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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 6:26:12 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I love that word - 'edify'.  It's such an underused word IMO.  And to a synaesthesic, tastes like chocolate.
I believe it would rock if more people edified their relationships just in general.
 
the.dark.

Thankyou, that was nice to hear. Which is kinda inline with my point. i LOVE that Master and i are very free with genuine compliments to each other. When He has a good idea, does something nice, or whatever the case may be, i will say so to Him. And likewise, When  i do or say something pleasing, He voices that to me. Its nice to have that ....in a world that can knock you down.


< Message edited by breatheasone -- 5/20/2009 6:28:46 AM >

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 8:39:48 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i've been thinking about this, and for me Master and i just have a relationship...We both edify each other, We both have disappointed each other. But We have grown together through it. blame isn't a big issue, and rewards aren't a big issue.... We have each other AND great communication and respect for each other....THATS the bigger issue(for me)


Blame isn't anything to do with accepting penalty or punishment.

agirl

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 2:32:21 PM   
Fadingthought


Posts: 41
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline 		Punishment is only give for willful disobedience, say I was taking my sub away for the weekend at a B&B and I told her to pack dresses because I love how she looks in them. If we got there and she packed nothing but pants, she would get punished. It would be something she wouldn't enjoy very much, but the key would be, after it was all over she would know she was forgiven.

Simple rules like that, if it was a greater relationship issue, I wouldn't break out my cane, we'd deal with it like adults.
But you have to tailor each thing to your relationship.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 2:35:18 PM   
Delphinus


Posts: 146
Joined: 11/26/2008
Status: offline 		I wouldn't say that we have an emphasis on punishment, but punishment does certainly play a role.  There are certain things that need to be done differently for my own good, not just his.  He expects that I will fulfill these obligations and honestly?  The threat of punishment does force me to do it and then...as a result...my life goes that much more smoothly. 

It doesn't happen much.  I obey. 

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 2:45:54 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

i've been thinking about this, and for me Master and i just have a relationship...We both edify each other, We both have disappointed each other. But We have grown together through it. blame isn't a big issue, and rewards aren't a big issue.... We have each other AND great communication and respect for each other....THATS the bigger issue(for me)


Blame isn't anything to do with accepting penalty or punishment.

agirl


i agree thats why i said it wasn't a big issue....


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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 3:10:52 PM   
Fitznicely


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Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I'd love to know the proportion of people who equate punishment with enjoyment. W/we certainly don't.

Definitely pain does have a place at playtime. I've invested years in showing My girl the sensual benefits of caning/spanking/torture and she's taken her lessons well, being quite the delicious little painslut. But what I do to her at these times, I could never call punishment. Oh, and i have NO problem describing it as play. God forbid W/we ever get to the point of being so deadly earnest about the lifestyle that W/we forget to have fun...

Punishment, on the other hand, should be feared. It should be a solid motivation to strive for excellence and good service. In the three years I've had My collar around her neck, I think she's been properly punished (I prefer a traditional caning) twice. It demonstrated not only the harsh difference between 50 strokes at play time and three strokes as a punishment, but also the fact that I was actually willing to administer it.

It's been such an effective demonstration that the mere threat is enough - not that I have to threaten anymore. On the rare occasions where she does need bringing up short, a telling off, a sharp word or even a stern look is all that's needed.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 3:13:19 PM   
AlexandraLynch


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Status: offline 		There's precisely one thing that will get my girl bent over and recieving disciplinary action, and that is picking. She is compulsively truthful, and has a problem with picking at her skin that she is working on stopping. So if she does so, she tells us, there is a firm swat for each pick.  But this is, you understand, by mutual choice.

Otherwise, losing privilege is what is going to happen, losing opportunity, and impairment of what we see as our future together.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 3:27:33 PM   
beltainefaerie


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Status: offline 		I have rarely been punished.  I know that if I displease my Master he could punish me, as he has at least twice.  I also know what to do to please him and prefer to do it.  I do not need constant threat or constant vigilence to make me behave.  I desire to serve and please him, whether the individual activities are enjoyable or not. I am sometimes rewarded for especially good behaviour or for something that was particularly difficult for me to do/not do, but I don't expect rewards any more than I fear punishment.

Also on the subject of punishment, some people find it difficult to punish a masochist.  While I am a masochist, I am certainly just as easy to punish as anyone else.  Aside from the obvious denial of favorite activities, certain kinds of pain are still painful in a more traditional sense. Though I do things I like and things I severely dislike in scenes with him, the things that I dislike are easier to take when they are for his pleasure than they are if I know I am specifically getting hit with an implement I dislike, because he is unhappy with me. 

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 4:17:10 PM   
Prinsexx


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Status: offline 		What a great question...

i mean i do go with the prescriptive meaning of reward and punishment (why fuck with the dictionary? This means that punishment equals pain/discomfort/absence or withdrawal of reward and reward equals pleasure/comfort/sensual gratification.

It's just when He says: ~Now what shall I do? Fuck you or beat you?~ and it isn't even a question: i know i have my wires crossed.


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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 6:59:36 PM   
Drakontos


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Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline 		Master prefers to call it discipline instead of punishment. In his house, discipline is used only if zaphira deliberatly attempts to disobey.
Master also does use a reward system; but not as a means of rewarding good behavior. zaphira earns certain priveledges; such as going to a movie, shopping, a trip to the mountains; priveledges such as those.



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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 7:18:10 PM   
chamberqueen


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From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		People seemed to have talked about punishment here much more than the reward.  With the reward I think it is important that you realize when you are getting it.  Imagine being told that you were going to get a special reward for the initiative that had been shown in a situation, and for the next month thinking, "have I gotten it yet?".  It could be as simple as saying, "here is your reward", or having it be something that stands out enough so that there is no doubt that it is.




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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 7:38:03 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
i personally couldn't thrive if i was in a relationship where my collar could be taken away if i disobey just once. i would be so worried about losing my "master" that i wouldn't be able to relax into the relationship and grow...i would be "on guard" all the time...for me that just would not be healthy.

*nods* every situation is unique. The thing that you are responding to in your post doesn't map to her collar, it maps to her wedding ring. If I were to say, "If you disobey me I will divorce you." that'd be about right (and the mere thought of that statement is horrific to me). In this case, it is simply me not wanting to use inaccurate terminology. If it's a slave collar, then she obeys. But I'm way open to other alternatives... She cannot lose 'me', only the the label 'slave'. The thing that is us transcends our roles as husband/wife, or master/slave, or friends, or any of those myriad roles we have.

But yes, all that being said, my definition of slave is pretty clear... it's kind of a literal view on things... my literal property which I expect to obey me. Another way to look at it is that there is absolutely zero coercion here at all. She cannot lose me or my love. So if she wants to stake out the word label 'slave' then fine.. but I expect her to honor the choice or stop claiming the label.


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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 7:54:58 PM   
cpK69


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Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		Punishment can be a confusing concept. With parents, it is revenge for not being able to get one’s kids to do what they want.

Sir uses the term, but with him, it is about consequence. Not so much in any action I have committed that has caused him unhappiness, but in my choice to be his submissive.

I like doing things I enjoy, who doesn’t, but to be rewarded for being ‘good’, as if what I was doing wasn’t expected of me; seems like being treated as a child, just as much as being “punished” does.

Being treated as a child isn't always a bad thing (I appreciated, very much, the birthday spanking, last year), but when it comes to disapline; I don't see either way as being helpful.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 5/20/2009 7:58:35 PM >

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/20/2009 9:42:11 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
i personally couldn't thrive if i was in a relationship where my collar could be taken away if i disobey just once. i would be so worried about losing my "master" that i wouldn't be able to relax into the relationship and grow...i would be "on guard" all the time...for me that just would not be healthy.

*nods* every situation is unique. The thing that you are responding to in your post doesn't map to her collar, it maps to her wedding ring. If I were to say, "If you disobey me I will divorce you." that'd be about right (and the mere thought of that statement is horrific to me). In this case, it is simply me not wanting to use inaccurate terminology. If it's a slave collar, then she obeys. But I'm way open to other alternatives... She cannot lose 'me', only the the label 'slave'. The thing that is us transcends our roles as husband/wife, or master/slave, or friends, or any of those myriad roles we have.

But yes, all that being said, my definition of slave is pretty clear... it's kind of a literal view on things... my literal property which I expect to obey me. Another way to look at it is that there is absolutely zero coercion here at all. She cannot lose me or my love. So if she wants to stake out the word label 'slave' then fine.. but I expect her to honor the choice or stop claiming the label.


i hear you, and i truly respect your stance. It still would just  be the end of me....i would be worried, and on guard all the time... That kind of pressure would crush me.

Master and i work well together, He and i have a good relationship. i submit to His wishes, and His will even when i disagree, or don't want to. (in my mind) That makes it more sweet than bitter. i have messed up, and done what i would consider disobedience. i am grateful i have a Master that sees past that. He and i have both been imperfect, but my zigs, match His zags....and He and i, Breathe as One.... i can relax in Him...i can be completely free in Him....the only thing that stops the magnitude of my freedom in Him, is me. my inhibitions still impaire me, i/We are working on those.

Ok geez i got real chatty ....not usually my style LOL


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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 6:33:02 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Our Relationship has neither punishments nor rewards.  We are two people who genuinely love each other and have pretty simple agreed-upon roles and responsibilities to each other and to The Relationship.  The Relationship takes priority.  Our roles and responsiblities seem have flow so naturally that truth be told, I really never think about my duties and tasks as being specifically M/s, it's just what I do.  Master treats me with things from time to time but not as a reward for any specific thing I've done.  I cannot imagine a situation where I would disobey or fail to put His ease, comfort, and joy as less than my primary objective. 

However, should I ever do anything even by accident that would cause His disappointment or even anger, I would rather be punished than dismissed.  I would hope He would care enough for me to want to correct any bad behaviour or undesirable trait, than to just throw me away.

We never refer to the administration of pain as 'punishment' as that's not what it is.  For us, He administers pain to me because my suffering stimulates and excites Him and brings Him joy which is part and parcel to my primary objective.  The pain isn't a reward either because then I wouldn't suffer and He wouldn't have as much fun.  This works for us.



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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 6:48:11 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

However, should I ever do anything even by accident that would cause His disappointment or even anger, I would rather be punished than dismissed. I would hope He would care enough for me to want to correct any bad behaviour or undesirable trait, than to just throw me away.

Now THATS whats up...... seriously.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 6:52:56 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline 		Punishment is not fun in my life. Intersting part though, if learned correctly, punishment leads to a reward. There is more to punishment then making the D-type happy or obeying, it also rewards the s-type with a new understanding. This understanding , imo, must go beyond fear of losing one's collar/wedding band ( i have neither) So when punishment comes my way, i know the reward is to help me grow in a very special way.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 6:58:47 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

Punishment can be a confusing concept. With parents, it is revenge for not being able to get one’s kids to do what they want.


It is? Where do you get that sweeping statement from?
 


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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 7:02:44 AM   
Drakontos


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quote:

Punishment is not fun in my life.

zaphira would have to agree with this. Discipline by Master is in no way fun or something to be sought out. Master can be harsh and demanding in his expectations of his property and there are no second chances.
zaphira would like to say though that removal of her collar would be the last step that Master would take in terms of discipline. He does not wish for his property to fail; only to be obedient.

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RE: Reward Versus Punishment - 5/21/2009 7:11:59 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakontos

quote:

Punishment is not fun in my life.

zaphira would have to agree with this. Discipline by Master is in no way fun or something to be sought out. Master can be harsh and demanding in his expectations of his property and there are no second chances.
zaphira would like to say though that removal of her collar would be the last step that Master would take in terms of discipline. He does not wish for his property to fail; only to be obedient.


Zaphira that is understandable. Most in BDSM or even any other form of long term relationship hold value to the collar or/and ring.  When married i was married in my heart, not because of a wedding band. it's a symbol that really only has value to it, for the person wearing it. Death as hard as it was to get through, pushed me through my abandoment issues, steming from my younger years. My goal now is to stand tall again on 2 feet or 2 knees, be it the case, and go through the fears of being totally alone. Sometimes that fear creeps up, and imo the Universe creates the 'playground' for me to face it and release the fear. i not the norm here and accept that, and do understand how you feel. If Mr. Friend would have never spoke to me, when ignoring me, i would have gone through the pain of seperation again, knowing i would stand tall again without running for someone to serve. This for me is more of a spiritual progression then anything. My heart is with Sir without conditions on him, except respect for who i am and aiding to my growth. Very few could walk this walk with me, and not try to remold me. i not sure if this makes sense,,just words, but also carries my heart with these words.

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