Fantasy vs. Reality...

Fantasy vs. Reality... (Full Version)

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bear372217355 -> Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 3:17:35 PM)
Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature? And if yes.... Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality?

IrishMist -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:04:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bear372217355 Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature? And if yes.... Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality? Because in reality rape is non-consentual, where as in fantasy, the consent has been given ( to a degree ). Personally, I find any forms of non-consensual activity to be abhorrent, whether it is in literature or in RL. Just my own opinion though.

redheadedfire4u -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:21:23 PM)
Fantasy/role play is just that, a scene you have agreed too and therefore consensual. The rape that is not really a rape so to speak, no matter how real you try and make it appear, fundamentally it is not rape. The reality of rape is terrible, soul destroying and often brutal to the degree of death. Though some may choose to use some of the brutality of rape in there scene, I think it would be rare for the sub to end up in hospital broken and damaged? Those who find rape and/or non-consensual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature are usually thinking more along the lines of the fantasy deal not the reality. Very few people would find the idea of being brutalized to the extent of hospitalisation or being killed appealing. Literature that is attempting to be erotic or stimulating tends to go for the more fantasy type rape or forced enslavement, bringing more appeal to the audience than what the reality would allow. Just my opinion Warm smiles to all

truesub4u -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:23:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: ORIGINAL: bear372217355 Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature? And if yes.... Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality? Because in reality rape is non-consentual, where as in fantasy, the consent has been given ( to a degree ). Personally, I find any forms of non-consensual activity to be abhorrent, whether it is in literature or in RL. Just my own opinion though. I agree.. I really don't think fantasy rape is all consentual. When the people invloved have discussed it... agreed... even if it's a later to date spur of the moment. It's still consentual. As far as being kidnapped... non consentual rape.... Lord help the asshole If i'm on the jury... because the Lord will be the only one to be able to help. But I'm prejudice on the subject..... I've had it happen to me. And if they would of just left me alone with him for a mere 5 minutes..... He would of needed God... or met face to face.

bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:26:21 PM)
Just so I don't get verbally assinated. I am not advocating non-consentual acts of violence. I have no fantasies to do so either. I just happend across a story posted by a woman, in which several women were abducted and forced into sexual slavery. All without consent. The story was erotic in nature, although I failed to find it stimulating. It made me wonder why there is a fantasy of such a dispicable act. In my opinion, it is by far the single most ignorant thing a man can do to a woman. One most be the lowest for of life to do such a thing. Actually IrishMist, in many of the stories I have come across, consent is furtherest from the thought. The literature dipicting such fantasies seem to be non-consentual as a rule, but still deemed erotic. Most, but not all, are signed by women. That does not mean that I believe that they are all women writing these. I sure that most are men, merely signing as women for some reason.

IronBear -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bear372217355 Do you find rape and/or non-consentual enslavement erotic or stimulating in literature? And if yes.... Why is it ok in fantasy, but so repugnant in reality? Yes ~ Stimulating. Why? Because in literature, I can read the details dispationately and look at the issue from an accademic view. In reality, including reading case notes and reports, I have a deep anger building and as an empath, I can feel the pain and hurt. I would happily run a secure institution to house sex offenders providing it was run on my rules which would allow victims and their families regular "Therapeutic Sessions" and those who survived have done to them what they did to others....... Sorry it's something I feel strongly about.

bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 4:59:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IronBear Why? Because in literature, I can read the details dispationately and look at the issue from an accademic view. In reality, including reading case notes and reports, I have a deep anger building and as an empath, I can feel the pain and hurt. I would happily run a secure institution to house sex offenders providing it was run on my rules which would allow victims and their families regular "Therapeutic Sessions" and those who survived have done to them what they did to others....... Sorry it's something I feel strongly about. Lmao, that would be a politically incorrect form of rehabilation. But oh so satisfying. Speaking as one who has experienced the effects of rape on a loved one. I would gladly contribute both my time and my money to see such an institute come to be. There lies my confusion on the literature though. Even fantasy up sets me. It's not something I am able to wrap my head around. How can it be stimulating on one hand, but vial on the other (literature only, I understand role play rape scenes are consentual)?

AAkasha -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 5:08:51 PM)
I have some pretty evil fantasies, some involving real people or people I know. They include non consensual things like kidnapping, torture, etc. Nothing extremely brutal, but definately not consensual. That's the point of "fantasy." When I observe my own fantasies, on some level I know it is not real; I am not wishing it to be real. I see it more as "watching a movie" with my lust-object playing a character, if that makes sense. In fantasy, you can also control the fate of your "victim" and in my fantasy world, there's always a happy ending. This is the same way my mind works while viewing fictional things in movies. I can get incredibly turned on seeing my favorite hot actors bound & gagged against their will and love watching them squirm. But I know they are acting. If I see a man in a television news report in bondage, blindfolded, or captive against his will, I want to throw up (literally). Real accounts of actual human suffering are extremely difficult for me to witness. Very good portrayals (read: realistic) of rape, torture or execution also do NOT arouse me. A very good documentary or fictionalization of a real life man being executed is something I change the channel from. However, campy, sci-fi or "obviously fictionalized" executions with a hot male character really flip my switch. Akasha

mnottertail -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 5:35:35 PM)
I have the fantasy of winning the estimated $250M lottery, I would send you all postcards from the personal island I own in my mind, some of you motherfuckers will get them postage due......... But soft, what light from yonder window breaks? How would you go into the store and get toilet paper? Give me the whole fuckin' row......I never want to worry about it again...... All the people I couldn't stand in high school would be begging me for money as well as my ne'er do well relatives......... There is a bunch of people I could see hiring guys out to engage in 'earnest' conversation......... Then you got the problem if you buy 5 quick picks you get your money and say why in the hell did I waste that 4 bucks for? Who do I gotta kill tonight? Who is gonna kidnap my kids? Fanasty in juxtaposition with reality... Some are clearly doable and some should remain fantasy......... There are unintended consequences and there is ALWAYS an incongruence in two souls psyche............. Control, forethought and hit the high points....... Just like they say in the beer commercials, "It don't get any better than this..........." LOL, Ron

bear372217355 -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 5:39:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I have the fantasy of winning the estimated $250M lottery, I would send you all postcards from the personal island I own in my mind, some of you motherfuckers will get them postage due......... But soft, what light from yonder window breaks? How would you go into the store and get toilet paper? Give me the whole fuckin' row......I never want to worry about it again...... All the people I couldn't stand in high school would be begging me for money as well as my ne'er do well relatives......... There is a bunch of people I could see hiring guys out to engage in 'earnest' conversation......... Then you got the problem if you buy 5 quick picks you get your money and say why in the hell did I waste that 4 bucks for? Who do I gotta kill tonight? Who is gonna kidnap my kids? Fanasty in juxtaposition with reality... Some are clearly doable and some should remain fantasy......... There are unintended consequences and there is ALWAYS an incongruence in two souls psyche............. Control, forethought and hit the high points....... Just like they say in the beer commercials, "It don't get any better than this..........." LOL, Ron uuummmmmm, ooooooooooooooooooo....k Thanx for the imput,,,I think

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:11:17 PM)
Because no one is forcing you to do it in your fantasy.

softandshy -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:26:37 PM)
Why might some people find the fantasy of rape stimulating? Rape is not about sex, it's about power. Take your question one step further and ask why do some people enjoy snuff fantasies? It is taking onto oneself the arguably ultimate power. If people were not interested in power or it's loss, we'd never have left the primordial ooze (or at least our caves). ~smiling~ There would certainly not be a CollarMe.com. Power is necessary. The eb and flow of power are motivational in the development of most species. Wolf developed the power to hunt in order to feed itself. Deer developed the ability to warn the herd of predators so that enough would survive to continue. As power is so elemental to our natures, it can be extremely seductive (there is even a very peculiar power in giving another person exactly what he or she wants, in surrendering control). So why not enjoy the real thing? Because a person can walk away from a piece of literature he or she finds offensive, even when he or she has already read half of it. Therein lies the consent, and as Aakasha said, there is usually a happy ending. In play rape there can be a strong sense of power or powerlessness, both of which can be heavy stimulants, but it exists along with an equally strong trust. That trust is based on the idea that real, lasting damage will be avoided by both parties. No such confidence exists in actual rape; therefore, the psychological damage of rape often lasts far longer than the physical damage. There is no assurance of safety or survival, no assurance that it will not all happen again, and if by some chance the body of the victim responds with arousal, there is shame (as opposed to the possible thrill involved in controlled humiliation since a rapist seeks power but lacks true control). Real rape is so extreme a quest for power that it is contrary to development of either individuals or the species. That is, anyway, more or less how rape was explained to me when I asked why. It helped to see things in a broader sense because as a survivor the personal why is not a question most people ever get a satisfactory answer to.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:41:09 PM)
I've never understood this statement, and have always thought it's not only incorrect but also very dangerous. It sounds like the kind of thing therapists preach. But it can't be true. Rape is about sex AND power. It's about sex because it involves a sex act. That's the definition. quote: ORIGINAL: softandshy Rape is not about sex, it's about power.

IronBear -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:47:11 PM)
I think you will find that especially with serial rapists, they are uable to get an errection expept when committing rape. It could be argued that the domination of an unwilling person generates the power which in turn is an aphrodisiac.. I see the two being intertwined and dependent on each other. The rapist feeding off the power of being in complete control of the victim and the fear and humiliation generated by the "enslavement". I believe that when rape victims are killed after, it is often enough not to hide the identity of the rapist but the huge downside after the rape as after this there is nothing left to do.... However this will vary from rapist to rapist.

perverseangelic -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:49:48 PM)
My fantasies are just plain evil. They are non-consensual, they are unsafe, they are immoral. They are, in short, -wrong-. However, they're things that get me hot. For me, it's safe because it's fantasy. I don't buy into the "slippery slope desensition" argument in this case. I think that individuals -should- be able to differentiate fantasy from reality, and that if someone acts in an immoral way it is -not- the fault of the fantasy. I don't believe, either, that such fantasies pave the way for action. Again, if someone feels compelled to act on a story, there are more problems there than the fact that he/she read a story with vile acts.

softandshy -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:55:02 PM)
True enough. There is sex involved in rape. I believe, however, that the primary goal is to use sex as a tool to absorb the power of another. I am a rape survivor, but I was forced to have regular social contact with a number of my rapists. From what I could see, most of them had fairly "normal" sexual activity in their lives. It was in reaction to their own anger/fears/etc. that they raped. They needed the control or power in their everyday lives, but lacking it, went looking to take it from others.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 6:59:15 PM)
First, I'm very sorry about your experience. I agree that rape is about power. I don't think anyone could enjoy rape unless they enjoyed the power to penetrate someone against their will. (Put it this way: how many real rapists--I mean of the criminal kind--would enjoy raping a willing victim? Not many, I don't think.) But it's not ONLY about power. You put it well: it's about using sex as a way to exert power. There are plenty of ways to exert power that don't involve rape.

softandshy -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 7:12:10 PM)
Hmmm. Thank you. I am lucky though. By now I've realized that at the least my experiences and my reactions to them have made me who I am, not perfect, but a pretty decent human being. I am glad enough to know how unlike them I am. Your last statement has brought up other questions for me. I wonder how often rapists do use other ways to exert/absorb power in other aspects of their lives? How subtle or severe would that kind of behavior be? Does it make a difference in the frequency of rape or the degree of violence involved? Wandering off to ponder.

candystripper -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 7:30:49 PM)
i have an erotic story about kidnap amd seduction/rape on my home page. As i wrote it, it never occured to me any woman would want to experience this in real life. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: Fantasy vs. Reality... (2/10/2006 7:37:27 PM)
quote: I think you will find that especially with serial rapists, they are uable to get an errection expept when committing rape. It could be argued that the domination of an unwilling person generates the power which in turn is an aphrodisiac.. I see the two being intertwined and dependent on each other. The rapist feeding off the power of being in complete control of the victim and the fear and humiliation generated by the "enslavement". I believe that when rape victims are killed after, it is often enough not to hide the identity of the rapist but the huge downside after the rape as after this there is nothing left to do.... However this will vary from rapist to rapist. IronBear One of my fav movies is "Copycat" with Sigorney Weaver. But at the same time, i would give rapists the death penalty. One is a scary movie; the other is a form of cannabalism camdystripper

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