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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:00:04 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

It's a question of how incarcerated people are treated while in custody or imprisoned or whathaveyou. Just because someone has comitted a crime (especially a non-violent one) doesn't mean that they should now have to endure any and all horrors that come their way. That's the issue that's on the table.
Ok...i see your point, certainly.

However...it is what it is. And the treatment of prisoners is not a well guarded secret. If she was unaware of what prison life is like (which i doubt) then all she had to do was look on-line....there are blogs upon blogs of prisoners rants. Also, it is a pretty safe bet that she had a taste of incarceration when she was arrested the first time.

She put herself in this position.


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:00:53 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133
It's called punishment for a reason...it you are out or on probation and screw up AGAIN then I have no sympathy.
I do believe that such punishment is predominantly without effect. The single worthwile advantage of incarceration is that it protects society from harmful people.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:04:02 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
It's a question of how incarcerated people are treated while in custody or imprisoned or whathaveyou.  Just because someone has comitted a crime (especially a non-violent one) doesn't mean that they should now have to endure any and all horrors that come their way.  That's the issue that's on the table.
Quite. The atrocities endured by prisoners are unchristian. In fact they are reminiscent of the barbaric Old Testament and sharia punishments.

well gee...how is this for a novel approach: Stop breaking the law and the unchristian, barbaric sharia punishments would be a moot point.


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:05:27 AM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

It's called punishment for a reason...it you are out or on probation and screw up AGAIN then I have no sympathy.


I don't think it's so much about sympathy, as it is about circumstances and things not necessarily being black and white.

If you don't mind my asking....do you agree or disagree with this statement:

Any person who commits any crime under any circumstances, deserves any and all consequences they encounter.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:05:48 AM   
scifi1133


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133
It's called punishment for a reason...it you are out or on probation and screw up AGAIN then I have no sympathy.
I do believe that such punishment is predominantly without effect. The single worthwile advantage of incarceration is that it protects society from harmful people.
No it's a punishment. It serves no purpose to just let people go about their normal lives after breaking the law. There is no punishment there.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:07:43 AM   
scifi1133


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

It's called punishment for a reason...it you are out or on probation and screw up AGAIN then I have no sympathy.


I don't think it's so much about sympathy, as it is about circumstances and things not necessarily being black and white.

If you don't mind my asking....do you agree or disagree with this statement:

Any person who commits any crime under any circumstances, deserves any and all consequences they encounter.
I agree that if you break the law then you serve whatever time the judge and or a jury of your peers deems you have to serve.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:10:11 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Any person who commits any crime under any circumstances, deserves any and all consequences they encounter.

Prison is prison. Period. Same food. Same treatment. Same thin mattresses, etc.

I do not care what someone is sent there for, As was said...you do the crime you do the time.

The difference lies in the time you are incarcerated.




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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:11:29 AM   
scifi1133


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:11:35 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133
It serves no purpose to just let people go about their normal lives after breaking the law.
Have I advocated anywhere to just let people go about their normal lives after breaking the law? I have not. But there is effective punishment and ineffective punishement, just like there are horses and cows.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:12:50 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133
It serves no purpose to just let people go about their normal lives after breaking the law.
Have I advocated anywhere to just let people go about their normal lives after breaking the law? I have not. But there is effective punishment and ineffective punishement, just like there are horses and cows.
Rule...she was given the chance to go about her normal life after she was arrested the first time. She blew it.


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:12:55 AM   
scifi1133


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Status: offline 		stop with the farm animals, but as Holly just stated above the difference is in the amount of time you serve.

< Message edited by scifi1133 -- 5/20/2009 7:13:17 AM >

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:16:17 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
how is this for a novel approach: Stop breaking the law and the unchristian, barbaric sharia punishments would be a moot point.
Very sad.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:18:26 AM   
scifi1133


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Status: offline 		Why is that sad that's a valid point.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:20:02 AM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Any person who commits any crime under any circumstances, deserves any and all consequences they encounter.

Prison is prison. Period. Same food. Same treatment. Same thin mattresses, etc.

I do not care what someone is sent there for, As was said...you do the crime you do the time.

The difference lies in the time you are incarcerated.





Yes, I don't disagree, if you commit a crime,  are given a fair trial, and a punishment or sentence is handed down,  you do the time.

I'm refering to the stuff that happens in between.  GypsyQueen was a good example....Yes there was a warrant for an unpaid ticket or something....but until they even knew whether or not she was guilty or even if they had the right person,  they put her in the cell with Cobra Woman, the gang banger. 

But even with the OP....yes she did skip state on probation....a crime for sure...but on the way to be judged for this in order to receive her punshiment, she encounters A B and C.  My point is that she deserves the punishment, but not necessarily the A B and C that might happen to her on the way to the courthouse. 

These are just hypotheticals here:  What if she wasn't given food and water, and bathroom facilities to use, what if she was put in harm's way with hardened murderers who have nothing to lose if they cut someone else's throat, what if she was left in 32 degree temperatures in the van for 2 days?  This is the type of thing that I'm refering to, not whether or not they should do the time.

In other words, if someone commits a crime, do they deserve any and all treatment because they are a criminal, or do they just deserve the punishment handed down by a judge?

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:20:51 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
Rule...she was given the chance to go about her normal life after she was arrested the first time. She blew it.
As many crimes and imprisoned people as there are in the USA, indicates that the USA as a society is sick. Something is very wrong over there.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:21:15 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
how is this for a novel approach: Stop breaking the law and the unchristian, barbaric sharia punishments would be a moot point.
Very sad.

Sorry Rule...i am a hard ass about some things. Ignorance of the law is an excuse she could obviously not claim. She knew right from wrong. She knew what a probation violation was. She knew writing a bad check was a probation violation. She knew if she violated her probation she was going to be incarcerated.

Her fault.

If she didn't want the treatment of prison life she should have not broken the law.


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:23:51 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133
Why is that sad that's a valid point.

I am sorry for you as well.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:25:34 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

other words, if someone commits a crime, do they deserve any and all treatment because they are a criminal, or do they just deserve the punishment handed down by a judge?


the punishment handed down by the judge was prison.

Prison is not a nice place. Bubba wants to be your Daddy and the guy in the next cell wants to add your scalp to his collection.

The judge sentenced them to prison, and THIS is prison life. Not nice. Not nice at all. She had her chance and she blew it.


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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:26:00 AM   
scifi1133


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Status: offline 		Yes there are some situations that need to be corrected but instead of crying on here run for sherrif or go work in a jail system and fix them from the inside. When you become a ward of the state you go and do what the state says....period....people are all treated the same inside because you never know who is going to go off at any given time. It's just as much for the officers safety as for the prisoners safety. As for putting non violent and violent offenders together with overcrowding these are the things that happen if you don't want to end up in a cell with a gang banger then don't break the law to get put there.

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RE: Prison visitation - 5/20/2009 7:26:30 AM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: scifi1133

It's called punishment for a reason...it you are out or on probation and screw up AGAIN then I have no sympathy.


I don't think it's so much about sympathy, as it is about circumstances and things not necessarily being black and white.

If you don't mind my asking....do you agree or disagree with this statement:

Any person who commits any crime under any circumstances, deserves any and all consequences they encounter.
I agree that if you break the law then you serve whatever time the judge and or a jury of your peers deems you have to serve.


Why not make it more logical to make the punishment fit a specific crime? From what I gather from your opinion is a person who commits a minor crime be charged at the same level as a drug dealer, or someone who commits an assault be charged as if they committed second degree murder? 


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