RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (Full Version)

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Goddess2002 -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 4:18:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

How could romantic feelings for your sub cloud your judgment, Goddess2002?  In what ways does that manifest?  Romantic feelings for a sub can only be a good thing for both D and s, surely?


Generally romantic feelings can be a good thing peon...I suppose I'm still trying to learn from my last D/s relationship with one who I was very much in love with, but who took a bit of advantage of that. I ultimately dismissed him when I came to grips with the understanding that his "do me" sub mentality was never going to really change....and that MY needs would never fully be met.

Oh, well...on to the next...[;)]




PeonForHer -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 5:54:24 PM)

Ah.  I see what you mean now.  In essence, your romantic feelings clouded your ability to understand yourself and what you needed.   That's a shame.

As you say, though - onto the next.  Good luck.




LovingMistress45 -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 6:19:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

That's one of the things that got me to thinking about the possibility of 'dominant-guilt', PS.  If it's felt to be unmanly to want to be used, controlled and especially hurt, maybe it feels unwomanly to want to do such using, controlling - and especially hurting.


All I can say is I have never felt any guilt about wanting to use, control or hurt - and definantly it doesn't make feel "unwomanly."




LovingMistress45 -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 6:25:54 PM)

I have never wanted own someone I didn't love, and I don't think I would.  Own has a lot of implications to me and I can't see my wanting that without also loving.  The first time I wanted to own someone I was head over heals, gushy mushy "in love" and I also got my heart broken when it ended.  Since then there have been a few others that I have wanted to own and I loved them, not like the first, but then again I don't think that is neccessary.




PeonForHer -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 6:49:46 PM)

Never felt guilt, LM? 

I think what I wonder about most of all on this subject is how girls feel as they grow up and discover those first feelings of wanting to 'use, control or hurt'.  I sure do know it was a strange and not entirely welcome feeling for me when I first had the yearnings to have those things done to me.  I'd bet many subs would say the same.   




LadyHibiscus -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 8:55:52 PM)

It's true, I have never felt guilty about any of the consensual stuff I do...  but for the longest time, I vehemently denied that I was a sadist!  For me, a sadist was a stormtrooper, or someone who like to torture animals, not Little Me.  Hugh helped me accept that term, and be happy about it. 




DemonKia -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/25/2009 9:58:22 PM)

PeonForHer, I had freaky urges very young (in a much broader sense than mere kink stuff), & there were a lot of pressures, messages, etc 'herding' my behavior on all kinds of levels . ..... . On the other hand, I identified as a 'proud freak' very early & started focusing on 'channeling' appropriately . .. . . & I identified as a sadist before I found kink . . . . ..

I do notice specific embarrassment / guilt / etc stuff around my sadomasochism, in both directions, as it does violate norms no matter which way the whip is thrown, & that's part of the thrill & the struggle . ... .

In retrospect, before I started exploring my BDSM stuff I was sublimating my SM stuff all kinds of ways . . . . Horror films, for example, I used to really really be into horror flicks, & it was definitely a taking-my-inner-sadomasochist-for-a-romp stuff in hindsight . . . . .

& my mother & I 'battled' over the horror thing, she acted as if it was some kind of behavioral defect to like horror films, or a childish phase to be grown out of, long past my childhood . . .. .. Which echoed the culture at large, with its ongoing waves of hysteria about the pernicious influence of horror films & cinematic violence & so on & so forth . . . .

& I've always had both a temper & I do throw tantrums, so I find guilt & shame to have utility for keeping my excesses in check. I can be a huge ass, so I try to aim for some kind of counterbalancing humility. & ya know how tough that is for us domly types [;)]




jstmi -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:27:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lady H, maybe the answer lies in basic nature, almost everybody wants to be loved, few want to be owned. So to allow oneself to completely give oneself to another, then we need to feel loved first.


Politesub53

beautifully said, it is so important to feel loved first, reassured that love is the reason you are to be owned as well.

becky_M2{a}




Steponme73 -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 7:00:51 AM)

I think I would have to agree with most here that they go hand in hand.  I can not iamgine being owned by someone who did not love me.  In fact, I would not be a part of that relationship. 




LovingMistress45 -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 11:03:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Never felt guilt, LM? 

I think what I wonder about most of all on this subject is how girls feel as they grow up and discover those first feelings of wanting to 'use, control or hurt'.  I sure do know it was a strange and not entirely welcome feeling for me when I first had the yearnings to have those things done to me.  I'd bet many subs would say the same.   


Honestly peon, no I have never felt guilt about my kinks.  I also have never had a desire to hurt someone that doesn't want to be hurt, so maybe that is why I don't feel guilty about it.  Now if I did something that hurt you in a non-kink way I would most likely feel bad because I really don't desire to hurt people in that manner.

As for when I was becoming aware of my desires, I started in spanking fetish and really don't remember any negative feelings about it and it started at a very young age.  I have posted on other threads that I also have a masochistic side which I explored in the spanking fetish scene.  I never felt guilty or sick about those desires.  As far as being a Mistress, owning someone, being served or other bdsm activities I shunned those for a long time, not my kink, not interested ect, but not out of guilt.  A man I met through spanking fetish that became my sub is the one that opened all those kinky doors for me and I found I loved every bit of it.  Maybe because it was with him that I discovered it and it was such an intense and loving relationship there was never any question in my mind that it was good so no need for guilt.

I have known several male doms that had trouble with their desire to hurt a woman because it conflicted with the way they were raised.




PeonForHer -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 1:50:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingMistress45

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Never felt guilt, LM? 

I think what I wonder about most of all on this subject is how girls feel as they grow up and discover those first feelings of wanting to 'use, control or hurt'.  I sure do know it was a strange and not entirely welcome feeling for me when I first had the yearnings to have those things done to me.  I'd bet many subs would say the same.   


quote:

Honestly peon, no I have never felt guilt about my kinks.  I also have never had a desire to hurt someone that doesn't want to be hurt, so maybe that is why I don't feel guilty about it.  Now if I did something that hurt you in a non-kink way I would most likely feel bad because I really don't desire to hurt people in that manner.


Thanks for saying that, LM.  It's actually something I've been wondering recently about dominants and those with sadistic inclinations more particularly.

quote:

As for when I was becoming aware of my desires, I started in spanking fetish and really don't remember any negative feelings about it and it started at a very young age.  I have posted on other threads that I also have a masochistic side which I explored in the spanking fetish scene.  I never felt guilty or sick about those desires.  As far as being a Mistress, owning someone, being served or other bdsm activities I shunned those for a long time, not my kink, not interested ect, but not out of guilt.  A man I met through spanking fetish that became my sub is the one that opened all those kinky doors for me and I found I loved every bit of it.  Maybe because it was with him that I discovered it and it was such an intense and loving relationship there was never any question in my mind that it was good so no need for guilt.

I have known several male doms that had trouble with their desire to hurt a woman because it conflicted with the way they were raised.


That last sentence is very telling.  To me, it suggests that those dominant males have actually listened to what they've been told - at home, and by those who are socially concerned outside of the home.  Notwithstanding the dilemmas of those male doms (who no doubt realise that ill-treatment of women is by far the larger problem), it's encouraging.

I'm glad, from what you and other women here have said, that you've grown up largely guilt-free (albeit with the sadistic impulse causing some qualms).  God, you know, I do often think we involved in D/s do have it relatively easy.  Gays, lesbians and feminists fought so many of the hardest battles for us all in the past. I do feel so grateful to them. 




ShaktiSama -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 4:50:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
It's true, I have never felt guilty about any of the consensual stuff I do...  but for the longest time, I vehemently denied that I was a sadist!  For me, a sadist was a stormtrooper, or someone who like to torture animals, not Little Me.  Hugh helped me accept that term, and be happy about it. 


I find that I have to use the term very provisionally even now.  However, the right masochist can provide a positive context for the word.  To a masochist, the word "sadist" translates as "person who turns me on, makes me happy, and does yummy things to my bod", which is pretty easy to cop to.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:21:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
It's true, I have never felt guilty about any of the consensual stuff I do...  but for the longest time, I vehemently denied that I was a sadist!  For me, a sadist was a stormtrooper, or someone who like to torture animals, not Little Me.  Hugh helped me accept that term, and be happy about it. 


I find that I have to use the term very provisionally even now.  However, the right masochist can provide a positive context for the word.  To a masochist, the word "sadist" translates as "person who turns me on, makes me happy, and does yummy things to my bod", which is pretty easy to cop to.



I can handle that definition!  Because for me, if they are only "tolerating" it and not having fun... I am not having fun either.




aidan -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:30:17 PM)

On the subject of suppressing urges and feeling guilt...

I understand entirely why people might feel ambivalent about their desires, especially if they are dominant or sadistic. It can be some thing traumatic to realize. Personally though, I never labored under such conceptions. Perhaps it's related to my ego (read: quite large), but I never felt like I was weird or strange or twisted in a negative sense. I've always felt more sane than the majority of people around me anyway. My problem came from thinking nobody would ever accept me, rather than being unacceptable (I know that's a fine distinction, but there is a difference if ya ken.)

One of the problems, and I've said this before, is that the language we adopt to describe ourselves has much broader, more storied meaning and weight behind it than our specialized definitions. A sadist, in the larger world, is something abominable. In our specific context though, sadists are (generally) good and loving and caring people not in spite of but precisely because of their natural desires. A sadist with a masochist should feel no more guilt than water with a root, and vice versa. This can be a difficult hurdle for many to jump.

I am glad that I bring out Mistress' sadistic urges and that she feels no compunction about them with me. ^__^




LadyHibiscus -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:31:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

A sadist with a masochist should feel no more guilt than water with a root, and vice versa.



This is a lovely analogy, aidan!




DemonKia -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:42:46 PM)

I wanna jump in on this language thing.

'Good' & 'bad', 'right' & 'wrong' are judgements; terms like 'sadist' & 'masochist' are descriptives . . . . . While some may attach their judgements to descriptives, that does not deprive the rest of us of the ability to use descriptives to usefully describe qualities, actions, & etc in a more neutral manner . . . . . .

[:D]




PeonForHer -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:48:19 PM)

I can handle that definition!  Because for me, if they are only "tolerating" it and not having fun... I am not having fun either.
 
So you have to consider their fun then, do you, Lady Hib?  In my book, that makes you not a dominant but a "top". 

Right, *rubs hands*, let's get on with rehashing tiresome old argument No. 10!




PeonForHer -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 5:50:18 PM)

Sorry.  Frivolous comment.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 8:07:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I can handle that definition!  Because for me, if they are only "tolerating" it and not having fun... I am not having fun either.
 
So you have to consider their fun then, do you, Lady Hib?  In my book, that makes you not a dominant but a "top". 

Right, *rubs hands*, let's get on with rehashing tiresome old argument No. 10!


EGAD!  Not a fluffy service top!  I mean, shoot, I make them clean up their own bloodstains! [8D]




DaintyDemure -> RE: I own you/ I love you/ I care for you--semantic games? (4/26/2009 10:31:09 PM)

I don't actually expect the lovely ladies that own me to love me. Love is something they share with each other and is more special than I should ever expect as their pet. I do love them very deeply and probably could't serve them for long if I didn't. They do express their fondness for me and let me know that I am valuable to them. They make sure I feel needed and this is important to me. To be "Way to valuable to be running around free" is enough for me.




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