RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people...

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beargonewild -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:03:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666 quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Technically it is not a birth defect per se, If abnormalities of cell division occur, a fetus with mosaicism may result. The baby may have both cells with 46 XY chromosomes and cells with 46 XX chromosomes. This condition has been called hermaphroditism (after the greek god Hermes and goddes Aphrodite) and it is one of many causes of intersex. Because both male (46-XY) and female (46-XX) cells exist within the same fetus, both male and female structures develop. Typically, the penis is not completely virilized (hypospadias). One or both testes may not be palpable or they may be palpable, but undescended. Whenever you see an infant with both hypospadias and an undescended testis (cryptorchidism), you must consider the possibility of intersex. Internally, Müllerian structures develop (uterus, oviducts, vagina). Gonadal tissue of both genders is present in various patterns: a testis on one side and an ovary on the other, a testis on one side and an ovo-testis (gonad containing both ovary and testis) on the other, or an ovary on one side and an ovo-testis on the other. source" http://www.meddean.luc.edu/lumen/MedEd/urology/hrmphdt.htm edited to correct info I didn't say I was a hermaphrodite. You don't seem to understand what transsexuality is. Read the bolded areas. Fuck...can't you bloody well read??? Read exactly what that sentence says and maybe you will comprehend or do you need to go back to grade school and learn reading comprehension? And you have no understanding of GLBT history so quit your candy ass bitching and get off your ass and learn. Here let me make it easier for your simple brain to understand: This condition has been called hermaphroditism (note has been meaning past tense) and it is one of many causes of intersex (one of many meaning there are other similar conditions)

rulemylife -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:35:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig And another thought that came to me, wouldn't a Jewish president be suspect when dealing with either Israel or the Arab world, and what if the issue was bombing Israel (again highly unlikely, yet not impossible)? Yet I doubt that anybody would say that a Catholic or Jew should be ineligable (sp?) for the presidency. That is exactly what was said about JFK during his candidacy, that his first loyalty would be to the Vatican and the Pope would be the de facto President. Which only points out how ridiculous the requirement has become. In the last election we saw both McCain's and Obama's citizenship questioned. Does anyone seriously believe that either of these men would have had divided loyalties if in fact it was proven they were not U.S. born?

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:37:47 AM)
Actually, it was that question of JFK & the Pope that brought that particular point to mind

rulemylife -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:44:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nelly33 also, i don't really see how this can be a very big issue... in order for the law to be overturned, a real case where a foreigner has been denied from seeking office must be taken to the supreme court. doubtful this will ever happen. in theory we can argue this point... but it is unlikely to ever see the light of day. edited to nap Then you must have been doing a lot of napping recently to have missed the Republican push to try and get Arnold on the 2012 ticket.

LadyEllen -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:45:42 AM)
dont fight it - Arnold will be President, of that there is no doubt. luckily, the chances of having to bomb Austria are fairly remote after all E

thornhappy -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 7:48:17 AM)
Arnold's been saying that he's tired of government work, and won't be considering it in the future.

Bella1965 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:00:22 AM)
G'morning all: quote: ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666 quote: ORIGINAL: Bella1965 Correction. You were born male, not female. It's not a birth defect. It's a mental disorder. It's called "Gender Dysphoria". Your statement above is contradictory to your profile which states post-op male to female. So clearly, it's not fixed. Your ignorance to the reality of transsexuality is beyond my comprehension. Just because the DSM says it's a mental disorder DOESN'T MAKE IT SO. Homosexuality used to be in there, too. Just as back then, there are efforts being made now to remove transsexuality from the DSM altogether and place it where it belongs: under physical birth defects. People like you are part of the problem. Actually, I understand transsexuals very well, having dated several and researched the subject. I had to become knowledgeable in order to deal with their wildly fluctuating emotional swings, irrational rages, sudden bouts of depression, etc. It is a mental disorder. Also classified as "Gender Identity Disorder" or "GID". It's documented, by many different sources, all current, all reliable. Your inability to accept the truth is your failing, not mine. When you grow up, you'll come to understand your views do not make the world so. Be equally aware, that "transsexuality" is not a word. Yes, I'm a spelling/grammar nazi. I noticed that you didn't address the key points of the post I created. Your obvious contradiction. Your lack of positive input and effort into the cause of insuring equality for your specific minority. Care to rectify those oversights? While I may not be an advocate for these minorities, if legislation were needed/proposed in my state? I would vote in favor balancing the scales. I believe everyone has the right to be happy, even if I do not personally agree with their agendas or do not seek out interactions with said minorities. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others. [:D] Bella

dcnovice -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:05:24 AM)
quote: Be equally aware, that "transsexuality" is not a word. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transexuality

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:25:35 AM)
quote: First, let me say that anyone who didn't have conflict and strife in making a decision to bomb any country isn't someone with the proper temperment to be President. Choosing to bomb another nation 'should' be one of the toughest decisions the POTUS can make. It should only be undertaken after profound care and thoughtful consideration for the consequences with the cost of risk/reward carefully weighed. Ummm, really, REALLY good point, I am going to blame the lack of sleep for missing it. As for the factionalism of the US, I doubt it is more internally balkanised than Russia, yet Russia allows naturalised citizens to become President (though now it seems that the Prime Minister, or whtever Putin's present title is, is the main dude over there). Is Russia more mature as a nation, or are they naive? I can see the reason for the inclusion of the restriction when the Constitution was written (though even then, I feel that the actual danger of foreign take-over was slim to none), there doesn't really seem to be a really solid reason for keeping the restriction. To be fair, there really isn't all that compelling a reason to ditch the restriction either, other than the aforementioned issue of descrimination, though I do not believe that "national origin" is one of the areas covered under the anti-discrimination laws (perhaps someone more familiar with the US laws in this area can clarify that). Even if it were in those laws, I am not sure that those laws would trump the Constitution. What about the idea that restricting the Presidency to natural-born citizens does discriminate against naturalised citizens, thereby making them effectively 2nd-class citizens...any thoughts? And to Rule, LadyE and Thornhappy, its Ahnold, with an "H"[:D]

Aylee -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:30:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Whatever guys, I still think your reasons are farfetched and really kind of ludicrous. Like I said, in Canada we manage without any such restriction, and I believe in the UK as well (perhaps one of our British members might clarify this). Neither France nor Russia has this requirement either. I can understand the reason it was put into your constitution when it was written, I just question its validity today. Being born in a country really in no way insures anybody's loyalty to that country (Quisling, Aryan Nations and the Z.O.G., Timothy McVae, and so on....) Myself I was born in Japan, and lived there through high school, and yet I have no connection or loyalty to Japan as a country, a certain fondness of memory, but no loyalty. I am really just picking one of your comments on this Arpig, mostly so that there is an idea of what I am refering to. The requirement that the POTUS and VPOTUS be natural-born citizens is simialar to England not allowing Prince Phillip to be King of England, even if though he is married to the Queen. Although, not exactly because there is a bunch more rig-a-marole with the whole dynasty thing. So it is not as crazy as you might think. But it does have a certain sense of logic.

dcnovice -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:37:37 AM)
Aylee, you're forgetting that England actually imported the Hanoverians to be monarch when Queen Anne died without an heir. I'm not sure George I even spoke English!

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:41:36 AM)
Well, there is some logic to it, but a bit of a stretch, the two offices are very different. The rules for becoming king/queen of England are discriminatory, and unappoligetically so. Comparing an hereditary position to an elected one is really apples and oranges. Anyway, my UMs are waiting for me, so I must go now, I will check in later

nelly33 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:44:02 AM)
yea, i guess i must've missed that push.

BitaTruble -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 8:59:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig What about the idea that restricting the Presidency to natural-born citizens does discriminate against naturalised citizens, thereby making them effectively 2nd-class citizens...any thoughts? No, and it's because of the oath that such a citizen must take to even become naturalized. I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. They willingingly agree to support the Constitution which bars them from running for V/POTUS. Were I naturalized rather than natural born, I can't imagine that I would even entertain the idea of wanting to run for such office and violate the oath which I took to become a citizen in the first place. Keeping to my word, sticking with the oath I made.. that's what would make me a first class citizen. Ask not what your country can do for you and all that ... naturalized citizens seem to have a better grasp of that concept than many of us who were born here. Like I said, we've still got a lot of growing up to do as a people. edited to fix quoting yet again .. [8\|]

DomImus -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 9:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig On to DomImus...That arguement is one I had not thought of. Perhaps tradition is a good reason to leave things the way they are, however, in light of the original topic of this thread, I don't think it really is valid...I mean the problem with Prop 8 passing is that a lot of people like the rules on marriage the way they are and don't want it to change, yet most of the posters here seem to fully support the idea that it should change. Is not Article II (clause whatever....sorry don't feel like looking it up) in fact discriminatory in nature? If not, why not? And if it is, why then should this particular case of discrimination be allowed when others are not? Is not the whole gist of this thread and the basic drive behind it the removal of discriminatory laws? The catch is that Prop 8 violates a part of the Constitution - the 14th amendment, specifically. At least it does from my perspective. The clause that precludes those not having been born here from holding the office of President is written into the Constitution... and therefore cannot be found unconstitutional. You can't go to the Supreme Court and ask then to find the Constitution as it is worded to be unconstitutional.

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 10:36:51 AM)
quote: They willingingly agree to support the Constitution which bars them from running for V/POTUS. Another really good point from you Bita (as usual). It does seem reasonable to say that they agreed to this restriction, and therefore they are not 2nd class citizens. One could argue that they really had no choice but to agree, but surely a citizenship oath is one of the most solemn, and should not be lightly taken, so I don't really think that would be a fair arguement. However, that does not really address the question of whether it is discriminatory, and why in this case discrimination should be allowed. Somewhere earlier in this thread, this whole side issue was originally brought up as a justification, of sorts, for discrimination, and I think that may be somewhat of a slippery slope, I mean if one can justify discriminating against gay marriage by pointing out that the rules for the Presidency are discrimnatory, then why not use that as a justification (however slim) for any other form of discrimination. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I agree with both Bita (from way earlier in the thread) and DomImus that Prop 8 does appear to violate the 14th amendment. As to challenging Article II, I pointed out a few pages back how this could not be done through SCOTUS, as a part of the Constitution by definition cannot be unconstitutional, so I agree wholeheartedly with that point. In the process of reading up a bit more on the subject, I came a cross an article on the presidential line of succession, and noticed something. After the Veep comes the Speaker of the House, and the only requirement, citizenship-wise, for election to that position is that one be a citizen for at least 7 years. Therefore, it seems to be possible for a naturalised citizen to indeed become POTUS. Is this how it works, or would they just skip over anybody who did not meet the presidential qualifications and move on to the next person on the list?

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 11:14:30 AM)
quote: In the process of reading up a bit more on the subject, I came a cross an article on the presidential line of succession, and noticed something. After the Veep comes the Speaker of the House, and the only requirement, citizenship-wise, for election to that position is that one be a citizen for at least 7 years. Therefore, it seems to be possible for a naturalised citizen to indeed become POTUS. Is this how it works, or would they just skip over anybody who did not meet the presidential qualifications and move on to the next person on the list? Never mind, I found the answer on another site. The naturalised citizen would indeed be skipped over. http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/PubID.123/pub_detail.asp

Aynne88 -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 11:33:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 What homosexuals really want is the true definition of "seperate but equal". Yep, and the millions of non-gay people who support gay marriage count for fuck all, of course [8\|] . "Separate but equal", I ask you... what a load of bollocks [sm=rofl.gif] . Can a gay man marry a woman, yes or no? Can a lesbian marry a man, yes or no? Are they seeking special privilege to marry the same sex, yes or no? Face the facts, homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals, but seek special rights that are different than what heterosexuals are granted...What would YOU call it? The only response I can even think of to even justify a response to this is, "You just made my brain hurt." No, literally, I read this and I could actually FEEL my brain pulsing and trying to comprehend the utter stupidity of this overall statement. It gave up and went back to thinking again. Bit late, but that I think is definitely in the top ten fuck all stupid statements ever made on here. Your brain was pulsing BK? Mine bled I think. Jesus Christ.

GreedyTop -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 11:35:08 AM)
~FR~ quote: I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. what if the naturalised citizen doesn't believe in God...? just sayin' LOL (ok, so I'm stirring the pot, here....)

Arpig -> RE: Prop 8 ruling makes me wanna kill people... (5/30/2009 11:47:02 AM)
Well greedy, in that case they are obviously godless commie pinkos, and are thus unamerican and therefore ineligable for everything anyway

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