RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C.

RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (Full Version)

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ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 11:00:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY panda, Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I generally respect you, and your point of view. But just occasionally, it seems like you slide over into the "very emotional" side of things, and forget some of the nuances... Well, if that's the way it seems, it's only because i do. I'm the first to admit it. It's a definite weakness of mine, and I have no defense other than to say that political discussions go to the very core of my sense of morality. A lot of things that have taken place over the last 8 years have left me outraged, and it's difficult for me not to feel personal anger towards the political leaders who committed these acts, and the fellow citizens who made it possible. I fight back against that every time I post, and sometimes it comes through in spite of it. Sorry. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY but you always seem to back up and put more thought into it - or at least take the time to more fully explain your point of view. I find that refreshing from someone on "the other side" of the political spectrum. And pretty rare, too. Well, thanks. I don't think it's so much that I moderate my positions, but rather that when i shoot someone in the gut, I feel a moral obligation to explain to them why i did it. It's only fair. It may not change anyone's mind, but people at least have the right to know why you're attacking something they believe in. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY Your clarification about "christian terrorists" not being an attack on Christianity is good, and I understand your point. I'd just say that whenever you add a religious qualifier in front of the word "terrorists", you are likely to be seen as condemning the entire religion. Yeah, I know. I say with a sigh. I understand why some would see it that way, but then again, I'm not inclined to pull punches and play nice with the other side's feelings in a forum where I rarely (if ever) see the same courtesy from the other side. Again, this is a forum where my political beliefs are compared to those of Adolph Hitler because I'm a liberal and he used the word "socialist" in the name of his party, and where liberals are routinely associated with Pol Pot and various other communist nutjobs because communists are supposedly leftwingers. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. C'est la vie. When in Rome. quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY It's a truism that the left constantly points out when the term "Muslim terrorist" is used, and I just wanted to point that out in this case. Firm Oh, I agree. The knees jerk just as hard from the left as they do from the right, just in a different direction. When i see it from a conservative, I chortle and shake my head, and when i see it from a liberal I shake my head and sigh sadly. Neither side has the corner on bias and hypocrisy. Good analysis, by the way. I often disagree quite strongly with you, but seldom lose sight of how much respect I have for the way you fight your position. I wish a little of that would rub off on some of your colleagues, but you can't ask pigs to grow wings. Well, actually, you can, but you can't expect them to comply.

kdsub -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 11:07:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Did anyone read the chapters of his book?... It will quickly clear up the " Is he a Christian" mystery. No reason to debate something that is false. Butch I read the first two, all I could stomach, he's a christian. He associated with christian identity leaders throughout his life and what others had to say about him makes it clear that those close to him considered him a christian. Oh come on...here is an example...does this sound like he is a Christian? The treasure of treasures is Abraham whom Yahweh “loves above all others.” We are told that Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sari (Sarah), who also is his half-sister, journeyed to prosperous Egypt looking for loot. There, Abraham arranges an assignation between his sister and the Pharaoh. Yahweh, omnipresent, catches them en flagrante delicto. The Pharaoh, unaware he has committed adultery, presents Abe and Sari with cattle, servants, silver and gold “and Abraham was very rich.” But, JEHOVAH is a jealous god and WRATHFUL (Gen.12); NOT at the pimp Abraham whom he loves above all others; NOT at the hustler Sari. He's furious with the duped gentile, Pharaoh, and visits a plague upon Egypt (Spielbergism). Many years later (Gen. 20) in a repeat scenario Sarah, then 92-years old, hustles Pharaoh Ambimilech. God said to Ambimilech: “behold thou art but a dead man... for she is a man's wife!” Real history records JEWS were expelled from Egypt for treason and for transmitting the plague I could post many more...but like you i could not stand reading ... Butch

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 11:28:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh come on...here is an example...does this sound like he is a Christian? The treasure of treasures is Abraham whom Yahweh “loves above all others.” We are told that Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sari (Sarah), who also is his half-sister, journeyed to prosperous Egypt looking for loot. There, Abraham arranges an assignation between his sister and the Pharaoh. Yahweh, omnipresent, catches them en flagrante delicto. The Pharaoh, unaware he has committed adultery, presents Abe and Sari with cattle, servants, silver and gold “and Abraham was very rich.” But, JEHOVAH is a jealous god and WRATHFUL (Gen.12); NOT at the pimp Abraham whom he loves above all others; NOT at the hustler Sari. He's furious with the duped gentile, Pharaoh, and visits a plague upon Egypt (Spielbergism). Many years later (Gen. 20) in a repeat scenario Sarah, then 92-years old, hustles Pharaoh Ambimilech. God said to Ambimilech: “behold thou art but a dead man... for she is a man's wife!” Real history records JEWS were expelled from Egypt for treason and for transmitting the plague It sure does. A crazy christian, yes, but he certainly sounds like a christian to me.

DomKen -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 11:29:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Did anyone read the chapters of his book?... It will quickly clear up the " Is he a Christian" mystery. No reason to debate something that is false. Butch I read the first two, all I could stomach, he's a christian. He associated with christian identity leaders throughout his life and what others had to say about him makes it clear that those close to him considered him a christian. Oh come on...here is an example...does this sound like he is a Christian? The treasure of treasures is Abraham whom Yahweh “loves above all others.” We are told that Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sari (Sarah), who also is his half-sister, journeyed to prosperous Egypt looking for loot. There, Abraham arranges an assignation between his sister and the Pharaoh. Yahweh, omnipresent, catches them en flagrante delicto. The Pharaoh, unaware he has committed adultery, presents Abe and Sari with cattle, servants, silver and gold “and Abraham was very rich.” But, JEHOVAH is a jealous god and WRATHFUL (Gen.12); NOT at the pimp Abraham whom he loves above all others; NOT at the hustler Sari. He's furious with the duped gentile, Pharaoh, and visits a plague upon Egypt (Spielbergism). Many years later (Gen. 20) in a repeat scenario Sarah, then 92-years old, hustles Pharaoh Ambimilech. God said to Ambimilech: “behold thou art but a dead man... for she is a man's wife!” Real history records JEWS were expelled from Egypt for treason and for transmitting the plague I could post many more...but like you i could not stand reading ... Butch You're using the fact he repeated an anti semitic lie as proof he wasn't christian? You've really got to be kidding me. I assume you will also claim every other spreader of variants of the blood libel isn't a christian either? Just one question do you have any idea what the christian identity movement believes?

sirsholly -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 11:41:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh come on...here is an example...does this sound like he is a Christian? The treasure of treasures is Abraham whom Yahweh “loves above all others.” We are told that Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sari (Sarah), who also is his half-sister, journeyed to prosperous Egypt looking for loot. There, Abraham arranges an assignation between his sister and the Pharaoh. Yahweh, omnipresent, catches them en flagrante delicto. The Pharaoh, unaware he has committed adultery, presents Abe and Sari with cattle, servants, silver and gold “and Abraham was very rich.” But, JEHOVAH is a jealous god and WRATHFUL (Gen.12); NOT at the pimp Abraham whom he loves above all others; NOT at the hustler Sari. He's furious with the duped gentile, Pharaoh, and visits a plague upon Egypt (Spielbergism). Many years later (Gen. 20) in a repeat scenario Sarah, then 92-years old, hustles Pharaoh Ambimilech. God said to Ambimilech: “behold thou art but a dead man... for she is a man's wife!” Real history records JEWS were expelled from Egypt for treason and for transmitting the plague It sure does. A crazy christian, yes, but he certainly sounds like a christian to me. If Christianity is the teaching/following of Jesus Christ, why are you quoting from the Old Testament? Just wondering...[sm=dunno.gif]

Jack45 -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 12:11:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub He is an isolated... mentally tortured… murderous sociopath…nothing more. Why must we always feel it is necessary to classify a murderous nutcase to a group? I agree. It was reported yesterday that the Feds cut his social security check in half and he was having a very bad time on account of that. That probably drove him over the brink. Guy was almost 90 years old for God's sake and to have your SS check that you depend on to just exist cut in half? Good lord. So the group that may be responsible for this nut going into action was the G.

sirsholly -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 12:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jack45 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub He is an isolated... mentally tortured… murderous sociopath…nothing more. Why must we always feel it is necessary to classify a murderous nutcase to a group? I agree. It was reported yesterday that the Feds cut his social security check in half and he was having a very bad time on account of that. That probably drove him over the brink. Guy was almost 90 years old for God's sake and to have your SS check that you depend on to just exist cut in half? Good lord. So the group that may be responsible for this nut going into action was the G. OH PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You might (might!!) be able to make that statement if he did not have such an extensive history of overt hatred for all things/races different from him. I do not give a dead rats ass how old he was or what happened to his social security check...and i bet you the family of the guard he killed feels the same. So fucking sick of blaming the government for shit like this. HE is responsible for his actions....no one else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lronitulstahp -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 12:43:31 PM)
the quiet one has spoken.........[sm=applause.gif]

FirmhandKY -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 12:47:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly HE is responsible for his actions....no one else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hard to argue with this statement. Even if we have a whole thread of people trying to do so. Firm

lronitulstahp -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 12:55:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly HE is responsible for his actions....no one else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hard to argue with this statement. Even if we have a whole thread of people trying to do so. Firm You weren't there Firm, how do you know???? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qAkEA-H_zE ~geraldine jones

kdsub -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 2:32:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You're using the fact he repeated an anti semitic lie as proof he wasn't christian? You've really got to be kidding me. I assume you will also claim every other spreader of variants of the blood libel isn't a christian either? Just one question do you have any idea what the christian identity movement believes? So Abraham is not part of the Christian Religion?... How about this one then "The Big Lie technique, employed by Paul to create the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, also was used to create the HOLOCAUST RELIGION ... CHRISTIANITY AND THE HOLOCAUST are HOAXES. "Christianity" destroyed Roman Civilization. The "Holocaust" Religion is destroying Western Civilization." Or maybe this quote "As duped Aryan sheep begin to understand the 'Holocaust' they also begin to better understand Christianity. Both have similar origins. Both have identical objectives.... The New Testament was written in Greek. Paul - who believed the World was flat, that Joshua made the sun stand still, and Jehovah spoke from a burning bush -- wrote one-third of it, perhaps more. The events described in the 24 Books are often contradictory, fail the time-line, defy both archaeology's and nature's immutable laws, and are suicidal if practiced." Yep...good Christian here. Butch

DomKen -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 2:47:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen You're using the fact he repeated an anti semitic lie as proof he wasn't christian? You've really got to be kidding me. I assume you will also claim every other spreader of variants of the blood libel isn't a christian either? Just one question do you have any idea what the christian identity movement believes? So Abraham is not part of the Christian Religion?... How about this one then "The Big Lie technique, employed by Paul to create the CHRISTIAN RELIGION, also was used to create the HOLOCAUST RELIGION ... CHRISTIANITY AND THE HOLOCAUST are HOAXES. "Christianity" destroyed Roman Civilization. The "Holocaust" Religion is destroying Western Civilization." Or maybe this quote "As duped Aryan sheep begin to understand the 'Holocaust' they also begin to better understand Christianity. Both have similar origins. Both have identical objectives.... The New Testament was written in Greek. Paul - who believed the World was flat, that Joshua made the sun stand still, and Jehovah spoke from a burning bush -- wrote one-third of it, perhaps more. The events described in the 24 Books are often contradictory, fail the time-line, defy both archaeology's and nature's immutable laws, and are suicidal if practiced." Yep...good Christian here. Butch And almost all directly out of christian identity. It is becoming clear you have no idea what teh christian identity movement believes and how that influences their anti semitism. Quickly they believe that all jews are involved in a grand conspiracy pretending to be descended from the biblical hebrews when, according to them, the true descendants of the biblical hebrews are white europeans. Paul is rejected as is the Roman church. Instead they believe a purer form of christianity was practiced in Europe prior to the rise of the Roman church. Please study the subject if you're going to continue arguing the issue.

kdsub -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 3:35:57 PM)
Dom….It is ok to be wrong now and then... you can't call Christianity a hoax and be Christian... Can't you see he is just using whatever he feels like to justify his hate....He does not represent Christianity their teaching or views... he is just a sociopath plain and simple. Damn how much proof do you need…his own words are no good enough for you… I am beginning to think you have a problem separating your prejudices from reality. Butch

sirsholly -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 3:38:23 PM)
quote: . he is just using whatever he feels like to justify his hate....He does not represent Christianity their teaching or views. totally agree!!

DomKen -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 4:38:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Dom….It is ok to be wrong now and then... you can't call Christianity a hoax and be Christian... Can't you see he is just using whatever he feels like to justify his hate....He does not represent Christianity their teaching or views... he is just a sociopath plain and simple. Damn how much proof do you need…his own words are no good enough for you… I am beginning to think you have a problem separating your prejudices from reality. Butch Of course it's ok to be wrong and I admit it when I am. However I have kept a close eye on the white supremacist movement for years and what you call non christian I correctly identify as standard stuff from the christian identity movement. I really don't care if you don't like it but the facts are the facts. Investigate the movement or look up british israelism theology but at the very least if you have nothing but assertions of "he's not christian because I don't like what he wrote' then stop already.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 4:57:12 PM)
The "christian identity movement" has the same relationship to Christianity then, as a loanshark has to credit union? [:)] Firm

DomKen -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 5:04:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY The "christian identity movement" has the same relationship to Christianity then, as a loanshark has to credit union? [:)] Firm Depends who you ask. They identify as christians and many actually keep the old testament laws to some degree, I've seen very disturbing video of a christian identity passover seder for instance. They mostly reject Paul and the roman church so if the Acts and the epistles are central to your definition of christianity then I would say no. From the outside looking in they are clearly doctrinally on the far fringes but in a world where mormonism is widely accepted as christian then I don't feel comfortable excluding self identified christians of any stripe.

LadyEllen -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 5:05:22 PM)
Christian Identity's key commonality is British Israelism theology, which teaches that white Europeans are the literal descendants of the Israelites through the ten tribes that were taken away into captivity by the armies of Assyria. Furthermore, the teaching holds that these (White European) Israelites are still God's Chosen People, that Jesus was an Israelite of the tribe of Judah, and that modern Jews are not at all Israelites nor Hebrews but are instead descended from people with Turco-Mongolian blood, or Khazars, and are descendants of the Biblical Esau-Edom who traded his birthright for a bowl of soup (Genesis 25:29-34). from Wikipedia - plenty more info if you type christian identity into Google Damnit now I'm confused; as a good Fuehrer fearing nazi, are this lot calling me a Jew, or what? Do I exterminate them and leave those I thought were Jews alone? Am I in fact, everything I hate (a Jew)? It was so much easier before the internet E

Vendaval -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 5:29:03 PM)
Word! quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly OH PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You might (might!!) be able to make that statement if he did not have such an extensive history of overt hatred for all things/races different from him. I do not give a dead rats ass how old he was or what happened to his social security check...and i bet you the family of the guard he killed feels the same. So fucking sick of blaming the government for shit like this. HE is responsible for his actions....no one else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lucylastic -> RE: Shooting at Holocaust Museum in D.C. (6/12/2009 6:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval Word! quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly OH PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You might (might!!) be able to make that statement if he did not have such an extensive history of overt hatred for all things/races different from him. I do not give a dead rats ass how old he was or what happened to his social security check...and i bet you the family of the guard he killed feels the same. So fucking sick of blaming the government for shit like this. HE is responsible for his actions....no one else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His social security was "maybe" slashed a year ago, so I dont see it as being the straw that broke the assholes back http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7826285&page=2 Hes in critical condition, Hes a homegrown terrorist/hater. Lucy

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