RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance?

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lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:08:58 PM)
As i mentioned earlier, i have two athletic and thin children....but somethibng i love about them is the fact that they think(and i quote each of them) "...Mommy you look like a movie star..." "... you are the prettiest Mommy in the whole school...." It must be more than skin deep....and it's sad that wee people seem to "get it" better than some of the "adults" posting here

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:13:18 PM)
You assume people are on anti depressants for their weight, unles you didn' mean that as a generalization about why people are on meds for depression, and nope, wouldn't faze me one bit to be more healthy and eat less junk. I do what I want to do regardless of who does or doesn't like it. I don't know if that was you or someone else who mentioned, that if society put more pressure to be skinny maybe people would eat right or some cockamamy comment to the likes. quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough If our culture wasn't so PC about the weight issue - people would be more inclined to eat right, exercise and take care of themselves. Instead of taking a pill for depression because you're upset about your weight and gaining further weight from anti-depressants, why not try an exercise regimen and better nutriton? Because few people are willing to put forth the effort - everyone wants the magic pill solution to happiness.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:17:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: you can see it every day, overweight parents with overweight children. It's just wrong....so wrong. The nerve of these people passing on their DNA to their children....they should be tied to a tree, and shot! [sm=blasted.gif] Come on now... it IS more than JUST DNA, couple that with bad habits, and (well you know the rest) i wholeheartedly agree, but seriously genetics DO play a part in all this. Some would have people think it's entirely up to choice, and that sort of thinking is what contributes in part to the size superiority stance that we are seeing throughout this thread. There are many contributing factors. i posted about societal issues that take part in the obesity epidemic. But to brush over that some traits are inherited is to be somewhat irresponsible...and the poster to which i responded, seemed to state the fact that some children look like their parents as if this were a novel idea.

DesFIP -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:17:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Des, I have a question... on another thread, you excused inappropriate behaviors for an individual with a mental illness, saying that a person's illness may be really hard to manage, and xhe shouldn't be held responsible for not being able to control hirself all the time. Then, you turn around here, and castigate individuals who are likely to be dealing with another set of -equally- mentally-based illnesses (food addiction, binge eating disorder, 'rescue' eating, etc.). I guess what I'm asking is, what makes the person dealing with recalcitrant depression or bipolar disorder different, in your mind, from someone dealing with recalcitrant binge-eating disorder, aside from the realization that the binge-eating person's illness shows in hir physical body and makes it apparent that xhe isn't "normal"? Especially when it is a documented fact that both illnesses (and compulsive overeating, food addiction, etc.) are equally as responsive (or unresponsive) as bipolar disorder and depression to medication/behavioral therapy. References: 1:Reas DL, Grilo CM. Review and meta-analysis of pharmacotherapy for binge-eating disorder.* Obesity (Silver Spring). 2008 Sep;16(9):2024-38. 2: Azorin JM, Kaladjian, A. An update on the treatment of bipolar disorder. Expert Opin Pharmacother. 2009 Feb;10(2):161-72. 3. Frazetto, G. Drugs Don't Work For Everyone: Doubts about the efficacy of antidepressants renew debates over the medicalization of common distress. EMBO Rep. 2008 Jul;9(7):605-8. Calla the only post I find of mine on here is this. quote: There seems to be more older folks here than younger, and with age comes weight gain. Metabolism simply slows down a lot at 50 or 60 compared to a 20 year old. A heavier 50 year old man is more likely to be accepting of a heavier 50 year old woman than a thin 20 year old woman accepting of a heavier 20 year old man. I don't see any castigating. Sure you were referring to this? In any case, compulsive/addictive behaviors are a whole different ball of wax from comfort eating. Truthfully it's a lot easier to substitute other addictions. Caffeine and cigarettes instead of alcohol. Are they good for you? Hell no. But they;re better than driving drunk and that's often the trade off. Comfort eating can be addressed in a therepeutic environment a lot easier than compulsive eating. You can substitute other comfort items; bubble bath, manicure, half hour with a book before doing housework etc. But those of us older types simply have to put in a lot more time exercising, and reduce food intake a great deal more than a younger person. And not everyone has three hours daily available to spend at the gym. Or the funds.

Daddyluvsitrough -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:24:17 PM)
Good point Bstardsbitch. People who are overweight DO have a choice. It's called a healthy diet & exercise. You can't change your skin color but you can change your weight. There's a huge difference there. It's a lifestyle choice but fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem starting at them in the mirror. Why? Because it's hard work and few people are willing to make the sacrifices to make the necessary change in their lives. Instead there's a mountain of excuses of why it's not their fault they're overweight and it's easier to assign blame elsewhere. The terms "body fascism" and "bigotry" are complete nonsense. Asking the non-obese people to embrace & accept those who fail to take care of their bodies and put themselves at health risks is a dangerous mentality, yet that's clearly the agenda that's being pushed here. Should we as a society be more accepting and embrace the habitual drug-user, the raging alcoholics, or the chain-smoker as well? Their lifestyle choices put their health at risk just as obese people do ... yet for some reason we should be extra-sensitive towards the heavy people so we don't hurt their feelings? Asking the healthy, height-weight proportionate people to be more accepting of the obese people is like trying to sweep a very serious problem under the rug and act like it doesn't exist ... basically you're asking the non-obese people to act as enablers for those who are obese. Should we be more accepting of people who drink a bottle of Jack Daniels a day, or those who smoke 3 packs of Marlboro's a day, or those who shoot up heroin ... is it mean to not embrace those lifestyle choices as well? Does that make me a bigot to not accept a drug-user, an alcoholic, or a chain-smoker? Is that fascism as well? Yet it's considered mean-spirited to bring up someone's weight. Why should obesity be treated differently from drugs/cigarettes/alcohol if it's a health risk all the same?

LaTigresse -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:25:23 PM)
Keep digging. It is entertaining to watch.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:31:38 PM)
Actually Ms. LaT, i wish i could "change the channel", but that's just me...

LaTigresse -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:41:09 PM)
Tulip, you have to remember my twisted sense of humour. I enjoy watching people make fools of themselves. I've never been obese, my adult daughter has been much of her life. I understand the complexities of the issue. It is rarely as simple as some people seem to think it is. Those same people, just have zero clue how nasty and hurtful their words of condemnation can be. The reality is, fat people really do know they are fat. Fat people would dearly LOVE to....yeahhhhhhh, NOT be fat. If the nasty snarky twits had half a clue as to the psychology of the issue for most overweight people, they would probably be shutting their pie holes pretty quickly. Especially if they suddenly became seriously overweight. Like I said, it really is one of the last "acceptable" predjudices in this country.

breatheasone -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:41:30 PM)
quote: You can't change your skin color Michael Jackson ring a bell? [sm=lol.gif]

breatheasone -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:45:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp quote: you can see it every day, overweight parents with overweight children. It's just wrong....so wrong. The nerve of these people passing on their DNA to their children....they should be tied to a tree, and shot! [sm=blasted.gif] Come on now... it IS more than JUST DNA, couple that with bad habits, and (well you know the rest) i wholeheartedly agree, but seriously genetics DO play a part in all this. Some would have people think it's entirely up to choice, and that sort of thinking is what contributes in part to the size superiority stance that we are seeing throughout this thread. There are many contributing factors. i posted about societal issues that take part in the obesity epidemic. But to brush over that some traits are inherited is to be somewhat irresponsible...and the poster to which i responded, seemed to state the fact that some children look like their parents as if this were a novel idea. Yep![:)] You raise a good point. However i know from personal experience bad habits instilled during childhood are a MOTHERFUCKER to break, let alone to try not to pass on to your kids. But it can be done.[;)]

lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: You can't change your skin color Michael Jackson ring a bell? [sm=lol.gif] He's assuming people would want to change their skin color...that in itself says something. ~tulip, hot cocoa caramel chick, and loving it

ShaktiSama -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:48:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough The terms "body fascism" and "bigotry" are complete nonsense. Nope, they are spot on. The rhetoric and mentality of people like you is essentially that of the witch-burner. It is blazingly apparent in your posts and the posts of many others that Fat Acceptance is, in your opinion, a heresy. You and other members of the Skinny Police essentially pit yourself to stamp it out a la Torquemada or Cotton Mather. You perceive yourself as virtuous and saintly, holding to the True Faith while you cause others pain and banish them from society. What a freaking hero. quote: Should we as a society be more accepting and embrace the habitual drug-user, the raging alcoholics, or the chain-smoker as well? Yes, we should, if we actually want to help them and change anything for the better. Even if you regard obesity as a serious problem, you have to distinguish between hating a disease or a mental illness versus hating the people who suffer from it. Your ideals of body and health are not a license to abuse others, verbally or otherwise, and furthermore your non-acceptance and inability to extend compassionate aid does nothing to help the problem; in fact it makes it worse. As for the "choices" that people make about other identities they are born with, like those related to race and sex: often we can change them, if we choose. Anyone can deny what they are and mutilate themselves to be accepted. I've seen many gay men and women do it in order to be accepted by Christian communities. I've seen many people live as a man or live as a woman, regardless of whether they were born with the right parts. Many Jews survived the Holocaust by passing for non-Jews, and people of mixed heritage can often choose whether they will acknowledge their mixed heritage or try to pass for white. The real question in my opinion is whether people are entitled to demand that others transform themselves into something they are not, in order to be accepted and permitted to live in peace. Why should black people make themselves white because the white majority think it is better? Why should gay people make themselves straight because the straight majority think it is better? Why should fat people make themselves thin because the thin majority think it is better? Why should any other human being be unhappy with themselves and their lives and change to meet a standard imposed by, and for the benefit of others? In the majority of cases, fat people are not causing thin people any harm. Their existence simply offends thin people because they are so different and they are so obviously defying the "rules" that thin people believe should be imposed on all humankind. I will never understand it, myself. I occasionally feel pity or even shiver when I see someone who has badly abused their own body, on either extreme of the Eating Disorder scale. But I never feel the need to hurt them or abuse them. I don't have that particular sickness of the soul. And I'm thankful for it every time I see a thread like this one.

Mezrem -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 3:51:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough Good point Bstardsbitch. People who are overweight DO have a choice. It's called a healthy diet & exercise. You can't change your skin color but you can change your weight. There's a huge difference there. It's a lifestyle choice but fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem starting at them in the mirror. Why? Because it's hard work and few people are willing to make the sacrifices to make the necessary change in their lives. Instead there's a mountain of excuses of why it's not their fault they're overweight and it's easier to assign blame elsewhere. The terms "body fascism" and "bigotry" are complete nonsense. Asking the non-obese people to embrace & accept those who fail to take care of their bodies and put themselves at health risks is a dangerous mentality, yet that's clearly the agenda that's being pushed here. Should we as a society be more accepting and embrace the habitual drug-user, the raging alcoholics, or the chain-smoker as well? Their lifestyle choices put their health at risk just as obese people do ... yet for some reason we should be extra-sensitive towards the heavy people so we don't hurt their feelings? Asking the healthy, height-weight proportionate people to be more accepting of the obese people is like trying to sweep a very serious problem under the rug and act like it doesn't exist ... basically you're asking the non-obese people to act as enablers for those who are obese. Should we be more accepting of people who drink a bottle of Jack Daniels a day, or those who smoke 3 packs of Marlboro's a day, or those who shoot up heroin ... is it mean to not embrace those lifestyle choices as well? Does that make me a bigot to not accept a drug-user, an alcoholic, or a chain-smoker? Is that fascism as well? Yet it's considered mean-spirited to bring up someone's weight. Why should obesity be treated differently from drugs/cigarettes/alcohol if it's a health risk all the same? You are kidding yeah? You just put being over weight in with being hooked on herion... wow... just wow. No one is saying that being over weight is not a problem.. but I don't recall the last time I asked you to pay for any part of my medical bills. As I said earlier your choices are your choices and you have a right too them.. you don't how ever have any right to tell another person to live thier life. Did it ever come to mind that it does not bother some people like it bugs you? Can you be that ego driven to think that every one feels as you do? Wow... just wow... why not round us all up and shoot us in the head now... after all we are just a bunch of genetic flaws....

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 4:05:58 PM)
~~~fast reply~~~ i was in a great mood the night i wrote this....cant say this thread has made me in one tonight.... INSTANT REPLAY BEGINS i hope its not against tos to c&p one of my own replies to a previous thread......i bet i find out if that lovely red 11 shows up in my mailbox[sm=confused.gif] i am a fat chick-i hate the bbw moniker, because all fat chicks are no more beautiful than all skinny chicks are...... i am working hard to get healthier.......i could work harder.....and some days i do......but i refuse to stop living or feel unworthy because i am fat. my body is a strange place......not to lay the blame on genetics, but yet to lay the blame on genetics, i will share the following story......... in the early 60's there was a woman, who was obese.....she had a little girl in 1960 and gave her up for adoption, she had another little girl in 1962 and gave her up for adoption also. both of these girls were most fortunate to be given to families that were able to care for them and they found each other many years later when they were both in their 30's. the woman finally got her head straight and married, which produced another lil girl, who was raised in a loving family, by this obese woman. the 2 given up for adoption were raised by non fat people. when these 3 girls met as adults, they were amazed that they all looked just like the biological mom.....as if no man was even involved in the conception-it is quite freaky to meet someone at 30 and have them be the only person you have ever seen that looked like you. they were also amazed that they were all obese. they began to talk and found out one lil thing that made them go hmmmmm........ the lil girl given up for adoption in 1960 was a size 14 until a year after having her first baby-within that time, she gained 100 pounds, even though none of her habits changed. the lil girl raised by the obese woman who was the biological mom was a size 14 until she had her first baby at 18-within a year she had gained 100 pounds and none of her eating habits had changed. and the lil girl given up in 1962(have you figured out thats me yet), was a size 14 until she had her only child, at the ripe old age of 25, and within a year of that event she(I) had gained 100 pounds, even though my diet didnt change, and having a baby i can assure you my physical activity increased. none of us knew each other, all were raised in different enviroments, yet this happened. is this an excuse? who knows..........i use it on the days it suits me .....when i am not beating me up for being weak............ my point, if you are still reading, is, genetics are a strange thing. i have a friend who is so thin, she stays sick all the time. she gets sick trying to find something with enough calories to add weight to her frame. i go to the dr every year-my bp and my cholesterol are fine......i have found out i am pre-diabetic this year and that is something i am working even harder to get healthy to avoid. i go dancing, and im damn good at it, i laugh and i cry, i wear a bathing suit in public(see profile pic if youre brave enough). you say "bbw" is flaunting fat........as i said above, bbw is something i find dumb as hell.....i am a fat chick, you may be skinny, tall, short, or just right. i dont understand what you mean by flaunting it-do you wish me to stay home and live in the dark and never subject you to seeing my fatness? life is about choices-the first time you see me laughing with friends, while in my bathing suit, it may be something that shocks you(i also have a bikini-i like tan lines what can i say) but after the first shocking image of omg how can someone fat like that "flaunt" and think they are attractive, you have a choice-dont look again. most of the men i have dated since getting divorced did not date fat chicks before me.......thank goodness they saw me, not the shell i am in. and some men prefer fat chicks. i personally do not find blonde men attractive....we all have things that turn us on. and off. and yes i know the extra weight is not healthy, and the pre diabetes shows me i am not a spring chicken anymore. i will continue to work to become a healthier individual, because i need to do that for me. but in the mean time, i will also continue to live and love, laugh and cry, and be a normal human being like you are. i am one helluva awesome human being, like me or hate me-judege me by my looks....its your problem, not mine.. lawd i may hate me in the morning, but this was so cleansing to type.

DemonKia -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 4:10:12 PM)
FR, after read thru First: Ummm, obesity as clear & present health hazard? Only at the extremes . . .. . Moderate overweight is currently being viewed as potentially 'healthier' (over the long run) than moderate underweight (can't find the link, but it's cutting edge research that's been showing that) . .. . . . . & the crucial key is 'fitness' which is not terribly discernible from appearance, despite what many might think. For instance, there's this: Better to Be Fat and Fit Than Skinny and Unfit & then: Okay, there's been some weird stuff said in this thread, & there's been a clear lack of historical context, so I dug out the following from some postings I did to our local munch group: When disease was rampant, physical labor was hard & ubiquitous, & calories were scarce, fat was a global signal of wealth, & thus desirability. Here in the industrialized world, it's only in the last 50 or so years that this formula has reversed & skinniness is the province of those who can afford personal trainers & special diets & diversions other than the entertainment of 'fun calories' . . . . . . A similar process has gone on with tanning -- when being burnt brown was a signal that one spent one's days laboring in the sun, no rich person worth their salt wanted anything to do with sun-darkened skin & paleness was the de-rigeur in-look. When the jobs of the masses went indoors, to factories & such, (& industrialization took most of the people out of farming) then only the rich had the leisure time to lay around & deliberately tan, & then tans became an article of the wealthy lifestyle . . . . . Again, a shift that only happened in the twentieth century, primarily from 1900 to 1950 . . . . . Industrialization has changed so much, flipped so many flops . . . . . . . & thus, if we're not talking about the role of the ubiquity of the automobile & it's role in keeping exercise out of people's daily lives, we're really missing something important in this discussion . . . . .. Can bash people all day long, but if there is simply no 'extra' time in their hectic, busy lives to 'take special exercise', they're prolly not gonna do it . . .. I'll reiterate what I posted earlier: I got rid of my car so I'd get exercise. How many do you expect to do similar?

SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 4:21:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW Then, you turn around here, and castigate individuals who are likely to be dealing with another set of -equally- mentally-based illnesses (food addiction, binge eating disorder, 'rescue' eating, etc.). I guess what I'm asking is, what makes the person dealing with recalcitrant depression or bipolar disorder different, in your mind, from someone dealing with recalcitrant binge-eating disorder, aside from the realization that the binge-eating person's illness shows in hir physical body and makes it apparent that xhe isn't "normal"? Especially when it is a documented fact that both illnesses (and compulsive overeating, food addiction, etc.) are equally as responsive (or unresponsive) as bipolar disorder and depression to medication/behavioral therapy. I wonder what the proportions look like as far as how pervasive these diseases and disorders are. I would hazard a guess that they are overwhlmingly a US and western European thing and that you don't get a whole lot of cases of these in Africa, South America and Asia.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 4:56:56 PM)
I have a feeling that these disorders are underdiagnosed in Africa, South America and Asia because of a dreath of doctors. In fact, possibly there is more depression in those continents - Lord only knows, I would be depressed if I couldn't get enough to eat, or no education, or no job opportunities - or even have to deal with AIDS without a doctor. It's a somewhat fellacious argument to say that a disease isn't present just because it isn't diagnosed.

DemonKia -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:05:05 PM)
Yep. We were drilled on this in a number of statistics classes . .. . . . . The absence of data is not evidence of absence. Trips up people all the time. Basically, in the industrialized world, prior to about 1950 hardly any data was collected that would be comparable to the kinds of data that started getting collected post-1950 . . .. . But people frequently misinterpret this as meaning that 'those things' didn't happen before X date . . . . Wrong. No one kept accurate track, by today's standards. That's all. It's kinda like saying that ums aren't born if there aren't birth certificates to prove their births . . . . . . . quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 It's a somewhat fellacious argument to say that a disease isn't present just because it isn't diagnosed.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:12:10 PM)
Tulip DOES look like a movie star... just saying.[:)]

SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 It's a somewhat fellacious argument to say that a disease isn't present just because it isn't diagnosed. Not what I'm saying but I'd be willing to wager that even in the western world, there are a lot more instances of these disorders or diseases in the US than Japan or Sweden, for example. My point is that it seems like we're quick to use whatever disorder or diagnosis that's thrown our way to excuse our behavior instead of as a way to take actions while understanding it. As previously mentioned in this thread, I worked in the healthcare industry and saw a lot of reports and analysis about mental health costs and treatment. Some of the things that people want covered under the AWDA is just mindboggling and scary. Pretty soon we will have a disorder for any behavior that causes anything negative in anyone's life, in the end though, whether or not those disorders or diseases are legitimate or not doesn't matter in he grand scheme of things. Does having some sort of sucrose addiction or whatever make it harder to diet? I'd imagine it does, but how does that affect the person't ability to exercise? Along those lines is sucrose more or less addictive then heroin, tobacoo, cheezits or any other addictive substance that millions of people have given up? Using these things as the reasons why people are unhealthy is one thing, but allowing them to be used as excuses is just weaksauce in my opinion. I'm going to fight my chicken wing, beer and hockey addictions to go to the gym now. It's leg day. I fucking hate leg day.

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