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LadyEllen -> RE: Israel says screw you US (6/10/2009 6:07:15 AM)
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I'm sorry Aphotic but I shall always strive to call it as I see it, without fear or favour - and in my experience at least, so do most of the posters here. That we will disagree on how we see it exactly is more or less a given of human social experience, yet for the most part we can disagree in a mature way, even when the subject matter at hand is contentious and divisive and passions get heated.
What you have demonstrated in your last few posts is quite frankly a ridiculously childish attitude to the subject matter (and a misunderstanding of the subject matter) and to those with whom you disagree. And for you to pointedly accuse CM as a whole of anti-semitism and to include the Moderators in that merely confirms that view, especially when you fail to provide any evidence for your opinion.
No one here, and I mean no one, is under any illusion about the suffering of the Jewish people over the centuries and particularly that most vile persecution in the last, and no one here has any sympathies that would endorse such persecution. In fact, if you had been here longer you should have seen on several occasions what happens when from time to time some nazi nutjob comes here and starts his or her nonsense. Its something I personally enjoy a great deal when it happens because everyone joins in with the ridicule of said nutjob until the Moderators kick him or her out and delete the thread. If no one else, you ought to make a public apology to the Moderators on this matter.
However that is not to say that I (or anyone else) is going to treat the state of Israel nor its majority population with kid gloves. Rather I shall call it as I see it there too, without fear or favour and holding it and them to the same standards as I would any other nation. There are no free passes around here and there is no special status that exempts anyone from scrutiny; in fact to go down such a path is to validate such notions as lead to abusers and victims, in ideas of some being inherently superior to others such that their actions must never be questioned.
All that being said though, the thread is about international relations between Israel and the US and as you point out this is not determined by anti-semitism or the lack thereof. But neither should it be determined by the antithesis of anti-semitism either - it should be an international pact that brings benefits to each side - not a mutual endorsement still less a love affair with a people or a state, just as such pacts are wherever else they are found. The misunderstanding perhaps is concerning this aspect, because for too long US/Israel relations have been more of a love affair than anything else, so that when one lover comments on the other as now, the other sees it as deeply hurtful and a personal attack - not because it necessarily is, but because such an approach will undermine the point being made and prompt reconciliation with the comment being forgotten.
To confuse international relations for love affairs is regrettable. But more regrettable is that manipulation in this way can be seen to be a valid means to undermine valid comments and worse to shut down any attempt at progress by confusing them for general attacks on a population for whom many feel not a little sympathy. To replicate such a process here in a discussion of the scenario by accusations of anti-semitism against anyone who critiques the position of the Israeli government in it all, is also deeply regrettable and paradoxically (and dangerously) merely supports the comment made.
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