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RE: Culpability - 4/23/2009 9:25:06 AM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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for agirl,

sorry its a bit long winded, but it basically gives you the levels you were asking about, i didnt paste in the slave category, but thats another level too.

apologies for the hijack, wasnt sure where else to put it.

This is the core and substantial difference between the two terms. Within the BDSM community this can be interpreted in this way. The submissive individual may be lightly, moderately or heavily submissive. The submissive has a desire to submit to the direction of another person which in this community we call the Dominant or Top. Their submission may be quite limited in range, for example, they may only want and desire to release their submission in a limited fashion, for short amounts of time and within tightly confined arena's. This type of submissive will generally carry a long list of rules, boundaries, limits, requirements etc. which they require the Dominant to agree to prior to engaging their submissive aspect within the relationship. Other submissives will have a more moderate (this is the largest group) approach, a stronger desire to submit for longer periods of time with fewer restrictions, limitations and requirements. A small percentage of submissives will be heavily submissive. They desire and look for a full time partner to live with on a full time basis. Their nature is to seek to express their submission as often as possible with the fewest restrictions upon their chosen Dominant as possible. Generally their list of limitations, rules and requirements may be verbal, short and flexible.
Additionally there is the person that calls themselves submissive who prefers to seek out only casual contacts. This person is willing to submit only so far as to address their personal needs. Their orientation toward 'serving' the other person is almost nonexistent. They will have a list of personal needs and requirements and in large part do not care who fills them. These persons tend to be called the "DO ME" subs. In my opinion they are not submissives at all, not having the basic criteria of a 'desire to serve for the pleasure of another' that is the fundamental trait I identify as submissive and Dominant. For me personally, the 'do me sub' in my eyes is a vanilla person with a kink fetish desire.

edited to add:  and in amongst that you have as many variables as you have people, tastes and proclivities - gray areas, fuzzy areas and areas tailor made for the individuals involved.   basically nothing is set in stone.

< Message edited by InTonguesslave -- 4/23/2009 9:37:14 AM >


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aka lally


(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Culpability - 4/23/2009 1:14:30 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
Let's be clear here. If something is pushed, that the sub is fearful of and doesn't want ....then the dom is taking a gamble. If it turns out well, that gamble may pay off......depending on HOW he went about it. If it merely turned out well through chance and she STILL felt he hadn't taken her well-being into account sufficiently enough for HER to feel good about it........you are probably looking at the end-game. The gamble the dom is taking is losing her completely for something HE wanted for HIMSELF. You are looking at destroyed trust and that's NOT a gamble any responsible dom is aiming for or toys with on a whim.

You can pretty much measure the *depth* of my submission by the amount of trust I have. Remove that trust and you can bet your life that my submission will go with it.

The point is...in the type of M/s relationships you're speaking of .. the sub HAS that depth BECAUSE she trusts.(In the majority of cases).

The basic idea is to know thoroughly who and what you are submitting to. If you've entered into a dynamic where your thoughts and feelings AREN'T taken into account then THAT is what you've submitted to. It doesn't HAVE to be that way at all, but if you chose and agreed to that, then it's likely that is what you'll get.

no, i think what i said or meant to say is that things can be added to the agenda as you go.  the submissive may well offer an objection or a reluctance or a downright refusal to something that was not mentioned at the begining of the relationship or was and the submissive put it as a hard limit.  if the dominant said 'ok' then the submissive would have the right to assume the issue would not be brought up again.  therefore she has already informed him of her feelings.

Look, it's clear that if you have something that's a *hard limit* and it was accepted as such , she has every right to be miffed about it.

I'm not sure what you mean by * *things can be added to the agenda*.....The majority of what happens to me havn't been *discussed*...and the only agenda is that we continue to have the good relationship we've had for many years. That occurs when you both have your eye on what makes THAT happen. In a word...*care and responsibility*.

The things you've mentioned don't suggest *care and responsibility* to me.

agirl





(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Culpability - 4/23/2009 1:26:52 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

for agirl,

sorry its a bit long winded, but it basically gives you the levels you were asking about, i didnt paste in the slave category, but thats another level too.

apologies for the hijack, wasnt sure where else to put it.

This is the core and substantial difference between the two terms. Within the BDSM community this can be interpreted in this way. The submissive individual may be lightly, moderately or heavily submissive. The submissive has a desire to submit to the direction of another person which in this community we call the Dominant or Top. Their submission may be quite limited in range, for example, they may only want and desire to release their submission in a limited fashion, for short amounts of time and within tightly confined arena's. This type of submissive will generally carry a long list of rules, boundaries, limits, requirements etc. which they require the Dominant to agree to prior to engaging their submissive aspect within the relationship. Other submissives will have a more moderate (this is the largest group) approach, a stronger desire to submit for longer periods of time with fewer restrictions, limitations and requirements. A small percentage of submissives will be heavily submissive. They desire and look for a full time partner to live with on a full time basis. Their nature is to seek to express their submission as often as possible with the fewest restrictions upon their chosen Dominant as possible. Generally their list of limitations, rules and requirements may be verbal, short and flexible.
Additionally there is the person that calls themselves submissive who prefers to seek out only casual contacts. This person is willing to submit only so far as to address their personal needs. Their orientation toward 'serving' the other person is almost nonexistent. They will have a list of personal needs and requirements and in large part do not care who fills them. These persons tend to be called the "DO ME" subs. In my opinion they are not submissives at all, not having the basic criteria of a 'desire to serve for the pleasure of another' that is the fundamental trait I identify as submissive and Dominant. For me personally, the 'do me sub' in my eyes is a vanilla person with a kink fetish desire.

edited to add:  and in amongst that you have as many variables as you have people, tastes and proclivities - gray areas, fuzzy areas and areas tailor made for the individuals involved.   basically nothing is set in stone.


OK........Thanks for defining what you meant to say. I've read this type of thing many times over the years.

These are *types of submission* by *types of people*. I was wondering what you meant by *depth* really. But I'm clear what you were referring to now, anyway.

agirl








(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Culpability - 4/24/2009 9:07:01 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
Thanks, CD, for your clarification.  I’ll concede the 99.5%, certainly!  There are the obvious situations, of course, where misperceptions are the direct result of exaggerations if not out right lies that someone may put out there.  In a benign sense, sometimes we try to create a persona that we want people to believe of us because that is who we wish we could be.  I have a friend who acts tough and uncaring, probably a defense mechanism, but once I got to know her I discovered she really is just a softie!
Like you, I question the idea that I should take much responsibility if someone chooses to misconstrue my actions.  My ex-husband was (probably still is) pathologically jealous.  It didn’t matter that I was not having affairs, he was suspicious and accusatory any time I was out of the house.  At first I tried very hard to make sure he could find me where I said I’d be.  When even that failed I gave up. 
Yes, for the greater percentage of times, what we do and say does affect those who are in our lives, whether or not we want to be held accountable for how those words and deeds make them feel.   I have known people when I told them my feelings were hurt, responded with “That’s your problem.”  My thoughts on that are:  Nooo, the reality is, it definitely is OUR problem.  If it is not addressed, it will just be compounded.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 44
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