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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 3:51:59 PM   
marysdream


Posts: 126
Joined: 5/31/2008
Status: offline 		wow there are just some things that folks engage in i like being uninformed about! lol this maintains some sense of sanity for me! ...i do agree with the posts here...i admire slaves just know i could never live up to their standards!
ree!

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 7:13:35 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

In many states, engaging in sexual intercourse in any position other than missionary is illegal. As are oral sex, anal sex, multiple partners, etc.  There is very little in this lifestyle that would be defensible in a court of law.  However, there are cases where "slaves" have literally given power of attorney to their "master" over their finances as well as everything else, making the "master" their legal guardian (yes adults can be given legal guardians).  The point I was making was that too many "slaves" are led to believe that once they submit, they are completely at the mercy of their "master's" whims.  Most of us know this is complete BS. 

And assisted suicide IS legal in some states. Orgego is one of them. http://www.legalaffairs.org/webexclusive/debateclub_as0805.msp


Ya but I'm not from the states. It's illegal here

As for many positions being illegal, true but highly doubtful that oral sex will end in someones death, unless she can suck well enough his heart explodes lol

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 7:23:45 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

First off let me say I haven't seen nor heard of this site before and I'm not attempting to defend it.  But the following caught my eye and raised a few questions for me.  Apparently GotSteel (and possibly others) object to the following snippet I assume was taken from this site.  However, as I read over it, I wonder why?


There were a number of things I was horrified or offended by on that site. I picked that particular passage because I found it amusing that he actually talked about the book. Even as a figure of speech, it seemed to me a strange way of going about that statement. The misused and abused sentence really set me off, I took it to mean that the author was saying that it was completely cool to abuse a person.

Though I am completely behind the idea of a master not needed to be a pretentious asshat   I didn't pick that quote because it was the worst of it and I'm not saying that every word of it is horrible. The book reference just gave me a laugh and let me make a crack about the one twue way.

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 9:02:27 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

In many states, engaging in sexual intercourse in any position other than missionary is illegal.


That's not actually true: "In June 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that state laws criminalizing private, non-commercial sexual activity between consenting adults at home on the grounds of morality are unconstitutional since there is insufficient justification for intruding into people's liberty and privacy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law#United_States 

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 10:30:19 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

There were a number of things I was horrified or offended by on that site.

You were horrified? That seems a little strong don't you think

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 11:17:16 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

There were a number of things I was horrified or offended by on that site.

You were horrified? That seems a little strong don't you think


No, the second definition in websters "to fill with distaste" about sums up my feeling for that site.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 11:24:28 PM   
MissAO


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting the link to the website. I shall have to check out the site.

As for the question of "what book?"  - How about the dictionary?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slave
 
Defining slavery as some sort of sexual play seems to be a BDSM phenomenon.
Possibly, on RLslavery.com, I won’t get so many requests from sexual deviants who get all offended at the idea of actual “by the book” slavery.

Be well,
~A

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/1/2009 11:42:13 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Maybe, maybe not, Arpig
I found some things on that site quite disturbing, especially given the number of newbie posts here that demonstrate just how suggestible, naive, and determined to be the "slaviest of the slaves" submissives new to the scene can be.
Examples:
quote:

A slave does decide when in their life they will become a slave. A slave will get to decide who they will make that initial transition from 'never have been owned' to 'being owned as a slave' with. After that initial transition, however, a 'real' slave has no say who owns them next or how they live or where they live or how they are treated or anything else for that matter; they are now a slave.
quote:

A 'real' slave desperately desires to be owned by a 'real' Owner. regardless of who that Owner is or the conditions of their life.
quote:

if you were a 'real' slave then there would be nothing for you, personally, to 'get through'. At that point, if you were a 'real' slave, your status would remain exactly the same: you would now be a slave to an Owner who is fat, ugly, poor and an abusive alcoholic. As a 'real' slave, you would accept your fate and, of course, remain an owned slave. If your Owner decided to pimp you out or even ignore you completely you would accept whatever new or changing circumstances in your life that occurred. That is what 'real' slaves do.
Ugh. Waaaayyy too much "one twue way" for me to stomach, although I have gained a bit of understanding for those "slaves" who come here asking for help when they have gotten themselves into a "relationship" so screwed up that they don't even realize that they have the right to leave a "Master" who is abusive, whether they are "released" or not. JMHO



< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 5/1/2009 11:44:52 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 12:24:26 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

As for the question of "what book?"  - How about the dictionary?

Ugh, do we REALLY need to go there again? Honestly.
Fine, from your link:
quote:

2. a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug. 3. a drudge: a housekeeping slave. 4. a slave ant. 5. Photography. a subsidiary flash lamp actuated through its photoelectric cell when the principal flash lamp is discharged. 6. Machinery. a mechanism under control of and repeating the actions of a similar mechanism. Compare master (def. 19). –verb (used without object) 7. to work like a slave; drudge. 8. to engage in the slave trade; procure, transport, or sell slaves. –verb (used with object) 9. to connect (a machine) to a master as its slave. 10. Archaic. to enslave. Slave. a member of a group of Athabaskan-speaking North American Indians living in the upper Mackenzie River valley region of the Northwest Territories and in parts of British Columbia, Alberta, and the Yukon Territory.

quote:

Defining slavery as some sort of sexual play seems to be a BDSM phenomenon.

Did you somehow miss the crapload of other definitions for the word "slave" in your own link? Did that not clue you in to the fact that certain words have multiple definitions, all of which are valid in the context used? FFS, wake up. The "dictionary definition" of slavery is non-consentual, and is therefore illegal in most countries, full stop. The definition of "slavery" in our little world is rather different, as it implies voluntarily giving one's life over to another.. but not always. The fact is that the only "rules" when it comes to WIIWD are those agreed to by those involved in a given relationship. Sorry to dissappoint, but there really is no universal rule book.
quote:

Possibly, on RLslavery.com, I won’t get so many requests from sexual deviants who get all offended at the idea of actual “by the book” slavery.

SO not touching that, as I think I'm off 16's radar this week.
I will simply reiterate my above statement. There is no book.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
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Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 8:13:21 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I've recently seen the site and their definition of what a real Master owes a real slave.  It is definitely not for me, and I consider myself to be a "real" slave.  I could not serve if I believed that I never deserved any appreciation.  It made me proud to be what they would consider a BDSM slave and not a "real" one.  While some may enjoy giving themselves to that extent I know that I don't have that drive in me.  For me slavery is about much more than just serving but needs to include true guidance and some type of warmth within the relationship.  According to their list of things that a Master does NOT owe a slave I could never thrive.

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 8:24:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha
As for many positions being illegal, true but highly doubtful that oral sex will end in someones death, unless she can suck well enough his heart explodes lol


If someone knows of such a girl, I will take the chance.  I am pretty sure I will be able to tough 'er out.

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 7:52:03 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAO

Thank you for posting the link to the website. I shall have to check out the site.

As for the question of "what book?"  - How about the dictionary?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slave
 
Defining slavery as some sort of sexual play seems to be a BDSM phenomenon.
Possibly, on RLslavery.com, I won’t get so many requests from sexual deviants who get all offended at the idea of actual “by the book” slavery.

Be well,
~A


1. Even if we are talking about real historical slavery "by the book" is still nonsensical. Because it's still a matter of which book. The laws regarding slavery were different during different periods of time, from country to county and even state to state.

2. It's reasonable for people to get offended by the criminal act of holding a person against their will. It's a serious crime in our country.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 9:10:40 PM   
MissAO


Posts: 18
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Dear GotSteel,

1. You have a valid point there. But in no point in history, to my knowledge, has slavery every been merely a recreational sex game and nothing more. That is my pet peeve about the majority of slaves on this site and many others.

2. The owner of RLslavery.com writes several times that the site is about consensual slavery. He spends a lot of time discussing consensual slavery versus non consensual slavery - which he strongly states is illegal AND that he will aid in prosecution of anyone doing anything against someone's consent. Thus the logging of ISP addresses and that anyone signing up at the site must register with a traceable e-mail address - no yahoo or any other anonymous e-mail servers.

The slaves described on the site willingly and knowingly enter into a "slave contract." He illustrates the difference between consensual slavery and conditional slavery (which he does not believe is truly slavery) - where a person says "I will be a slave only if certain requirements are met" - conditions such as monogamy, sexual practices, affection, love, having a job, etc. A slave of the type described in this website, consensually agrees to be a slave regardless of what such slavery may entail, and may not dictate anything else that will occur or not occur after the agreement of a master/slave relationship has been made. The site also goes into the responsibilities of an owner, because owning a slave requires one to take total responsibility for a person's entire life. The bottom line is; a slave has the right to freely choose to say, or to not say "I will be a slave" but once that is said, the slave has no rights whatsoever.

As I read in one slave contract - "You have the right to decide whether or not you will be my slave. But if you do decide to be my slave, that is the last decision you will ever make."

Be well,
~A

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 9:35:46 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Judging from your background I can't help agree with much of what you say FW. Not having any inclination to visit the site mentioned, I do have much better things to do with my computer time. However based on my reading the OP and some of the posts I am of the firm opinion that the OP needs to be grounded and take a long hard look at a reality check before getting into anything. Just a thought no more, no less. 

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RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 9:41:16 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAO


As I read in one slave contract - "You have the right to decide whether or not you will be my slave. But if you do decide to be my slave, that is the last decision you will ever make."




So, what happens if the slave decides it no longer wants to be a slave?  Does it make another decision to leave?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 9:47:50 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Were the slave Gorean or in a house similar to the Gorean Lifestyles such as the Victorian Lifestyle etc., said slave if following protocols, should beg for release stating his or her reasons. However because there are some bastards in all Lifestyles kink and mundane as we all know, a slave can vote with their feet and walk out. Personally, I'd prefer a slave to come to me and beg so we can sit down and discuss the reasons and so I could attempt to ensure that he or she both took all their possessions and had sufficient funds accessable to them to live on for a time untill they were back onb their feet. 

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 9:58:36 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: akisha
As for many positions being illegal, true but highly doubtful that oral sex will end in someones death, unless she can suck well enough his heart explodes lol


If someone knows of such a girl, I will take the chance.  I am pretty sure I will be able to tough 'er out.


Aren't you a little old to be taking that kind of risk?

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/2/2009 11:41:19 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings all.....

I have been very amused by reading this thread so far. Yes, I am a member and sometimes poster on rlslavery.com. Yes, I know Guardian would find most your comments hilarious. He also wouldn't care what you think at all based on what I have read of his writings. What he defines as slavery on that site and what most of BDSM calls slavery is about the difference between high school baseball and the New York Yankees at their worst. In other words, not Masters and slaves but Doms and subs and more often Tops and bottoms with fancy titles. What is done is similar enough between the two levels that you could, to use the baseball analogy, call it the same 'game' but it is done at totally different levels. If you get the feeling that I prefer the higher level, you would be correct. Most other things below that are just playing at it.

So....some of you will be insulted by my words....and definitely by what is on that site. My past experience says that the people most offended are those who either can't meet the definitions of such a group or want to create their own definitions that few others agree with. That is followed by the people going, "but he doesn't play according to the rules." Correct, he doesn't. At that level, it is not play at all. It is as close as can be done given the laws of the countries in which we live....and Guardian and the people on that site are very concerned about staying on the legal side of the law. There also tends to be less misinformation than has been running through this thread. Some of it has been corrected. I hope the rest of it gets corrected as well.

I do suggest that those of you who are not afraid and in hiding go ahead and sign up and read what is there. Read the essays for yourself and even the forums. It is a very slow moving site unlike CM. Who knows, you might learn something.

Be well all....

Malkinius

PS: Hey IB....it has been too long.



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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/3/2009 12:37:36 AM   
subliscious


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings all.....

I have been very amused by reading this thread so far. Yes, I am a member and sometimes poster on rlslavery.com. Yes, I know Guardian would find most your comments hilarious.


I too have been very amused reading this thread. If rlslavery.com is such a good site why is there a need to come to a very popular bdsm site to promote it?

Yes I have been to the site and read quite a bit. Seems like a whole lot of fantasy wrapped up in cloud cuckoo land. So if you have only come here to insult the very many REAL slaves and Masters here you are showing the desperation of that site to be recognised.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How about Real slavery? - 5/3/2009 1:36:12 AM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings subliscious....

quote:

ORIGINAL: subliscious
I too have been very amused reading this thread. If rlslavery.com is such a good site why is there a need to come to a very popular bdsm site to promote it?

Yes I have been to the site and read quite a bit. Seems like a whole lot of fantasy wrapped up in cloud cuckoo land. So if you have only come here to insult the very many REAL slaves and Masters here you are showing the desperation of that site to be recognised.


I didn't come here to promote it. I often do recommend it for people interested in consensual slavery. At least the essay parts. They scare away most who are not looking for slavery but for a kinky lover with fancy titles. It is useful for the same reason the Internal Enslavement website is useful. For the information that is there that I don't have to repeat. It is there to be learned from.

To you it is fantasy. To me, it is what I do. It really is that simple. Guardian was one of the first people, not of my background, to say things that were not the usual politically correct play crap I get from most people in the "BDSM Lifestyle". Sorry....but that is how I view it. I don't play. I live. His is a site for people who want to live something full time to the greatest extent they can. To emphasize the difference, he goes to the extreme. Yes, people do go there and often do so willingly. I think you may protest so much because you fear what is there and fear that you couldn't do it. So therefore it is automatically an impossible fantasy. I am very familiar with that response. The flip side of that is that the fear is there because it might be what you secretly desire but are afraid to let be known. Obviously, I don't know you and what really motivates you. But I do know your response and what motivates it most of the time. I have seen it many times before in this and other contexts.

Do have fun with your play.....and your imagination of what about what some things and some people are not.

Malkinius



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http://www.HouseMalkinius.com    The goal is community.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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