RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance?

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lronitulstahp -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:16:26 PM)
You are a dear slides $20 into Hib's palm stealthily

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:17:57 PM)
It's TRUE, I have the PICTURES!

JonnieBoy -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 5:19:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia Yep. We were drilled on this in a number of statistics classes . .. . . . . The absence of data is not evidence of absence. Trips up people all the time. Basically, in the industrialized world, prior to about 1950 hardly any data was collected that would be comparable to the kinds of data that started getting collected post-1950 . . .. . But people frequently misinterpret this as meaning that 'those things' didn't happen before X date . . . . Wrong. No one kept accurate track, by today's standards. That's all. It's kinda like saying that ums aren't born if there aren't birth certificates to prove their births . . . . . . . quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 It's a somewhat fellacious argument to say that a disease isn't present just because it isn't diagnosed. Where I live we are told that once (even before the Romans), there was no writing ... I say there was, it's just that "the educated" cannot see it because they are looking for something they would wish to see, rather than what is in front of them. (if that makes sense in the y2k9 ?) Is this about size, scale or scope? Pirate

greeneyedreamer -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 6:52:22 PM)
quote: Regarding the initial topic, why should a group be more accepting to size? obesity is by far the most dangerous thing in this country right now and shouldn't be applauded or accepted. Hmm, so you are saying fat people don't deserve love? Whoa! Don't be so hard on yourself. Everyone, no matter what their size deserves love and to be accepted for who they are. So even chubbies deserve love. YOU know that.

SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 7:12:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: greeneyedreamer quote: Regarding the initial topic, why should a group be more accepting to size? obesity is by far the most dangerous thing in this country right now and shouldn't be applauded or accepted. Hmm, so you are saying fat people don't deserve love? Whoa! I'm sorry, where did I say this? Way to completely misconstrue something. Did I also say that it's okay to kick puppies in that paragraph as well?

stella41b -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 7:32:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough People who are overweight DO have a choice. It's called a healthy diet & exercise. You can't change your skin color but you can change your weight. There's a huge difference there. That is as you perceive it but I'm pretty sure that you cannot be absolutely certain on the basis of one concrete example. And I bet you can't define what exactly is 'a healthy diet and exercise' for anyone either. There's numerous causes, metabolic, emotional, psychological, physical, and while there are choices there's also circumstances, such things as karotypes, and so many different factors which need to be taken into consideration. But you know from looking at someone who is visibly overweight I'd hazard a guess and suggest that obesity is actually a physical process. This however makes it far less of a choice than just looking at someone, jumping to a conclusion , making up some excuse for a prejudice without bothering to show any insight or understanding. quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough It's a lifestyle choice but fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem starting at them in the mirror. Why? Because it's hard work and few people are willing to make the sacrifices to make the necessary change in their lives. Instead there's a mountain of excuses of why it's not their fault they're overweight and it's easier to assign blame elsewhere. The terms "body fascism" and "bigotry" are complete nonsense. So is being a bigot and a fascist and it could be said the self same that fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem facing them in the mirror. Why? Well in this case it takes a few qualities such as common sense, innate human understanding, compassion not to mention a little tact and good manners but that would require of course consideration for other people, which might burn up a few brain cells. Instead there's a mountain of excuses why it is their fault they're overweight and much easier to blame the victim than to actually own up to the issue and admit the truth. quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough Asking the non-obese people to embrace & accept those who fail to take care of their bodies and put themselves at health risks is a dangerous mentality, yet that's clearly the agenda that's being pushed here. Should we as a society be more accepting and embrace the habitual drug-user, the raging alcoholics, or the chain-smoker as well? Their lifestyle choices put their health at risk just as obese people do ... yet for some reason we should be extra-sensitive towards the heavy people so we don't hurt their feelings? Asking the healthy, height-weight proportionate people to be more accepting of the obese people is like trying to sweep a very serious problem under the rug and act like it doesn't exist ... basically you're asking the non-obese people to act as enablers for those who are obese. Not really asking much from the body fascists and bigots among the non-obese because it's a waste of time. However nobody else is obliging the obese to act like eye candy for the rest of society, and nobody is really that interested if the obese offend the aesthetic sensitivities of the visually intolerant. But this isn't about just hurting their feelings, it's about someone going out of their way to upset, offend and hurt the feelings of the obese without any provocation or justification which makes such bigotry and body fascism a social issue - it is when all is said and done anti-social behaviour. And this is the crux of the matter, the anti-social behaviour and discrimination against the obese simply because they don't conform to some predetermined body shape. quote: ORIGINAL: Daddyluvsitrough Should we be more accepting of people who drink a bottle of Jack Daniels a day, or those who smoke 3 packs of Marlboro's a day, or those who shoot up heroin ... is it mean to not embrace those lifestyle choices as well? Does that make me a bigot to not accept a drug-user, an alcoholic, or a chain-smoker? Is that fascism as well? Yet it's considered mean-spirited to bring up someone's weight. Why should obesity be treated differently from drugs/cigarettes/alcohol if it's a health risk all the same? Should we be more accepting of the Jack Daniels drinker, the smoker or drug addicts? I'll leave it open to discussion whether these are actually lifestyle choices or coping strategies for deeper social issues and again overlooking another strawman argument argue that in light of the social issue above - i.e. anti-social behaviour and discrimination are issues which need to be addressed on a par with racism, homophobia and transphobia. You see it goes back to the 'us and them' mentality and way of thinking of social stigma and ascribing such people with 'status loss' and 'discrimination' and regarding such people as undesirable and unfit for normal society. This isn't being so much mean-spirited as being anti-social and I for one feel that anti-social behaviour, irrespective of its motivation or how it manifests itself, has no place in a modern society. I am writing anti-social behaviour and not bigotry or body fascism because I'm not PC and being a bigot or a body fascist is a human weakness just like any other.

GotSteel -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 8:03:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Why bother to come up with such drivel in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to own one's issues and admit 'I am a body fascist' or 'I am a bigot' or even 'I enjoy putting down fat people even if the complexities of obesity are way beyond my intellectual reasoning capabilities'? Why the need to quote dubious statistics from even more dubious studies or express through false platitudes fake concern for their health and wellbeing when you don't really give a sh*t because it blows your arguments out of the water? The victim blaming strategy doesn't wash. You jumped to the conclusion, you made the judgment and formed the opinion, it's your issue - own it. Is this directed at me, the authors of the articles or someone else entirely? It kind of seems like your trying to attack my character and vilify me when I haven't even offered any opinion on this subject. Having seen a reference to one of these studies on the evening news I did a google search and posted an article about it, seemed to me that it had to do with the topic of discussion. A couple of people have made accusations about the quality of said study, the thing is last I knew the New England Journal of Medicine was a reputable publication, so I'd love for someone who knows about such things to actually talk about what's wrong with this study. That's kind of why I brought it up.

CuddlyCreative -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 8:37:08 PM)
I agree with EmelineRose that one reason--perhaps the main reason--that so many men refuse to date fat women is because they do not want to be seen with them in public, not because they are never attracted to fat women. That sort of cowardice and excess concern about what other people think of you is decidedly undominant and extremely unattractive to me.

CuddlyCreative -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 8:49:05 PM)
HollywoodExecDom wrote: "I think that Dominant men are generally more willing to lower their standards for a submissive women who weighs more than they otherwise would..." You know, it's one thing to have a personal preference for thin women, it's quite another to characterize dating a fat woman as "lowering" one's standards. Changing one's standards, maybe. Opening one's closed mind, sure. But using the word "lowering" implies that there is something inherently wrong with fat women, that they are lesser beings than thin women, in some absolute sense. It's not only offensive but it reveals the immature attitude of the man in question, if he thinks that his personal preferences map to "better than" and "worse than" in the world outside his own mind. "I do NOT have empathy, however, for those who are CONTENT with being even moderately overweight or aren't in the process of doing anything about it." The assumption that there's something "wrong" with being fat, and the fat person better be taking XYZ actions to "fix" it, is just that: an ASSumption. Not a fact. You are expecting the rest of the world to kowtow to your own personal definitions of what is right or wrong. Well, believe it or not, people don't exist to do exactly what YOU believe they should do, but they have the right to pursue their own sense of what is good, and to spend their time on their own fulfillment, not in conforming to what you want them to be! Your spelling and grammar leave something to be desired, and that's very unattractive TO ME. That doesn't mean you are "wrong" for being less articulate than some people. And it would not be a reasonable assumption to make that you should value writing skills as much as I do, and devote your precious time on this earth to improving them if that is not what you personally value. (Edited to remove excess harshness)

stella41b -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 8:51:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Why bother to come up with such drivel in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to own one's issues and admit 'I am a body fascist' or 'I am a bigot' or even 'I enjoy putting down fat people even if the complexities of obesity are way beyond my intellectual reasoning capabilities'? Why the need to quote dubious statistics from even more dubious studies or express through false platitudes fake concern for their health and wellbeing when you don't really give a sh*t because it blows your arguments out of the water? The victim blaming strategy doesn't wash. You jumped to the conclusion, you made the judgment and formed the opinion, it's your issue - own it. Is this directed at me, the authors of the articles or someone else entirely? It kind of seems like your trying to attack my character and vilify me when I haven't even offered any opinion on this subject. Having seen a reference to one of these studies on the evening news I did a google search and posted an article about it, seemed to me that it had to do with the topic of discussion. A couple of people have made accusations about the quality of said study, the thing is last I knew the New England Journal of Medicine was a reputable publication, so I'd love for someone who knows about such things to actually talk about what's wrong with this study. That's kind of why I brought it up. No it isn't. My opinion was based on the two articles not on what you posted.

CuddlyCreative -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 8:58:48 PM)
" Should we be more accepting of the Jack Daniels drinker, the smoker or drug addicts?" I just hate statements masquerading as questions, but in this instance I'll treat it as though it were actually a sincere question. YES, we should be more tolerant of people with these issues. Find me a perfect person with no issues and I'll show you someone you don't know very well. It's just a matter of whether you know about a given person's issues or not. Some issues are harder to hide than others. One reason fat prejudice is so common is because it's so easy. Those looking for a target for their hatred have an obvious one right in front of them. It's impossible to hide obesity. Alcoholics and addicts are extremely common, and often actively hide their addiction from most, exactly because they know people would be judgemental if they knew. It would probably be healthier for all of us if we didn't have to hide all of our vulnerabilities, challenges, weaknesses, and sore spots. Fat people don't get the option not to.

CuddlyCreative -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 9:03:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Why bother to come up with such drivel in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to own one's issues and admit 'I am a body fascist' or 'I am a bigot' or even 'I enjoy putting down fat people even if the complexities of obesity are way beyond my intellectual reasoning capabilities'? Why the need to quote dubious statistics from even more dubious studies or express through false platitudes fake concern for their health and wellbeing when you don't really give a sh*t because it blows your arguments out of the water? The victim blaming strategy doesn't wash. You jumped to the conclusion, you made the judgment and formed the opinion, it's your issue - own it. Is this directed at me, the authors of the articles or someone else entirely? It kind of seems like your trying to attack my character and vilify me when I haven't even offered any opinion on this subject. Having seen a reference to one of these studies on the evening news I did a google search and posted an article about it, seemed to me that it had to do with the topic of discussion. A couple of people have made accusations about the quality of said study, the thing is last I knew the New England Journal of Medicine was a reputable publication, so I'd love for someone who knows about such things to actually talk about what's wrong with this study. That's kind of why I brought it up. I'm not sure why people who disagree with your bigotry are obliged to spend time crafting a point-by-point response. Are you willing to do some reading of your own in exchange? I'd be happy to make some suggestions. I've read and thought a tremendous amount about this topic--and not just the propaganda pushed by diet product manufacturers and reported in popular media to rationalize current societal attitudes. It's frustrating when I try to discuss this stuff with fat haters, because they invariably are only interested in those bits and pieces that back up what they've already decided to believe.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 9:33:06 PM)
And we'd all be free not to date them, just as they'd be free not to date us fat people. However we should't go out of our way to belittle or shame the others. quote: ORIGINAL: CuddlyCreative " Should we be more accepting of the Jack Daniels drinker, the smoker or drug addicts?" I just hate statements masquerading as questions, but in this instance I'll treat it as though it were actually a sincere question. YES, we should be more tolerant of people with these issues. Find me a perfect person with no issues and I'll show you someone you don't know very well. It's just a matter of whether you know about a given person's issues or not. Some issues are harder to hide than others. One reason fat prejudice is so common is because it's so easy. Those looking for a target for their hatred have an obvious one right in front of them. It's impossible to hide obesity. Alcoholics and addicts are extremely common, and often actively hide their addiction from most, exactly because they know people would be judgemental if they knew. It would probably be healthier for all of us if we didn't have to hide all of our vulnerabilities, challenges, weaknesses, and sore spots. Fat people don't get the option not to.

WyldHrt -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 9:59:02 PM)
quote: It's a lifestyle choice but fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem starting at them in the mirror. Why? Because it's hard work and few people are willing to make the sacrifices to make the necessary change in their lives. Instead there's a mountain of excuses of why it's not their fault they're overweight and it's easier to assign blame elsewhere. The terms "body fascism" and "bigotry" are complete nonsense. Those terms aren't nonsense; you are exhibiting them quite well, TYVM. As to fewer people tackling "the problem in the mirror" and blaming others- you have about no clue what you are talking about, cupcake. I work a full time job and am pretty much on my feet and moving 8 hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week. When I get off work, going to some gym to "work out" has about the appeal of pulling all my fingernails out with a pair of pliers, and dinner isn't always the most healthy thing I could choose to eat, although my crock pot does overtime. Should I feel the need for a burger and fries though, feel free to sue me for emotional distress. [8\|] That said- at 34, you should "get" the fact that it's just not that easy. If you haven't hit the "if you keep doing X, you will have a lot of pain when you are older" schtick, then you have no hope of understanding where I'm going here. I can only wish that you will understand one day. Honestly, if you have reached 34 without hearing that, I have to wonder what the heck you were doing in your youth. quote: Asking the non-obese people to embrace & accept those who fail to take care of their bodies and put themselves at health risks is a dangerous mentality, yet that's clearly the agenda that's being pushed here. Should we as a society be more accepting and embrace the habitual drug-user, the raging alcoholics, or the chain-smoker as well? Again I say "Uummmm". I am not obese, but really resent your implication here. Fat people are somehow on a par with heroin addicts now? When did THAT happen, and where was I?? That said, how do you feel about the thousands of girls who make themselves throw up on a daily basis to keep their "cool" figure, or those who starve themselves into a size 2 because that is what guys supposedly want? Is it more "healthy" if it's hot to you? quote: Asking the healthy, height-weight proportionate people to be more accepting of the obese people is like trying to sweep a very serious problem under the rug and act like it doesn't exist ... basically you're asking the non-obese people to act as enablers for those who are obese. Little secret, sweet cheeks. Most of us don't really give a crap what you (collective) think. While we could do without the "caring about the fatties' health while whaling on them for being lazy" bullshit, we mostly let it go. I'll bypass the rest of your post, as those issues are being addressed elsewhere.

breatheasone -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 10:15:03 PM)
[sm=mrpuffy.gif] FAT PEOPLE ARE BIG POOPY HEADS!!! [sm=pillowfight.gif][sm=mrpuffy.gif]

DavanKael -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/19/2009 10:25:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite Davan, are you still going to re-read Stranger? [:D] LaT, they came up right away when I searched for the quotes, and I think they have even more impact when you can actually see what he's talking about. GotSteel, I don't think this study is going to be borne out by future research in a direct causative fashion - it's not like second hand smoke giving other people cancer. LadyPact, I think some communities are more welcoming/accepting than others (not just toward bigger people, but in general), and the same goes for individuals. I can't compare it to the South, since I've only visited there for a week, twice, but I doubt anyone will treat you badly after your move out here. I hope you'll be able to get up to the Bay Area for the occasional fetish event or whatever, and I'd love to meet you! I hope the move goes smoothly for you, and that you find some compatible local guys to play with once you get out here. I don't think Central CA has as much of a formal BDSM scene, but there are a lot of people from CM in that area. Of course. :> Davan

Prinsexx -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/20/2009 12:01:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuddlyCreative I agree with EmelineRose that one reason--perhaps the main reason--that so many men refuse to date fat women is because they do not want to be seen with them in public, not because they are never attracted to fat women. That sort of cowardice and excess concern about what other people think of you is decidedly undominant and extremely unattractive to me. Not being seen in public with a fat woman is a pure cultural bias. i think the tide is turning here in the so-called civilised 1st World. Where food is at a shortage fat becomes a sign of wealth. When the designers start elevating their couture to the needs of plus sizes then the Fashionistas will all be bulking out. AND there's money in plus sizex.

Prinsexx -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/20/2009 12:03:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b So is being a bigot and a fascist and it could be said the self same that fewer and fewer are willing to tackle the problem facing them in the mirror. i'm a body fascist Stella as you know. i just don't give anyone else the right to be.

GYPZYQUEEN -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/20/2009 12:32:14 AM)
1)In the last year I have lost 110 lbs...I did not want to die.. I struggled all my life..the only way I did this was to have a totally empty fridge and cupboards.. and buy for each meal At night I cried I was so hungry and I fought the obession about food that has been with me forever..when I was 2 I ate a whole carmel pudding that I stole IT I S NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE!! wtf?? I di d not ask to be this way..it happened for many reasons...that many have talked about...family..abuse...husbands death....mental illness,,,,loss..environment.. I do take reponsibilty for what goes in my mouth( and what comes out) ..unlike alcohol or cigs........I need food to survive.. I am not a pig...I am not lazy....I never stop thinking about food..ever...it is constant...........I fight smells of foods ..pictures...ads..suggestions...my mind 2) I have always had ppl accept me because I accept my self and NEVER had a shortage of men... ever...if some can't see past my armour tough shit 3) fat prejudice is the last "acceptable" prejudice.. .becasue ppl see it as easy to deal with..fix.. or that we are lazy..fuck that 4) Each year I do a thing for International Woman's Day around fat prejudice I make a bookmark to hand out...called HOOCHY MAMA with fat chicks on it and I tell about statititics such as HALF the pop.is size 14 but.... the size accepted -portrayed as sexy .is about a 5 about bulimia as a result of media/pressure(girls on diets at 8) etc and I ask ppl to take a look at HOW they see us fat chicks.. not so they accept US BUT TO HELP ALLEVIATE A FORM HUMAN IGNORANCE IN GENERAL GQ.,,,,,,,,, now 1/2 a hoochy mama and** CBW confident big woman... PS...... and also BBW as flauting???..hmmmmmmmm you are flaunting your NT narrow thinking

MstrTiger -> RE: Are BDSMers better at size acceptance? (5/20/2009 3:31:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuddlyCreative I agree with EmelineRose that one reason--perhaps the main reason--that so many men refuse to date fat women is because they do not want to be seen with them in public, not because they are never attracted to fat women. That sort of cowardice and excess concern about what other people think of you is decidedly undominant and extremely unattractive to me. I do not agree with this in the slightest, there is a social stigma attached to dating a fatty I guess though the major overriding factor is that most guys and a lot of ladies simply do not find overweight people attractive. You can dress it up however you want though unfortunately that is just the way of things. When it comes to finding a sexual partner I discriminate against fat people without any shame whatsoever, I just do not find it attractive, why should I go with someone who I don’t find attractive just to make them feel happy about the fact they are the size of a house?

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