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RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/6/2009 11:18:12 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Twice have I had slaves lie to both myself and Lady Neets. One was my last girl when I first claimed her (at her request/begging) who lied about something personal, which I could have forgiven had she 'fessed up, but continues with the lie for three years. It wans't hard as most of our relationship was on line (LDR) and after returning to her own home confessed to me the lie which resulted in my dismissing her both for the lie, her disruptive behaviour and for trying to split Lady Neets and I up (Automatic deal breaker). The other which happened just after I dismissed the girl, was lady Neets's male slave who was cought out in both a lie and making disparaging comments about both Lady Neets and mysel;f to my then ex slave, and stealing from both us and my Father in Law. He was instantly dismissed and given two dfays to move out. (His reaction reminded me of a 14 year old school girl having her first period LOL). He now passes himself off as a Master locally.

Lies alone whould not have caused rifts but they would have created a loss of believeability were they to have happened in a mundane situation. If something happens to create a loss of beleaveability then it is necessary to visit this to ascertain the dammage and if a relationship is salvageable or not.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/6/2009 11:38:05 AM   
subangi


Posts: 544
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: subangi

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

babeeeeee do these tight shorts make my cock look to big???????  I suppose the only non lie reply would be...."let me get baack to you on that"

BadOne

please email such a pic, and I will reply.  hehe


The check is in the male

yes, and my reply will be "hand" delivered or word of mouth..or maybe...just mouth

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/6/2009 5:36:11 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		lies are grounds for ending the relationship.

PM

_____________________________

That which does not kill me, better run pretty damn fast

I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!




(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/6/2009 8:58:22 PM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		As you i think lying is a concept, a kind of system some people base their life upon and their social interactions.

My words were to short to be understood.

What i meant, was: I would look into the reasons somebody lied to me, and lying out of fear (because for example the person had parents who punished them physically for things lilke a not cleaned dish in the sink, so that created a wrong connection between telling the truth (yes, that is my dish) and the consequences) or laziness, is something completely different to a manipulating mind, who lies systematically. Both can overlap, i know that.

And that is the reason, why i would look into the story behind.

All in all, i am not tolerant with liars, but after some very harsh reactions on my side, because i tend to end contact with lying people, i developed a kind of proofing/testing system.

_____________________________

aka Morgaine289

http://goldenerkern.blogspot.com/

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/7/2009 8:15:30 AM   
MistressCara


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		I would cut his balls off after sedating and medicating him - then when he awoke Id say it wasn't Me
I hate liars
If My slave lies to Me its the worst kind of disobedience and disloyalty.
They deserve to be made an example of and kicked out into the abandonment of vanilla life.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/7/2009 10:57:53 AM   
TopChuck


Posts: 36
Joined: 1/1/2008
Status: offline 		Lying is a violation of trusting.  Trusting is one of the elements of the power exchange.  It is incumbent on the Dom/me to get to the source and correct it.  Violation of trusting can't be tolerated, as many of the posts have indicated.

There are reasons that mitigate the violation, but it can't be tolerated or the power exchange is affected, sometimes permanently if the behavior continues.

Keep in mind that there are instances where the Dom/me hasn't been trust-worthy.  That's where understanding the submissive is paramount.

When the Dom/me lies, it is also a violation of the power exchange.  It violates the respect the Dom/me owes the submissive.  It creates a state of mistrust in the submissive's mind, which shuts the Dom/me out.  The Dom/me has to have free access to the sub's mind, because the Dom/me has a duty to actively understand the submissive.

Because the submissive is in a much more vulnerable position than the Dom/me, the sub must be protected, cared for, cherished, treasured.

The proficient Dom/me extends equality to the submissive and that requires the Dom/me's veracity.

The submissive extends trust, appreciation, acceptance, in exchange for cherishing, understanding, and respect.

Lying has no place in that exchange.

(PS: There is no such thing as Vanilla.)


(in reply to MistressCara)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 8:55:45 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HottyBotty
I was wondering how others have dealt with similiar problems and if you think lies in BDSM relationsips are more serious than in vanilla ones


That of course all depends upon the individuals involved, and to what degree they honor their commitments / responsibilities. In that light, traditional and D/s undertakings, though quite different structurally, have no real difference when it comes to matters of integrity. Consensual slavery or matrimonial bond, lying erodes both in equal measure.

The Greek philosopher Heraclitus is purported to have once written that eyes are more accurate witnesses than ears. When it comes to matters of lying, look for patterns, not benign events. It is the occasional event we can get through and correct; it is the pattern we should not accept.

(in reply to HottyBotty)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 10:13:01 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Many lies are serious in the world we live in. We all do really in the same world. We all lie. It is the level and what we lie about that draws lines around the place. Lying about being in a relationship or not is quite a different lie than protecting someone's feelings. The sort of people who often admit that they are honest to a fault. That kind of honesty is not admirable in my opinion, why needlessly hurt someone?

There is lying out of fear which feels less corrosive than lying to manipulate. I think it is a matter of each person knowing the difference for themselves. Someone lying out of fear needs assurance, acceptance and to feel safe to tell the truth. The other sort needs to see the door in my opinion.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 8:31:18 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		To the posters who try to distinguish between the small lie and the big lie.. the reasons behind the lies etc.  How do you arrive at big lies.. by starting out with small ones.  Each time you lie, even on something like snoring, to avoid hurt feelings, you're making it easier to tell bigger ones. You are making a decision every time you open your mouth on how much truth you will tell.

If you decide not to tell lies, you will find how easy it is to be honest in a very kind way to those close to you, when they ask questions where most people will tell a white lie to avoid discomfort.  There's many occasions where you don't have to say a word in fact.  Deciding not to lie is way easier over time tham making a decision on every situation.

In time you will get phone calls from people you don't even know too well, becuase they are desperate to ask an important question of someone they know will not lie to them.  You only have to answer a touchy question once with care or admit to some failing for the other person to get a look in their eye, that tells you they just noticed that you're honest and trustworthy. They tend not to forget this.  It builds over time.

Strangers in stores will ask you to help them because they feel your trustworthiness.  I once saved a woman in Saks from going to her high school reunion looking as tho she was ready to lead a marching band. It only took one look at her and she nodded at me and said thank you so much...you saved me from disaster.

People here seem so keen on the analysis and parsing. to make fine lines, divisons, categories. Lies are lies. period. Big ones, little ones. The consequences of the individual lie will vary greatly, but the basic concept holds. Don't lie.

Being a truthteller is not easy at first but the benefits reaped from that decision will put ripples out as wide as the world.  Helping your subs to learn this lesson is one of the greatest gifts you can give them.

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 8:57:42 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I am one of those people that others come to looking for the truth.  However, if my best friend comes home crying with a horrific haircut, I'm going to make her feel better and tell her it isn't so bad and that maybe we can do something with it.  The "consequence" of my action is that I made my friend feel better.  Anyone who says they never tell lies and that they are all the same, taking the holier than thou approach is at that same moment being dishonest.  We lie to our children and tell them there is a Santa Clause, an Easter Bunny, a Tooth Fairy.  The OP never said what the lie was and it does make a big difference.  The difference being that we have no idea whether the "lie" was something that constitutes a gross violation of trust or the OP being petty over something small.  "Did you put the load of laundry in at exactly 3:00" and saying yes when it was actually 3:05?  Making a big deal out of it is senseless because it doesn't serve a purpose.  Equating the lie of Santa Clause exists with someone being dishonest about cheatin on their partner is just not the same thing, yet both are lies.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 9:16:20 PM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Depends I guess... a little fib like "No, we're not planning anything for your birthday.", or whatever, I tend to let slide, it's all in good fun.  I'm guessing though, that it was nothing like this.  In which case, my pet knows the rules.  There are three rules, they are not broken and I will toss him out on his ass right then and there if they are broken.  1: First and foremost, you do NOT lie to me, ever.  I will find out and you will obviously be in a LOT more trouble for lying than for whatever you did originally.  2: Drugs (recreational/illegal) are NOT to be in my house, period.  3: M's word is as much law as mine.  If there are any questions or conflicts on 3, ask M and myself and we'll work it out.  Those three rules to him, and anyone who enters my household are to be taken as though god himself handed them down.

Even the second two rules, I MIGHT, if caught on a very good and generous day, give a second chance.  Rule 1 though.  I may, just mayyyyyy give a chance to explain, but that had better be one fucking great explanation of epic and biblical proportions to make me even consider not booting him right out.

Those are how things are here.  I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but those were set down long long before he was brought into the household.  Your household may be different, and that's totally your call, obviously.  But you did ask my thoughts, and there they be. :)  

_____________________________

We'll begin with a spin, traveling in a world of my creation. What we'll see will defy explanation.

I am the voices in your head.

BiggKatt Studios

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/8/2009 9:23:15 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Depends I guess... a little fib like "No, we're not planning anything for your birthday.", or whatever, I tend to let slide, it's all in good fun. 


Exactly my point.  There are times and things where it is truly harmless.  I agree that the OP is not likely talking about such a little thing, however, I have seen enough examples on posts here to not be sure because sometimes people do make mountains out of molehills.

For the record, honesty is the number one thing I require in a relationship.  But if my partner lied about what they got me for Christmas or while planning a surprise party, I'm not getting bent out of shape. 

(in reply to BKSir)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 1:54:43 AM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't mean to sound holier than thou.. as everyone has their own rows to hoe in the holiness field and I'm not a great farmer. This is one of those hot buttons we all have.  My family went to the grave holding onto one of those Big lies that did so much harm. I really think it starts with telling little lies, they were so keen on doing that. I swore when I grew up that I would try not to live like that. So I apologize if I sounded too strong on the topic.  But it's something I really do feel very strongly about, the need to tell the truth. (and yeah I think Santa Claus does exist...has an iconic presence in the world.. so that never bothers to me to agree that Easter bunny and fairies are fun for kids.)

But, we know even without much info.. that the poster was distressed by feeling a sub is telling lies. It makes it harder to address when the talk goes goes into comparing small lies and big ones.  If someone feels another is being dishonest, that's likely exactly what's happening and it's not good in any relationship but in d/s where trust is so important as BKSir and TopChuck and others have said, it likely something serious.  I wonder if the OP found the discussion helpful. Lots probably wonder the same.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 2:16:29 AM   
darklight17


Posts: 103
Joined: 3/30/2009
Status: offline 		I don't like lying period :(

Sure, I'll give a few fibs if it's meant to mislead someone before unveiling something great (assuming the person didn't have a known heart condition), but other than that, why bother?

You'll never have someone enjoy or appreciate you if you fill them with anything other than the truth. It's just a very selfish act which may or may not be happening for a reason, and honestly, who cares about the reason?

Online I usually try to be as vague as possible about certain things because it'd just be better to show someone in person. I've found out on this site and others that people will lie about things that are going to be evident the minute you ever meet them! Granted some people are online, but they are sort of asking for it anyway.

My point is, how many people on myspace really make the maximum income? It's so silly.

Lying will just lead to guilt. If someone lies to you once, and you found out any other way than them telling you, there is nothing there anyway. Fudge it.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 3:02:36 AM   
SIRLOINSTEAK


Posts: 84
Joined: 3/30/2009
Status: offline 		People get overly judgemental about lies.

(in reply to darklight17)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 4:09:17 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HottyBotty

My submissive recently lied to me and the lie has caused alot of confusion about how i curently feel about the relationship now

I was wondering how others have dealt with similiar problems and if you think lies in BDSM relationsips are more serious than in vanilla ones



There are things in life that I can tolerate and understand the alternative perspective; there are other things that I can't abide: one of those is a partner lying to me.

A lie completely undermines your authority: a) she thinks you're there as an object for her whims b) direction demands honesty.

Plus, it's a short life, I for one don't have the time or inclination to engage with someone who doesn't know her arse from her elbow.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to HottyBotty)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 5:30:36 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subangi

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

babeeeeee do these tight shorts make my cock look to big???????  I suppose the only non lie reply would be...."let me get baack to you on that"

BadOne

please email such a pic, and I will reply.  hehe


This is the second thread I've seen (I'm sure there are more) where women are trying to get SB's naked pics. Just call me impressed 

(in reply to subangi)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 10:52:35 AM   
QuixoticErrant


Posts: 260
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HottyBotty

My submissive recently lied to me and the lie has caused alot of confusion about how i curently feel about the relationship now

I was wondering how others have dealt with similiar problems and if you think lies in BDSM relationsips are more serious than in vanilla ones





One should never lie to their partner at all, ever, vanilla or BDSM. Without trust, any relationship is sunk.

However, There are lies and then there are lies.

If this was something very big, then you have a serious issue to resolve and you need to find out why she did it, and if you can forgive it. From there you can have serious, grown up talks about how to move forwards or not.

If it is something small, you need to find out why she did it, allay her concerns, and reinforce to her that honesty will be respected while dishonesty will not be tolerated..

< Message edited by QuixoticErrant -- 5/9/2009 10:54:18 AM >

(in reply to HottyBotty)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 11:33:39 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian
In that light, traditional and D/s undertakings, though quite different structurally, have no real difference when it comes to matters of integrity. Consensual slavery or matrimonial bond, lying erodes both in equal measure.



Abso-freakin-lutely.

That said, I don't appreciate being lied to, even if it's to spare my feelings.  I'd rather know a painful truth than to be fed a dose of "feel good" remedy any day.  I can deal with truth.  I don't do so well with wondering, second-guessing, filling in missing pieces, etc.  I want (and need) to be able to trust in what the person I am serving is telling me.  Once his words become doubtful, no matter how small, that doubt inevitably continues to grow, and becomes cancerous.

On the other hand, I won't lie to the person I am submitting to, either.  To answer Sailing Bum's tongue in cheek question, I really would chuckle and say, "Uh...no."




_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Lying Submissive (your thoughts) - 5/9/2009 11:37:14 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I think what concerns me here is some recent experiences of my own.  In a relationship where one partner may be abusive or having other problems, they will intentionally leave out very important information when asking others for their opinion as a means to get the answer they want.  I know there are many d-types on this site who are not the least bit like that, however, there are a lot who do use a lifestyle relationship as an excuse for being abusive, demeaning, etc.  Someone like that would post a very vague message like this to "prove" to their "submissive" that everyone agrees with him.  By leaving out the information, it becomes suspect.  Certainly, he could be leaving out the information because it is embarassing to him to admit someone may have failed him by cheating or whatever.  But typically abusive people like to present themselves to the "outside" as someone who is very kind and considerate, hence the "now I'm confused" poor me attitude. 

The fact that 3 pages have gone by and at least once on each page, someone has questioned about more details and the poster hasn't returned to give more details OR to comment on the advice given, to me sends off a red flag about the truth and accuracy of what was said.  After all, without having any idea of what occurred, nearly everyone has jumped on the "liars should be strung up" bandwagon. 

(in reply to QuixoticErrant)
Profile   Post #: 60
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