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Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 6:52:10 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		My backward thinking, or more aptly put, thinking in reverse has brought me to another question. As usual I am not looking for the normal answer, I guess I am looking for an abnormal answer, so where do I go for that ?  Right here !

Now I can give you a reasonable hypothesis on why Women used to wear skirts and dresses, I have learned why pants are plural, all kinds of neat useless information, but this one defies me.

Formal attire, a tie. A tie is a surprisingly strong piece of cloth, cut and sewn to become the standard tie for businesswear, formal occasions and the like, but why ?

The way a standard tie is tied, someone can just walk up and strangle you with it, just hold the knot and pull the second "cord". This is something that bondage enthusiasts are taught not to do, to use something like that around a person's neck, yet millions of Men do it every day.

How did this tradition come about ? Who's bright idea was it to cause such vulnerability ?

I am really at a loss on this one.

T
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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 6:54:10 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		Ties started out as a means to hold on the collar, which was not originally attached to the shirt.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 6:57:33 AM   
LookieNoNookie


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I think what's even more fascinating is how men's hats came about...but equally as interesting....how they disappeared as a style accessory so abruptly in the early 60's, as if by a light switch.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:05:17 AM   
subtlebutterfly


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People are slaves to their jobs. (even though you own your own company you can't just walk away because otherwise it'll fall apart..there's an invisible chain between you n the job)
Slaves used to wear chains on their ancles/hands whateva which in a way showed their status, they were laborers.
More educated people needed a different status symbol which resulted in a tie since they had the most "mental skills" and didn't do the labor work.


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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:05:23 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		     I couldn't tell you the why, Termy, but I do know that the Jerry Garcia brand make it a lot easier for me to put one on four days a week. 

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:13:05 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Arp, the collar ? Think of that.

Looki, I've heard that people lose alot of body heat through the head. That might explain the hats. I myself never wear hats, and have only worn a tie about three times in my life.

Now the collar might be explainable for warmth in the winter, and something to tie it on would follow. Worth a thought, but I don't think it answers the question......

How did it become such a universal tradition ? Of what is it a symbol if not vulnerability ? Or is it a vulnerability planned to exude an air of strength, as in "Go ahead MF and try it". ?

T

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:15:30 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		subtl, what are you saying here, is it a veiled form of BDSM ?

T

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:16:40 AM   
IrishMist


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Status: offline 		LOL Term, you kill me sometimes. You are worse at questions than the teenager is.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:18:11 AM   
subtlebutterfly


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yup nah not necessarily I was thinkin' status symbol..pecking order..
just a wild guess


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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:19:53 AM   
YoursMistress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

    I couldn't tell you the why, Termy, but I do know that the Jerry Garcia brand make it a lot easier for me to put one on four days a week. 


What blew me away about the Jerry Garcia ties was that another brand, called "Molecular Expressions" was based upon photomicrographs of various chemical compounds and looked almost exactly like the ones Jerry was doing.  I suppose that an abundance of mind-altering drugs could give one the ability to observe the universe at the molecular level.  I'm not anxious to try, however. 

yours


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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 7:21:12 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

The way a standard tie is tied, someone can just walk up and strangle you with it,

why can i not stop laughing at this?


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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 8:23:47 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		      I've seen the Molecular Expressions, but have only liked a few.  I see a lot more diversity in the Garcias.  As I understand it, the company uses small sections of his drawings and art for the designs, and then reproduce them in varying colors.  There are a couple like that on my tie hanger.

     Some of them even have a little pouch on the back side where you can put your ipod.  Neat innovation, that.  The damn things are expensive, though.  The department stores want $45 for one.  I get mine at a discount chain for $10, and work with the selection they have.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 8:30:21 AM   
littlewonder


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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 2:19:51 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		The tie is the most evident sartorial symbol of masculinity because it is like an arrow that hangs from the neck and that is pointed at the guy's wedding tackle and other family jewels.

"The stuff is *down there*."

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 2:54:42 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Arp, the collar ? Think of that.

Looki, I've heard that people lose alot of body heat through the head. That might explain the hats.


Well, that explains everything...global warming caused men to lose their hats.  Didn't need them anymore.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 4:04:54 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

The way a standard tie is tied, someone can just walk up and strangle you with it,

why can i not stop laughing at this?



Decades ago I thought about how wearing a tie might be used against me in a fight.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 4:07:01 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

The tie is the most evident sartorial symbol of masculinity because it is like an arrow that hangs from the neck and that is pointed at the guy's wedding tackle and other family jewels.

"The stuff is *down there*."


I perceive ties as submitting to conformity.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 4:35:33 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
I perceive ties as submitting to conformity.



      I see them as submitting to the office dress code.



      Kitten, if some need an arrow to get to the goodies, that is ok, I suppose.  As long as they understand it isn't to be used as a napkin. 

      Of course, if the wearer also has a suit jacket buttoned, you can't see the end of the tie anyway, and it becomes nothing more than a colorful vertical stripe for a slimming effect.  Another theory, dashed on the hard rocks of reality.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 4:35:37 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
I perceive ties as submitting to conformity.


Depends how it's worn. When Johnny Rotten wore a tire, it was everything BUT conformist.

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RE: Suit and tie, WHY ? - 4/19/2009 4:39:31 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
     Kitten, if some need an arrow to get to the goodies, that is ok, I suppose.  As long as they understand it isn't to be used as a napkin. 

     Of course, if the wearer also has a suit jacket buttoned, you can't see the end of the tie anyway, and it becomes nothing more than a colorful vertical stripe for a slimming effect.  Another theory, dashed on the hard rocks of reality.


You take everything so personally, boy oh boy...  .

"Ties which both hang flaccidly from the neck to the groin like a penis, and also point to it, are the very symbol of the phallus, which is so envied by other men and women not for its actual qualities, as much as the social meaning attributed to the gender of its owner. The tie is thus a symbol of the domination of men over women, and of power in general.  Consequently, a ruling was made by a particular group...

"Ties Banned in Hanover Workplace as 'Phallic Symbols'" 
SEXISM ROW AS WOMAN ORDERS MALE CLERKS...TAKE OFF YOUR TIES 
HANOVER, WEST GERMANY (AUG. 28) REUTER - Male civil servants in a West German office are hot under the collar after their female boss banned neckties as phallic symbols.

"the necktie constantly reminds the wearer that his employer, the federal government, and significant others, all have the wearer by the neck... The necktie functions like the ring in the nose of the bull, the bit in the mouth of the horse. A necktie is a rope around the neck, a choke collar inviting enslavement that is constantly accepted..." ( The Washington Post, 12/23/94).

“I notice that the tie looks suspiciously like an arrow. Now, assuming a tie is an arrow, what is this arrow pointing to? Yep, that is correct. The “arrow” is pointing down to the penis. Now, if you look around in a typical office space, you’ll no doubt notice that only males wear a tie. What does this say? That males want their penises noticed? If you think about it, it makes sense. Back in the day when it was more socially acceptable to claim that the men were in charge of the world (it was during a time before women let men on the little secret that they in fact control the world… Wise man once said, “she who controls sex controls the man and in essence, the world”) the men would put on these phallic symbols of their supposed superiority and flaunt their power (i.e. penis) around like they were kings.”
 
http://www.centurionministry.org/body/necktie.htm



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