Political Correctness ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:07:16 AM)

This political correctness that is messing up our world, most recently seen at the UN racism conference, over what defines racism, where did  the notion of political correctness all come from ?

Where did political correctness originate, to whom or where can the finger be pointed, who caused it ? Everyone is fed up with it, it serves little purpose except to hinder, so why are we so obsessed with it ?

So often I hear people saying, ' oh, you can't say that, political correctness and all that ', why, what is wrong with words, if a word adequately describes a thing, why should it be disallowed in favour of a word which is ''politically correct'' ?

Who decides what words are politically correct, is there an annual meeting where the words are discussed, or is it anyone decides what can and cannot be said ?

I first came across political correctness when I used to be a Civil Engineer, the '' manholes '', ( referring to a lidded access hole to sewers) had to be called personel access chambers, apparently, because it is not just men that access them, true enough, we had female engineers, but they called them man holes, not the politically correct term. In the words of one female engineer who was asked to change her terminology, and I remember this, she said, what a complete load of bollocks, who cares what is called. But the council insisted on the correct terminology and even went to lengths to change all existing plans and records to the new terminology, like, oodles of money and time wasted for a description of a thing that had an adequate description already.

When can we see the end of this lunacy ?




subtlebutterfly -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:18:44 AM)

Nothing wrong with being politically incorrect. However some people that are in a position where they're supposed to representatives of certain matters should keep their personal opinions to themselves.




RCdc -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:22:48 AM)

Some political correctness rocks.  I am all for replacing stupid words like manhole - I mean, seriously?
Besides, people that bemoan political correctness only want an excuse to continue being rude most of the time.  You get the whole ' I am going to speak how I darn well like and if you find it offensive that is your problem'... that is bull.  Both the listener and the speaker are equally as responsible.
 
I am pretty bored of the whole PC debate really.  Words evolve and change all the time and that is all it really is.  So in answer to your question.  No.  Get used to it.
 
the.dark.




camille65 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:26:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

This political correctness = sensitivity that is messing up our world, most recently seen at the UN racism conference, over what defines racism, where did  the notion of political correctness all come from ? A guy named Bob.

Where did political correctness = sensitivity originate, to whom or where can the finger be pointed, it isn't polite to point fingers, it could hurt someones feelings. who caused it ? That guy named Bob. Everyone is fed up with it, it serves little purpose except to hinder, so why are we so obsessed = great concern with it ?

So often I hear people saying, ' oh, you can't say that, political correctness and all that ', why, what is wrong with words, if a word adequately describes a thing, why should it be disallowed in favour of a word which is ''politically correct'' ? Because Bob says so.

Who decides what words are politically correct, is there an annual meeting where the words are discussed, or is it anyone decides what can and cannot be said ? Yes, it is a secret meeting held in a secret chamber in a secret location. Run by Bob.

I first came across political correctness when I used to be a Civil Engineer, the '' manholes '', ( referring to a lidded access hole to sewers) had to be called personel access chambers, apparently, because it is not just men that access them, true enough, we had female engineers, but they called them man holes, not the politically correct term. In the words of one female engineer who was asked to change her terminology, and I remember this, she said, what a complete load of bollocks, who cares what is called. But the council insisted on the correct terminology and even went to lengths to change all existing plans and records to the new terminology, like, oodles of money and time wasted for a description of a thing that had an adequate description already.

When can we see the end of this lunacy ? Only when Bob gets his mouth stapled shut.

I agree. It has been taken too far. The concept I think is a good one, being aware of how words can effect others in a hurtful or negative way. That some traditional words/phrases exclude races or genders. The aura of fear that has been created has warped the concept IMO and people are simply afraid of being seen as _____ biased, add to that the ability to sue for financial damages if one is found guilty of being ______ biased in the workplace.
That workplace has overtaken our lives, has become such a large part of daily life.

Or just blame Bob.





Aneirin -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:28:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Some political correctness rocks.  I am all for replacing stupid words like manhole - I mean, seriously?
Besides, people that bemoan political correctness only want an excuse to continue being rude most of the time.  You get the whole ' I am going to speak how I darn well like and if you find it offensive that is your problem'... that is bull.  Both the listener and the speaker are equally as responsible.
 
I am pretty bored of the whole PC debate really.  Words evolve and change all the time and that is all it really is.  So in answer to your question.  No.  Get used to it.
 
the.dark.


The thing is though D, in order for a word to be rude, you have to define what rude is, and what is rude to one person might not be rude to another. So what is it, is political correctness a means  to achieve a recognised standard for a word, that everyone should use, if so, who decides these words, where does it all originate ?




RCdc -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:32:37 AM)

Oh please.  You know that there are some general offensive words out there.  Whenever I see someone using justification for using them, they throw up the whole stupid PC debate.  It's like that thread on radical honesty.  That is just another name for brutal honesty and the whole 'I just tell it as it is' brigade.  People who lack empathy and who want to cover their ass by calling out PC is wrong are not doing so to save the world and peoples freedom of speach, only themselves.
 
the.dark.




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 9:37:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

This political correctness that is messing up our world, most recently seen at the UN racism conference, over what defines racism, where did  the notion of political correctness all come from ?



I think the hint is in the title.

quote:

When can we see the end of this lunacy ?


When there is a willingness to examine words with truth, instead of concentrating on how they are being used, makes us feel.

Perhaps if, at the above mentioned event, someone had just said,; “we’re here in hopes of finding ways, of getting past all racism” (or something like that), the meeting could still have been productive.

Kim




slvemike4u -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:24:46 AM)

Who the fuck is this Bob guy?




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:28:53 AM)

Possibly the one from the movie, "What about Bob?". *shrugs*

Kim




popeye1250 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:31:44 AM)

Political Correctness was *real big* in Germany in the 1930's.




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:33:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Political Correctness was *real big* in Germany in the 1930's.


Are you saying Bob stole the idea? [:D]

Kim 




camille65 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:34:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Who the fuck is this Bob guy?


[8|] I just pulled the name out of thin air.
I apologize to any Bobs that I may have offended!!!
[:D]




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 10:38:55 AM)

Meet Bob ...




UncleNasty -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:05:07 AM)

There are plusses and minuses.

On the one hand racial slurs and derogatory gender terms are probably good to eliminate.

On the other, calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is akin to calling a drug dealer an unregistered pharmacist.

There are useful and reasonable limits, but also many instances where the "newspeak," or that kind of neurolinguistic programming, oversteps. One effect of the PC "movement" is that is has created, or helped to create and encourage, many classes of victims and accorded victim status (also perhaps called "special rights") to most groups, sets, or subsets of American society. Again, some of this was needed. And also again, some of it oversteps. Interestingly the only group or class I know of that has not been accorded victim status is white, heterosexual males.

I have come up with a response I use sometimes when a party I am speaking with attempts to invalidate or delegitimze me, or my position, by playing the PC card. This is usually done in a knee jerk and overly emotional reactionary ways (and doesn't it seem that PC "stuff" has a tendency to be based solely on emotion, sometimes to the point of complete irrationality). My response is "Are you bringing this to my attention so that we might have a meaningful discussion, or are you denying my right to my own thoughts and feelings and my rights to express them?"

One instance of the above was during a political rally for a local democratic State Representative. Some of us had been given the volunteer task of making posterboard signs. I suggested we needed some "colored markers" to help them stand out more. Another volunteer rather angrily said "You can't call them 'colored markers.' You have to call them 'markers of color.'" When I gave her my response she became visably more angry, so much so that she didn't respond at all and stormed away. I don't know why my original comment made her so angry, and never did find out, but I suspect she had some deeper internal issues than racial equality, or perhaps an agenda of her own which she was trying to progress by utilizing the control of others that playing a PC card can facilitate.

An example of that sort of agenda is embodied in people like Al Shaprton and his abuse of Tawana Brawley. If you don't know, or don't recall, that event a simple google search should turn up lots of hits.

Uncle Nasty





kdsub -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:07:31 AM)

It is an attempt to be civilized… a shame it’s not native to our way of thinking.

Butch




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is an attempt to be civilized… a shame it’s not native to our way of thinking.

Butch



Rephase:

Wouldn't it be more productive to stop attempting to be civilized, and work at being more responsable?

Kim




LaTigresse -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:17:15 AM)

My thoughts on the issue of PC......... I refuse to care.

My grandmother and great aunt worked very hard to instill manners in me. Granted, she wasn't sucessful in all areas but for the most part......not bad.

So, I just do my level best to be considerate of other people, show I was raised with some small amount of manners, and go from there. If it's not good enough, if I happen to type/utter a word that is not currently PC, I am not going to get my panties in a wad over it. If someone else does, not my problem.




MichiganHeadmast -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:24:46 AM)

Political correctness is SO gay!

(Ducking for cover)




cpK69 -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 11:27:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Political correctness is SO gay!

(Ducking for cover)



.... bright in color?!?

Kim 




Apocalypso -> RE: Political Correctness ? (4/21/2009 12:58:30 PM)

Political correctness is a massive strawman.  It's a card played by people who think that "free speech" means that they should be free to say what they like, but that people shouldn't have the freedom to criticise them for it.

This article pretty much sums it up for me- http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1724446,00.html  I'll post a couple of extracts, but it's well worth reading in full:

To align yourself with the powerful and then take aim at the powerless takes not one ounce of valour. To prop up prevailing hierarchies and orthodoxies rather than challenge them demands not a scintilla of bravery.

....

It may still be the right thing to do - the weak should not be protected from criticism nor the strong denied praise solely on the grounds of their relative material strength. But those who choose Goliath's corner cannot then claim underdog status once David gets out his slingshot.

......

There was a time when such words as "darkie", "paki", "puff", "spastic" and "coloured" were common currency. We have abandoned them for the same reason we no longer burn witches at the stake or stick orphaned children in the poor house. We have moved on. That's not political correctness but social and political progress. Not imposed by liberal diktat, but established by civic consensus. Those who are unwilling or unable to move on are welcome to those words and views. But like anyone else who engages in antisocial behaviour, once they act on those impulses they must live with the consequences of those actions. They might be crude, crass or contrarian; insensitive, ignorant or in denial. But whatever else they are, they are not brave.






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