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ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Hmm (scratching my head) i believe i said i was speaking for myself only. Is this not a place to share ideas and different concepts? Is this not a place to "think out loud" and see what others think?

Yes it is and you even asked what people think. I'm sorry if you didn't like some of the responses you received, particularly mine, but they are my opinions and I stand by them. Just as you stand by yours.

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i certainly didn't intend to get people heated over it.

I don't see anyone heated over it. What I see is a group of adults sharing opinions which is sort of the whole point.

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ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

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ORIGINAL: MHOO314

What are your thoughts on this when you add O/our dynamic?

I think it's the height of hubris to believe that losing a mate is so much harder when you add 'our dynamic' (as if we all have the same dynamic...criminy). I will never understand why so many who are into BDSM have this incessant need to believe that BDSM makes them more open, more evolved, capable of feeling more deeply, more special and that their relationships are more intense than non-BDSM relationships. Losing a mate is difficult. Period. Full stop. Having 'our dynamic' thrown in there doesn't make it any more difficult or tragic. It sucks no matter how you spin it.

</rant>

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

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Add to it a slave who has lost her Master, and it creates a different element

Ok, not to start flaming or anything, because I am truly curious about this. My issue is that I really FAIL to see how being in a Master/slave relationship could possibly make the loss greater. The loss of a spouse is hard for ANYONE, no matter what the dynamic of the relationship. When I lost my husband, I did not grieve as a slave losing her Master...I grieved as a person who lost thier best friend, husband, and father. My feelings of loss were no greater and no less than those who are in 'nilla relationships. I am just having a hard time understanding how anyone could possibly say that since he was my Master, I must have been grieving more.

i did not say one grieved more than the other. i said there was an added (maybe "different" is a better choice of words) element to the struggle of finding ones footing again. These are merely my ponderings and ant an absolute statement of truth or fact (who would i be to make such a statement). i acknowledged that the death of a spouse is tragic to anyone. i am only exploring the idea of degrees of dependency one may have to husband/Master/Dominant. Understanding that this is a very sensitive topic (with good cause to be sensitive), i honestly wish to offend nobody or even appear to be trying to taking away from anyone's grief (which i couldnt if i wanted to, as grief is a very individual thing).

It's kind of like that argument - is losing someone less difficult because you have been "warned" in advance (ie; they had an illness)? Grief is never "less difficult." The loss of life is exactly that - a loss.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyV
I find it odd that many don't think there would be any extra concern of a lost of a partner in a BDSM dynamic. While I haven't had any personal experience in death of a husband or a Dom, I have had relationships break up on both BDSM and vanilla. I can tell you there is a difference, especially from the submissive point of view.

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Depending on how long you'd been with them and what kind of D/s relationship you've had.. there can be some phenominal problems that just aren't that prevalent in vanilla.

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How many vanilla relationships does your partner have complete 100% control of your body functions? Complete control over finances? Complete control over meals, meal plans, cleaning, etc? Complete control over daily plans, where to go, what to do, when to do it?

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I guess it depends on what kind of dynamic you're in maybe.. But I'm currently counceling a male sub who had a healthy sex life before he found his Mistress, and now after just 3 months with her and she's gone.. He can't even get hard (not to mention other problems).

So I guess you won't convince me that there isn't something more to a BDSM loss, than a vanilla one.

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ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

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ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i think the idea is that when a slave becomes totally dependent on her Master. He is her center and her focus. her submission to him is what gives her strength. If he is suddenly removed from the picture, there is a different kind of struggle which takes place, to find her footing again (in addition to grieving the loss of a loved one). Death is difficult on anyone. Add to it a slave who has lost her Master, and it creates a different element.

Thank you for displaying exactly the type of exaggerated self importance I was talking about. There are plenty of people in non-BDSM relationships that become dependant/interdependant on their mates and suffer horribly from their loss. It is not a "different" struggle. Everyone has to find their footing again and many rely on their mates for things that they will then have to learn to do for themselves once they are gone. I know that if my husband were to be gone from this earth tomorrow there are tonnes of things I'd have to re-learn to do for myself simply due to the division of labour in our home.

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The dependence i feel on my Master is much different than the dependence i felt on my ex husband. i would think a good Master would train and prepare his slave to stand strong on her own and to exist without him should the misfortune of his death occur. But what if he dies before she reaches that goal? It is an interesting question. my Master have been speaking out it very recently.

That may be true for you but that doesn't make it a universal truth. Just because you didn't have that with your ex doesn't mean others don't have it with their non-kinky partners.

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Making the thought that BDSM relationship would suffer greater lost is nothing more that pompus self-glorifing and as no substance to the issues of lost one would feel, regards of there lifestyle choices!

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ORIGINAL: MHOO314

The pain of death is subjective, emotional and hits a raw nerve in U/us all, it has been interesting to watch the responses---

Knight wrestles with what may happen if he loses one--the coping he must do--the help he must be to the other

ownedgirlie wrestles with the loss of Master--because her devotion to her is deep, total, complete--it doesn't matter if it can be matched in the vanilla world--to her it is unmatched--

MsIncognito feels there is no difference if the dynamic is or isn't there--grief and loss are to her, painful no matter

IrishMist says it does not matter if its Mister or Master-it hurts


the point is--it is subjective, grief is what it is, mourning is what it will be--but be sure you are prepared with notifications, bank accounts, living arrangements, ICE envelopes--because we are different, we live by different rules---a Dom takes a sub to live in a house left in a will for the children and he dies--

A Domme has a boy thousands of miles away and She gets in an accident--

An 8 year online relationship--

Because we do things with our own way, our own laws, things can happen--

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ORIGINAL: Crazytwice

With all due respect, I believe Mistress Hathor was referring to the cloak of secrecy that unfortunately is needed in some BDSM relations. Imagine a close personal friend and/or lover passing and no one knew enough to tell you. I have had a 8-yr online friendship and if anything happened to him, it's very likely I wouldn't know. That would be heart-breaking.

She was merely asking for suggestions to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

CT

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Depending on how long you'd been with them and what kind of D/s relationship you've had.. there can be some phenominal problems that just aren't that prevalent in vanilla.


Like what specifically?

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Like having to make choices that a vanilla does not have to make. You can choose to push down everything within you which screams out to submit. You can choose to come out and risk losing your children or you can choose to stay in the darkness, not tell anyone else and carry your burdens alone.

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Like not having a support network because no one knows that your Master just died and you can't tell them. You have no one to speak with, no shoulder on which to lean. No voices to comfort you. No one to vent or rant to.. and help you with your guilt when that day comes and you realized you've gone a whole day without, once, thinking about your loss. Or you realized that you just laughed again for the first time and it makes you cry that you did so. You could not be out, so everything, literally everything you feel from that loss is internal. You have to cry in the bathrooms, quietly, so no one wonders why you are so upset and acting like you've lost your best friend in the whole world. You've never felt so alone in all your life because you've never been so alone. No one can hold out their hand to you because they don't know they should. No one to stand by you when you bury him.

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you only made a distinction of some people in the lifestyle (In shadows) as compared to others in the lifesyle!

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there can be some phenominal problems that just aren't that prevalent in vanilla."

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What problems would be prevalent in a vanilla relationship that are not there in one that centers around this dynamic?

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

As I can't speak for BDSM as a whole, only for myself.

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

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What problems would be prevalent in a vanilla relationship that are not there in one that centers around this dynamic?

I quoted a text which said problems which are 'not' prevalent in vanilla relationships, then listed a specific problem relating to a specific lifestyle choice. As specifics had been requested, that's what I provided based strictly on my own experience.

Celeste

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ORIGINAL: IronBear

Different people have different relationships with those close to them. Each relationship has it's own dynamic and it's own area of vulnerability. Is the death of a work mate of many years less painfull than the death of a social friend? Is the death of a relitive less painfullk than the death of a lover? Is the death of a parent less worse than the death of a sibling? Is the death of your child less worse than than the death of your husband.wife/partner? Is the death of a submisive/slaves's dominant less worse than the death of a Dominant's submissive/slave? Is the death of a loved one from a terminal illness less worse that the sudden death of natural causes of that same person who was full of energy and life yesterday?

There is no answer. The depth and extent of grief will vary from each person and each relationship. One thing in common is that such losses hurt like hell and even with the most meticulas planning and open discussions, the sudden knowledge that you will never see, talk to or hold that person again is a devisting realisation and each person will deal or not deal with it according to their nature.

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Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence!
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and Determination alone are omnipotent!
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It's all in the game and how you play it!