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RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/1/2009 12:10:26 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		To me, folks, if you can't ask your Dom or Master to help you in something like this -- to me, there is a major breakdown of communication.  I mean what would you do if you didn't HAVE the internet?   To me the BEST person you should feel the MOST comfortable turning to IS YOUR MASTER OR DOM.   I am honestly flabbergasted that people feel they can't talk to their Doms or Masters.  I mean heck even if you say it wrong, doesn't mean anything -- it simply means you will be corrected and hopefully trained in the way he wishes you to do things differently and you will learn.  Eventually you will get it right.  I mean most people didn't learn to walk before they scooted across the floor on their belly.  You have to be willing to make mistakes and understand its okay and a learning experience and its a process.

Sorry girls, but to me, you are missing something big time if you are that nervous of talking to the Man who owns you.  To me that should be the ONE person out of everyone you DO turn too.  Perhaps if you don't, you really need to reevaluate what this whole concept is -- actions really isn't all its about -- its about the connection, the learning, the depending upon, and the trust that he will train you when you mess up and perfection isn't YOURS to achieve but his to define.

Communication is the key -- there were times when i was a slave i LOST IT, in anger or upsetness and yes i actually YELLED things at him lol.  Now as you gasp and presume things, recognize something, i was safe and secure enough in my slavery to this Man because of his hold on me that even if i had to face consequences for my lack of protocol at times, i was still a slave when i lost it with him.  When i called him a dolt or an ass because he was being a block head.  The point i am making is -- i knew because i was very secure in his hold that my TRUST in him to be the Master allowed me to yeah mess up occassionally.  If he found out i was going behind his back asking others what i should do with regard to my own Master, he would have kicked my behind so hard he would have had to find new shoes and it would have EXTREMELY effected OUR relationship because he would see that as 1) disloyalty, 2) distrust on my part of him, and 3) my being scared of him.  

There is no way he would have that.  Trust your Men ladies, if you don't and can't go to him above all others, to me, you really need to look into what you are calling a relationship of this dynamic


angel


_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/1/2009 3:50:44 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

I have problems asking questions too...i do not always know the right way or the right question to ask. I have asked many questions of Doms here before i knew myself better and the way a Dominant man thinks better so i could ask my Husband better, I very much value all the help i have received here and i understand completely why people come here to learn before translating it to real life and i see absolutely nothing wrong with research.

quote CreativeDominant: "Sir...don't you think your punishments might be more effective and i would become a better submissive/slave if you explained a little more about why you are giving me one? "  That is passive-aggressive...the submissive already knows in her own mind that SHE thinks that the approach she has mentioned in her question would be more effective.  Alright then, have the guts...and the belief in your dynamic...to communicate that directly to your dominant:  "Sir, I've looked inside myself and I think your punishment of me would be more effective if I understood better why you are punishing me".    Now you've communicated honestly. 

Sir, to me the question remains the same: why are you doing this?
The first way of asking sounds like a suggestion or a plea...like please explain. And the second way of asking sounds maybe slightly like a critisism; your punishment of me is not good enough because i do not understand why you do it!

English is not my first language but even in my own language i do not always know how to formulate my thoughts or questions and like tinkerbell even not after i have thought about it sometimes for very long periods of time...is not the question in it self more important than the way it is asked?


Is it?  You're a wife.  Now, let's put you in a vanilla situation.  Hubby is waiting for you to get dressed so you two can go out to dinner.  You finally meet him in the living room.  He doesn't like the dress and so he asks you a couple of questions.  Tell me which set of questions you'd rather hear if you have to hear a question about your clothing choice...

Him:  Great Jumpin' Jesus'...why in God's name would you wear that godawful dress?  Don't you know how that shitty color makes your skin wash out and you end up looking like Ms. Marshmallow?

Him:  Honey, why did you choose that dress?  Don't you remember the last time you wore it and several people you respect mentioned that the color does absolutely nothing for all your positive aspects?

Now, add in D/s to the dynamic...an area in which communication is indeed vital, as many---including myself---have noted but one in which the way communication takes place has also been laid down as being important.

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/1/2009 4:44:35 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		I don't have the time, will or patience to listen to every whim, fancy or concern. I like peace and quiet from time to time, and it really isn't about alleviating someone's anxieties for me. You have to be responsible with communication, too.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/1/2009 4:45:16 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Interesdom)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/2/2009 3:16:45 AM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1751
Status: offline 		Hello Folks,

I have to agree with Northern Gent, I don't always have the time, patience or inclination to answer incessant questions.  I have heard it said, "there are no stupid questions", or, "the only stupid question is one that is not asked".   Frankly I think there are plenty of stupid questions, and if a person has to say, "I probably shouldn't ask this"...that person is right, they probably shouldn't.

There ARE times and places to ask questions, there ARE ways to ask questions.   Do I think communication is vital to any relationship?  Of course I do.  I do however expect people to do their due diligence, and ask intelligent questions.  Someone said something about the passive/agressive questions.  That seems to occur frequently, I like questions that are pertinent to a conversation, well thought out, and are simple, honest and to the point.

Another thing about questions, which my Free Companion and I often tell his almost 18 year old um who lives with us, don't ask a question you don't want an answer to.  I think this holds true with everyone.  Or, an question is asked, it's answered.  BUT, the answer isn't what the person wanted to hear.  Too bad, so sad.   I see this happen on the boards frequently.  So instead of accepting the answer, a new thread is started, the question varied, because that person wants an answer that agrees with what they WANT to hear.

Recently we had a girl come to our house to help serve for a weekend of entertaining.  She asked a very pertinent question.  "What will be expected of me".   The answer, to serve food and drinks.  Nothing more.  Nothing sexual, no BDSM activities, just serve food and drinks.   So then she said, what does that mean?  Umm...serve food and drinks.  Nothing complicated there.   I didn't stutter, I answered her question.  I don't think she liked the answer, but it WAS the answer.  Accept an answer for what it is...the answer.   Don't like my answer.  Not my problem.

But then I tend to be very direct with people, I don't sugar coat and coddle.   And some can't handle it.  Oh well.  Not my problem.

I wish  you well,

Elizabeth

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/2/2009 3:38:24 AM   
masmiss


Posts: 494
Joined: 2/16/2009
From: New Jersey
Status: offline 		Respectfully asking a Dominant a question is not improper.  It's essential in a good D/s relationship.

_____________________________

I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

-William Ernest Henley

(in reply to Interesdom)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/2/2009 3:56:30 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

Is it? You're a wife. Now, let's put you in a vanilla situation. Hubby is waiting for you to get dressed so you two can go out to dinner. You finally meet him in the living room. He doesn't like the dress and so he asks you a couple of questions. Tell me which set of questions you'd rather hear if you have to hear a question about your clothing choice...

Him: Great Jumpin' Jesus'...why in God's name would you wear that godawful dress? Don't you know how that shitty color makes your skin wash out and you end up looking like Ms. Marshmallow?

Him: Honey, why did you choose that dress? Don't you remember the last time you wore it and several people you respect mentioned that the color does absolutely nothing for all your positive aspects?

Now, add in D/s to the dynamic...an area in which communication is indeed vital, as many---including myself---have noted but one in which the way communication takes place has also been laid down as being important.


Chuckles, my Master simply would have said, i don't like you in that dress -- go change (either into so and so or simply go change) and get rid of that dress.

Now i could have asked why, and a couple things could have happened -- 1) he feels obliging and answers, 2) he just look at me until i realized obeying would be a very vital thing to do lol, or 3) he ignores me and i go do what he told me too, or 4) if i have aggravated him for wasting more time in getting ready, he could feel obliged to beat my ass and THEN watch as i obey him.

Mostly, i probably would not have questioned him at that time but obeyed because it really wasn't my choice what i wear but his. Later, i MAY feel inclined to ask if i liked the dress. but again all of the above apply as to his response.

Most likely he wouldn't have explained himself in giving a directive, my duty was to obey and if he told me to do something that's what i would have done -- grins usually, i wasn't perfect.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/2/2009 3:58:26 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to masmiss)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/2/2009 10:30:28 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		CreativeDominant in answer to your question Sir...i read both sets several times over...i am inclined to prefer it if he would come out with the first set i think as it sounds more like He is just stating what He thinks while the other set might be a bit more like skirting around the issue...but to be honest Sir i do not really mind how He asks questions about my dress...i am now left wondering if he wants me to take it off or if i am to go with Him feeling stupid...
Knowing Him...He would not comment on my choise of dress unless i asked Him how i look, and then He would say: you know I don't like that dress, so why do you ask?
And then i would answer: yes sorry Sir, what a stupid question.

NorthernGent, my Husband like you does not have time for all sorts of questions either...if i ask questions they need to be clear and to the point...this is exactly why i like wandering around here...

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/4/2009 2:36:48 PM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
...
Sorry girls, but to me, you are missing something big time if you are that nervous of talking to the Man who owns you.  To me that should be the ONE person out of everyone you DO turn too.  Perhaps if you don't, you really need to reevaluate what this whole concept is -- actions really isn't all its about -- its about the connection, the learning, the depending upon, and the trust that he will train you when you mess up and perfection isn't YOURS to achieve but his to define.
...
There is no way he would have that.  Trust your Men ladies, if you don't and can't go to him above all others, to me, you really need to look into what you are calling a relationship of this dynamic


VERY well said.  As much as I might dislike errors, questions, nagging (!) and <gasp> being yelled at, (never yet had anything physical thrown at me), at least it is with ME.  At least I am seeing what I have on my hands to deal with and own.  Learning from outside, getting ideas from outside - that's fine as long as it's talked over with me.  Trying to unravel whom I am and what I want and how the relationship is going to work - that should be done with me.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/4/2009 2:48:17 PM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
"Sir...don't you think your punishments might be more effective and i would become a better submissive/slave if you explained a little more about why you are giving me one? "  That is passive-aggressive...the submissive already knows in her own mind that SHE thinks that the approach she has mentioned in her question would be more effective.  Alright then, have the guts...and the belief in your dynamic...to communicate that directly to your dominant:  "Sir, I've looked inside myself and I think your punishment of me would be more effective if I understood better why you are punishing me".    Now you've communicated honestly.

Sir, to me the question remains the same: why are you doing this?
The first way of asking sounds like a suggestion or a plea...like please explain. And the second way of asking sounds maybe slightly like a critisism; your punishment of me is not good enough because i do not understand why you do it!

English is not my first language but even in my own language i do not always know how to formulate my thoughts or questions and like tinkerbell even not after i have thought about it sometimes for very long periods of time...is not the question in it self more important than the way it is asked?


How you ask a question is important and something that you can learn over time but I think that it is more important to ask a genuine question perhaps badly than not ask it at all.

But the point here is more about making sure that a question really is something that you need to know.  Do you actually know the answer already?  If so, make a statement, not a question.  Do you really want to know the answer, or do you just want to get your master to think in a certain way?  If you don't want an answer, don't ask, although you could request to hold a conversation on a specific topic.  Do you know why you need to know or is this mere curiosity? If you could answer him well if he says 'why do you need to know' then concentrate on your trust for him and keep quiet.

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/4/2009 2:55:26 PM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your responses.  I'm sorry I missed coming back before but I am not getting e-mail notifications for some reason.


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel
...
To me its not a woman really learning to serve him better, its a girl trying to determine the speed and way she does her slavery and many times she simply ends up causing issues because she is trying to control her slavery. If you watch when women have problems in slavery -- THIS is what is happening, she thinks she knows what will make her the better slave, instead of simply allowing the Man to train her into being the slave he wishes her to be.
...


Thank you for your lengthy response angel, I have learnt something there: something that I hadn't seen from my angle as a past owner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
Of course it's improper to ask - all subs are supposed to use their psychic powers - you know the ones that came with the psychedelic cape and underpants that help them fly too.

In exactly the same way I roll on My dice charts to decide My next action... 7... pat sub on head.. maybe I should put the cleaver down first - ah what the heck it doesnt say that on the chart....

Alternatively... is it too much to ask to think? Sorry, forget I even suggested that.

Ask. Ask again if the answer isnt clear. As someone said above - the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.


LOL.  Write at the top of the chart "first put cleaver down."

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I don't have the time, will or patience to listen to every whim, fancy or concern. I like peace and quiet from time to time, and it really isn't about alleviating someone's anxieties for me. You have to be responsible with communication, too.


Yes, I am the same,  Sometimes I just want to relax and let my mind coast.  It is important for a sub or slave to pick the right times to talk, or to ask.


(in reply to Interesdom)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/5/2009 11:13:17 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Well, it is still not clear to me what CreativeDominant tried to illustrate with His question about the dress, but thank you for your words Interesdom.

I still do not think that asking questions only ever from your own Dom is always the only and correct way to go...not for everybody at least...Like it is not always productive for a Dom to only ever ask questions of His submissive or slave. Sometimes Doms like submissives do not answer questions satisfactory...they might feel critisized even though the question is totally genuine...sometimes the Dom might not be in a 'good' place to handle questions...a lot of people in vanilla as well as BDSM need counsillors to keep their relationship together...they need 'outside' help is that wrong too?

The lady in your original op might have wanted advice on a structure in which she hoped to keep a distance between her and her Dom/playmate and the questions she had in mind might have been on a very intimate level...whereas she might be ok asking another Dom (especially someone anonimous) about this matter it might have felt totally wrong to ask this of her playmate. I do not know the ins and outs i only know that sometimes outside opinions are of great value (as long as the asker of the question keeps in mind it is only someone elses opinion and not an absolute truth)

(in reply to Interesdom)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/5/2009 12:22:38 PM   
blackcat39


Posts: 62
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

she will ask you these questions...but she is going to read her Doms mind?

Communication is vital to a successful relationship


quote:

she will ask you these questions...but she is going to read her Doms mind?

Communication is vital to a successful relationship


Communication is over-rated. BDSM relationships should be all about getting your jollies off, not about communication. THe only thing important is that you get your needs met. The only communication that really needs to happen is commands/demands and "yes sir".

Well, you can believe in vanilla communication if you want, but I stick with my belief that communication is not the key to relationships. To be good in relationships, you actually need to be psychic! The primary goal in relationships is a win-win situation. If that isn't the case, the relationship flounders. communication doesn't change that.....

Actually, in some cases, Communication hurts a relationship. You're cheating on a girl but she doesn't know, she's happy in her "bubble". being honest with her will just hurt the relationship. (its not the cheating that is hurting the relationship, its communicating to her the truth).

I say this tongue-in-cheek. I can see now a ton of people ranting me about how I'm wrong. ;0

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/5/2009 4:18:27 PM   
Interesdom


Posts: 197
Joined: 5/24/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcat39
Communication is over-rated. BDSM relationships should be all about getting your jollies off, not about communication. THe only thing important is that you get your needs met. The only communication that really needs to happen is commands/demands and "yes sir".

Well, you can believe in vanilla communication if you want, but I stick with my belief that communication is not the key to relationships. To be good in relationships, you actually need to be psychic! The primary goal in relationships is a win-win situation. If that isn't the case, the relationship flounders. communication doesn't change that.....

Actually, in some cases, Communication hurts a relationship. You're cheating on a girl but she doesn't know, she's happy in her "bubble". being honest with her will just hurt the relationship. (its not the cheating that is hurting the relationship, its communicating to her the truth).

I say this tongue-in-cheek. I can see now a ton of people ranting me about how I'm wrong. ;0


OK, yes I'm going to rant

I think your example of cheating is a poor one because in almost every case, cheating is going to adversely affect a relationship, whether it is ever revealed or not.  There are just too many things that get screwed up along the way, attention and self-respect included.

That said, I do agree that the modern mantra of communication in therapist relationship models of 'what it takes to have a good relationship' are too encompassing and can even be harmful.  After all, there is no one way to model a relationship, as we here well know.


_____________________________


I always proofread carefully to make sure I don't any words out.

(in reply to blackcat39)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/5/2009 7:14:00 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		Have to agree with Angel on the nature of questions. 

Had one sub who'd only served males before becoming mine. And she's the only one who ever asked questions that weren't seeking information or clarification.  They were designed to find the motive behind a request or a statement. Asking what didn't need to be known.

Did it non-stop.  Twice in five minutes.  Habitual behavior developed over years of manipulating men, don't know why one of them didn't put a halt to it. Maybe she was so beautiful, they let her get away with it.

Saw this type of questioning close-up, I think it's much more common with female subs who serve males, since I still hear it often around male dom-female slave couples.  Sometimes more subtle than my girl, but it's still there.

The tip off is the word "why?"
Not many information-clarification questions have to be phrased as "why".. there's other ways to ask. But the "probing a mentality" question nearly always starts with "why".

MsM

(in reply to ranja)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 11:36:29 AM   
KoolnSassy


Posts: 65
Joined: 5/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Interesdom

I was having a discussion recently with a sub who was discussing her need to understand the mentality of dominants (and sadists).  She had many good questions that I was happy to help her in a generic way and about myself as a specific example.

However, she then said (paraphrased and my emphasis):
quote:


I think that understanding all this can be helpful to learn how to better please a Master/Dom.  After all, how can one please without understanding?
...
I feel it would be improper to ask these questions of someone who was my Master/Dom.


I am interested in other people's reaction to this and will post my own response.



Again, I sincerely believe it depends on the rules of the relationship. In Gorean I've been told that a kajira asking questions is viewed as disrespectful. "Curiousity is not becoming to a kajira". But even there, I would hope that a Master's intentions, wishes had been made clear. A sub/slave should not have to guess what the Owner wants, unless that's a form of sadism (heh heh).

In this instance, it sounds like the s is attempting to comprehend the mind of a Dominant more deeply. I think that's admirable. It was in submitting that I understood the mind and heart of a submissive more deeply. But still there are no guarantees. We all have only our own experience and perception to go on.

_____________________________

If you don't know what you're doing, why do you think I know?

KoolnSassy

(in reply to Interesdom)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 2:01:33 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Actually KoolnSassy, that is not the actual interpretation of that quote.  That quote is very specific with regard to curiosity as to his determinations for his home and household and therefore, her.  Its none of a slave's business what her Master determines for her as his slave -- her duty is to obey.   General curiosity of a slave is actually encouraged, intelligence is also.  Be careful taking quotes from websites and listening to people arbitrarily put meaning to them.  If you read the books, you will see slaves always asking general questions of curiosity ESPECIALLy about their slave selves, but this quote comes in when it has to do with her attempts to find answers with regard to what her Master's determinations will be..  

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to KoolnSassy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 4:30:47 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		I like being asked questions especially the ones that start with why.
It shows that a man is actually interested in me.

(in reply to KoolnSassy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 4:35:46 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I think it was inappropriate for her to contact you privately, to discuss this stuff. Talking on the forums, or to her Dom, would have been fine, but I think it's disrespectful of her to go and contact Dominants who she isn't involved with, especially if it's about anything particularly personal/private, without his specific ok on it.

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 4:37:26 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		The pet learned very quickly that it's improper to NOT ask questions.  Don't assume, don't take things for granted, don't blindly follow.  He also learned though that "Because I said so." is to be taken as a perfectly reasonable and legitimate answer when coming from me. ;)

Seriously though, if he doesn't know or isn't sure, I WANT him to ask, I demand it.  It's just more efficient that way.  Spend 2 hours bumbling through something that should have taken 30 minutes, just to get it wrong, or spend 5 minutes asking me and having it explained and helping.

If it's a more personal type question such as "Why did you do _______?", or "How do you feel about ________?"  That's fine.  I have nothing to hide from my pet, or anyone else in my life.  I've always figured that if someone is ready to ask me a question, then they're ready for the brutally honest answer that I am known for giving.

And really, even if not aloud or directed at anyone in particular, one asks questions all the time.  If they didn't, google wouldn't be in business.  How else are we supposed to learn and grow if we don't ask things?


_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to lateralist1)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is it improper to ask questions - or is it vital? - 5/6/2009 5:34:42 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		there is no point in not communicating, unless you're looking for misunderstandings and miscommunication to ruin your relationship.  doesn't sound like a good idea to me. 
PM

_____________________________

That which does not kill me, better run pretty damn fast

I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!




(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 60
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