Apparently, EITs actually worked...

Apparently, EITs actually worked... (Full Version)

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Crush -> Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 9:51:57 PM)
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/intel-firestorm-gop-reveals-briefing-info-2009-06-04.html

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:01:41 PM)
As if it was ever really in doubt.

Kirata -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:10:58 PM)
I suspect the most likely scenario is, a fellow who doesn't know anything will tell you what you want to hear, and a fellow who does know something will tell you what you want to hear. K.

TheHeretic -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:11:22 PM)
Oh my. The Democrats mentioned in the article certainly had their talking point spin ready, didn't they? They just don't want to talk about this subject at all.

Musicmystery -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:19:07 PM)
Wait a second. Congress members revealed classified information, and you guys are cool with that. Really.

CruelNUnsual -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:23:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Wait a second. Congress members revealed classified information, and you guys are cool with that. Really. No, SOME Congress members CLAIM that information was classified, so that they dont have to respond to it. Edit: In fact they dont even claim it was classified information, just that they wouldnt discuss something presented behind closed doors. It was a closed hearing, but the article doesnt say that it was closed because anything was classified, merely that the Dems insisted on it because they didnt know whether it would hurt or help them.

Kirata -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:27:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Wait a second. Congress members revealed classified information, and you guys are cool with that. Really. Hell, the public has been told many times that EIT produced actionable intelligence. The only thing that's apparently "classified information" here is the fact that those who denied it were either ignorant or lying to us. K.

Musicmystery -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:30:54 PM)
Kinda makes a mockery out of classifying information. But then, the game makes less sense to me with each passing year.

TheHeretic -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:34:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Wait a second. Congress members revealed classified information, and you guys are cool with that. Really. The United States used waterboarding on three worst case individuals, and Democrats helped blow that up into the defining vision of America, for no better reason to score points on George W. Bush. Never mind that every day it led the news here, it made things more dangerous for our troops there. Never mind that it added to the tensions and hostility our new President is trying to deal with today. You guys were cool with that. So yeah. Fuckit. I'm on board.

slvemike4u -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:38:06 PM)
Not that I'm willing to concede this point,but when did whether or not it worked become the end all and be all of the conversation. There is still the question of whether or not we should be doing it... In my mind we shouldn't be doing it for moral reasons....ours not theirs And one other point.....can anyone say whether any information gleaned couldn't have been obtained through other methods?

Musicmystery -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:46:57 PM)
quote: The United States used waterboarding on three worst case individuals, and Democrats helped blow that up into the defining vision of America, for no better reason to score points on George W. Bush. Never mind that every day it led the news here, it made things more dangerous for our troops there. Never mind that it added to the tensions and hostility our new President is trying to deal with today. You guys were cool with that. So yeah. Fuckit. I'm on board. Whoa. What the fuck are you on about?

Kirata -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:49:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Not that I'm willing to concede this point,but when did whether or not it worked become the end all and be all of the conversation. There is still the question of whether or not we should be doing it... In my mind we shouldn't be doing it for moral reasons....ours not theirs Well I'll call hijack on this. The question of whether or not we should ever have been doing it in the first place is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is the crapola we've been fed that it didn't produce any actionable intelligence, which, if you stop and consider the matter, is a fairly inane argument coming from people who supposedly objected to it on moral grounds, and for whom one would think its effectiveness (or lack of same) would be irrelevant. K.

slvemike4u -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 10:59:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Not that I'm willing to concede this point,but when did whether or not it worked become the end all and be all of the conversation. There is still the question of whether or not we should be doing it... In my mind we shouldn't be doing it for moral reasons....ours not theirs Well I'll call hijack on this. The question of whether or not we should ever have been doing it in the first place is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is the crapola we've been fed that it didn't produce any actionable intelligence, which, if you stop and consider the matter, is a fairly inane argument coming from people who supposedly objected to it on moral grounds, and for whom one would think its effectiveness (or lack of same) would be irrelevant. K. And I call Bullshit on this.If those who advocate torture are intent on moving the argument to whether or not it is effective it is perfectly reasonable for those that oppose it to bring the argument back to where it belongs....namely the right or wrong of it. Expediency is not a justification.

TheHeretic -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:00:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Whoa. What the fuck are you on about? I'm sorry, Muse. Did you miss the entire pop-issue of the US engaging in torture? It was in most of the papers, I think. The biggest Bush-Bash of them all. America Baa-aaad! Was it helpful to our national and security interests to put partisan point-scoring first? So yeah. Some Repubs seem to have publicly discussed their thoughts on a classified briefing. And I'm cool with it. Information that lets people understand that this issue a bit more broadly has come to the public. I happen to see that as more honorable than having a staffer leak it to the press.

Musicmystery -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:06:05 PM)
I got that part. I missed the part about what you actually posted--not to mention that in the future, perhaps you should let me know in advance what stance I've taken on an issue so that it'll make sense to me when you attack it. The sweeping, unsupported scope you'll still have to work on.

Kirata -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:10:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u If those who advocate torture are intent on moving the argument to whether or not it is effective it is perfectly reasonable for those that oppose it to bring the argument back to where it belongs... Hello? I think you're having a bad dream. Neither the topic of this thread nor any of the posts in it are about whether or not we should have used EIT (let alone "advocating" it). K.

DomKen -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:13:42 PM)
In the short term every congressperson who made those claims needs to be removed from congress. In the long term they are all felons and should enjoy their life sentences in prison. But at this point the intelligence needs to be declassified so the public can see who is telling the truth.

slvemike4u -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:18:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u If those who advocate torture are intent on moving the argument to whether or not it is effective it is perfectly reasonable for those that oppose it to bring the argument back to where it belongs... Hello? I think you're having a bad dream. Neither the topic of this thread nor any of the posts in it are about whether or not we should have used EIT (let alone "advocating" it). K. Were you able to type this with a straight face? Releasing this information has one purpose and one purpose only defending the Bush Administrations decision to go down this road........

Kirata -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:30:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Releasing this information has one purpose and one purpose only defending the Bush Administrations decision to go down this road........ I was not aware that I was in the presence of someone who could read minds. Please forgive me. Let's be friends. I can use the money. K.

slvemike4u -> RE: Apparently, EITs actually worked... (6/4/2009 11:33:39 PM)
No thanks........I have some standards.

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