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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 3:39:02 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I only like being a doormat on the days he wears his golf cleats.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 3:47:38 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmelineRose
In YOUR opinion when does someone cross from being a "legitimate" (in your eyes) slave into being "a doormat".


A consensual slave should be a doormat, but for a particular Keeper.

Being easily stepped on in general is no way to go about in the world, however. Raging "people pleaser" or self esteem complexes give rise to a hollow submission in people—a submission defined by passive manipulative personality traits (the inverted tyrant) or situational negativity (the victim), or a hybrid of both. While the victim types are pliable enough due to low self esteem or negative circumstances, the quality of their submission can be dubious as it is not actualized or exlusive toward a particular person or situation. It has in short become a survival tactic, or in more extreme cases, a parasitic strategy. I sometimes suspect this is what people are referring to when they speak of "doormat" negatively.


(in reply to EmelineRose)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 3:53:13 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		"doormat" is yet another of those symantically empty words used in BDSM-land. I'm putting that one right there in the box by the door that already holds, "topping from the bottom" and "service top". So I'm guessing someone becomes a "doormat" when the person doing the speaking doesn't like them.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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(in reply to EmelineRose)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 4:14:56 PM   
Eleutherios


Posts: 85
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Houston, Tx
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmelineRose

I've always heard quite a bit of discussion in this culture about "doormats" and in particular submissives or slaves saying they refuse to be one, and Dominants articulating that they don't want one, but seeing all these comments on profiles just lately has set me thinking about it again....so....

In YOUR opinion when does someone cross from being a "legitimate" (in your eyes) submissive or slave into being "a doormat".

I'm sure this could get kind of interesting!  Thanks in advance.



I'm inclined to think the difference is the willingness to sacrifice fulfillment. A doormat has little or no regard for them selves and submits because they don't think they're capable of anything else.

Personally, I've only encountered a few that meet that description.


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~
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
—Thomas Jefferson—
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 4:18:48 PM   
Eleutherios


Posts: 85
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Houston, Tx
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly
I separate the two depending upon how they identity themselves. People who identity as doormats give because they just can't say no. People who identity as submissives give because they want to give. Doormats feel used where the submissive feels happy in being used.


Nicely said.


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~
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
—Thomas Jefferson—
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 4:48:44 PM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

"doormat" is yet another of those symantically empty words used in BDSM-land. I'm putting that one right there in the box by the door that already holds, "topping from the bottom" and "service top". So I'm guessing someone becomes a "doormat" when the person doing the speaking doesn't like them.


Thank you Leadership for saying this. The put downs on the board towards people who don't think the same as they do happens daily. It sure gets boring. One day, i hope to express myself as eloquently as you did in your reply.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 5:39:34 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDolly
I separate the two depending upon how they identity themselves. People who identity as doormats give because they just can't say no. People who identity as submissives give because they want to give. Doormats feel used where the submissive feels happy in being used.


i agree totally.  i used to be a doormat and everyone used me, then i learned self-esteem and how to have healthy boundaries.  Now i only let Sir cross my boundaries, or W/whoever He allows to, but N/no O/one else.  When i was a doormat, i was frustrated and angry at how people would take advantage of me.  Now, as Sir's submissive, i am happy & fulfilled doing His wishes.  There's a world of difference. 

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

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(in reply to MistressDolly)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 5:43:37 PM   
Delphinus


Posts: 146
Joined: 11/26/2008
Status: offline 		I have only ever viewed the term "doormat" as a way for women to display their abrasiveness in a profile when writing in really big font "I am not a doormat." 

No matter the word used, if someone is getting what they want out of a relationship, even if it's to get nothing, then more power to them.  (Get it?  More power to them?  To the slave?  Because a slave has no....oh, never mind.) 

Each of us finds fulfillment in our own way.  I tend to shy away from people who shout from the rooftops how they are so different from how they perceive others to be because really....they're just not. 

(in reply to EmelineRose)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 6:17:17 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I am guessing I've always been a doormat for the right man but then again I've never had some kind of aversion to being one. I don't see it as a negative connotation unless you're a doormat for everything and everyone.

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 6:34:04 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Traditionally a doormat is considered to be someone without any healthy boundaries who will submit to anyone and allow themselves to be harmed.


Traditionally?  Which one?  Old guard, new guard, leather, kink gorean...?  Seriously traditionally?
 
the.dark.
In the ancient ways...the doormat ceremony ....very traditional, and mystic, to boot. (lots of incense and singing, and orgies etc)

~tulip of the old ways

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 6:59:33 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmelineRose

I've always heard quite a bit of discussion in this culture about "doormats" and in particular submissives or slaves saying they refuse to be one, and Dominants articulating that they don't want one, but seeing all these comments on profiles just lately has set me thinking about it again....so....

In YOUR opinion when does someone cross from being a "legitimate" (in your eyes) submissive or slave into being "a doormat".

I'm sure this could get kind of interesting!  Thanks in advance.

Well, I could ask you to define doormat so that I would know exactly what you are referring to, but I think I will refrain

I don't see people as doormats. Period. I see some who need to please to the point that it overrides their own natural defenses; I see some who want to please to the point that it overrides their own natural defenses; I see some who just don't care one way or another how others view them or their actions; I see some who care too much about what others think about them and I see ALOT who are mature adults but act like idiotic adolescents with not a single lick of common sense simply because they are so desperate to belong to someone/anyone.

But, I don't see any of these as being 'doormats'. They are simply different from me and from how I would handle myself and situations.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/27/2009 8:21:05 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I associate the term doormat with something that is not valued and whose needs are not getting met/aren't really even amongst the other's considerations. 
  Davan

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(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)
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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 7:23:20 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmelineRose

I've always heard quite a bit of discussion in this culture about "doormats" and in particular submissives or slaves saying they refuse to be one, and Dominants articulating that they don't want one, but seeing all these comments on profiles just lately has set me thinking about it again....so....

In YOUR opinion when does someone cross from being a "legitimate" (in your eyes) submissive or slave into being "a doormat".

I'm sure this could get kind of interesting!  Thanks in advance.


I think a person becomes what they want to be. I think words like doormat are use to insult another person, or to make them feel less. It is just a word to me and it does not bother or affect me.  I for the life of me cannot think of one single person involved in a relationship as being a doormat in the way people describe it. Why one person does what they do or don't is known by that person, hence shows they are using their mind. Does the mind resemble a healthy perspective? That is always debatable. We do not know what their goal is or what they seek.

Many people have low self-esteem and little sense of worth, and they display it in many ways. Learning to say no is a lesson we all learn in life, is that such a bad thing? I have never met a person who knew how to from the beginning, they had to learn to honor themselves. It is part of growth as a human. A doormat is what you wish to make it. To me it is neurtral, and i can apply it when i see fit.

Don't worry about being a doormat, if you become one you always have to right to move yourself to another door. Only you can permit yourself to be used or not and to stand tall in your choice. Every word thrown out to make a person feel lesser then they are is just a manipulation. A doormat can accept it or curl up and trip someone:) we arent helpless.

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to EmelineRose)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 7:27:35 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I'd say a doormat is someone whose feelings aren't being considered and has stopped trying to make people consider them. If that gives them jollies, rock on, but i prefer someone with more self esteem. I put a lot of work into making sure my girl isn't anyone's doormat.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 7:38:15 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		There is no such thing as a 'doormat' in bdsm. That term only exists in certain people's perceptions. Generally speaking the ones who won't see the ones who will as 'doormats'.

(in reply to EmelineRose)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 8:03:36 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		There's also been occasional good discussion about the presumption that the term "doormat" should even carry negative connotations at all. It only has them because subs/Dom(me)s who prefer lesser levels of power exchange find certain things as too sacrosanct to be surrendered.

The better translation of your question is when, as a sub/slave, you stop being treated as you've expected or signed up for. And the answer to that should be obvious (barring personal denial).

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 8:04:25 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

There is no such thing as a 'doormat' in bdsm. That term only exists in certain people's perceptions. Generally speaking the ones who won't see the ones who will as 'doormats'.


That is interesting to note. Odd thing is I never really heard people calling people doormat when i was living in the vanilla world which was 55 years. The last couple years stepping into BDSM is when i have heard it. Found it odd, so looking for understanding to why. Thanks DomImus

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 8:09:41 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

I only like being a doormat on the days he wears his golf cleats.




Love it. 


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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 2:18:28 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmelineRose

In YOUR opinion when does someone cross from being a "legitimate" (in your eyes) submissive or slave into being "a doormat".



When you stop caring about having your needs met.

It doesn't matter how much you want to serve - you still have needs to be met.

To illustrate: an emotional person who makes decisions based on feelings can never have their needs met by someone who is unwilling to consider that person's emotions and sticks rigidly to dealing with this person based on facts and method. Where you need your emotions to be heard yet allow someone to deal with you through critical analysis and logic then I'd suggest you've become a doormat and forgotten about what matters to you.

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RE: When does one stop being a sub/slave and start bein... - 5/28/2009 2:44:59 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		i suppose by peoples definitions here, i have been a doormat - in working hard to accept big changes in the relationship and absorbing them best i could.  i upheld my end of the bargain and continued to submit to the man i called Master and tried to rise to each occasion to the best of my ability as his slave - if that makes me a doormat, then fine.

personally i just saw it as me focusing on the man i was submissive to -

i find it a little odd frankly to use a phrase derogatively toward the other half of the D/s Ms equation - when it is total submission, absolute trust and complete acceptance most Dominants covet - and again, if that makes us doormats then sobeit.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 40
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