatedly..hehe.

The reason i'm posting this here is that i'm not understanding him, not for lack of trying though. Im hoping that through hearing others opinions and thoughts on it, it might expand my thinking enough to help me understand.

Yes, I do think too much!

< Message edited by Rayne749 -- 4/16/2009 8:05:55 PM >

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 8:04:08 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Dreamer, Dv, and Des...that is what I believe.
It is why it is hard for me to play the "big bad domme" when people call me just for that.

I am actually a slave...
But I know my worth.
And I know the worth of those who call me.

I choose to serve those who I look up to.
There are not a lot of those.
But even though I do look up to them...
I still do not feel "less than"

Ok, I actually have a serious question. You are not the only person who I have seen say something like this within a discussion of equality...that  being made to feel inequal is being made to feel less than.

Why do you feel that way?
I mean, do you seriously think that equality has anything to do with being made to feel better or less than?

I am serious; not picking and not looking for a brawl...for a change  I am just curious why some come to this conclusion about the equality debate.


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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 10:53:05 PM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
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Status: offline 		The Yin/Yang reference is a good one. In My experience, the Dom and sub make up two equal parts of a whole working unit. It's when there's inequality that things begin to fall apart.

The simple fact is that One is Dominant and one is submissive. The roles are mutually supportive and again, therefore, equal.

If it fulfils the sub to feel "les than", so be it, and vice versa. Outside of fulfilling emotional needs, the fact remains that the two sides ARE equal. Simple as that.

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RE: Equality within D/s - 4/16/2009 11:18:35 PM   
Rayne749


Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline 		Fitznicely - Thanks for your post, that is another point I have been considering, You say "It's when there's inequality that things begin to fall apart".
To my way of thinking how can a healthy relationship (D/s or otherwise) be built when there is a basic inequality there?

IrishMist - I would think that if a sub is made to feel better or less than anyone, it still doesn't negate any equality. It is simply part of the power dynamic.  Not sure if that's what you meant, but it's my take on it.

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