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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/13/2006 5:07:05 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Like slavejali, I too have gone thru the death of a Master. It was painful and emotionally debilitating. He was the one who brought me to D/s and led my path for 12 years. We had planned on growing old together and living out our days quietly somewhere. That all changed when he was diagnosed with an illness and choose not to seek treatment, knowing that eventually it would kill him. In the beginning I fought with him and begged him to take treatment, but I also knew he would chose his own destiny despite anything I or others wanted, and I did and do respect that choice. In the last year of his life, I was diagnosed with an illness of my own, which only added to the stress we both were under. I chose treatment and fought to get well. This was more difficult than most can imagine, living together while one fights to live and the other fights to die. But our love and devotion to each other never waivered, but it was certainly tested more than I would ever want again.

slavejali wrote:
*****
1. Never leave things go unsaid. and make those things you say sweet.
2. Live your life in a way that will create cherished memories that will last forever.
3. Talk about death with your partner, to get an understanding while they are alive that you wish them, and they wish you happiness, to alleviate guilt for moving on with your life after your partner has passed.
4. Ensure you have your estate in order.
5. Realise now that we are more than a body and that our spirits do go on.
******
Take this advice to heart. I experienced alot of peace in my grief, because we were able to do all of those things, except #4. He, actually did not die of his disease. He had a seizure one day while I was away, and hit his head on the granite table and died suddenly. We had been talking about getting things in order, but it never came to pass. I was fortunate that his mother and sister were very supportive and fair with me.

I have to take issue with " our dynamic" making this harder than in vanilla. I know others who are vanilla and lost their life partner, I don't assume my grief to have been greater or lesser than theirs. When I boil it down to the most basic description, he was the man I was going to spend my life with. That is who I lost. I can get Dominant or Master anytime, but I can never get HIM back. It's the feelings and emotional intamacies of that person that are gone and lots of the silly stuff. The things that made that relationship unique. That, to me, has little to do with any "dynamic" we had.

I have had two wonderful relationships, since his death. Each different and unique, if I had lost either of thise people to death, I am fairly sure, it would be a different grief. Simply because each person is different and we grieve each loss differently.

Having lost my first Dominant to death, 6 years later I only see the good we shared, I only smile. Even when I hear " Heros " on the radio and tear up and cry, it is because I am remembering something special between us. More importantly, because he was very clear that he did not want to live with his illness, and were able to say things that perhaps some never get the chance to say. To repeat myself.... heed slavejali's advice.

mbmbn

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/13/2006 5:19:20 PM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		We've gotten way too serious here.

quote:

What do you do to prepare to know if something has happened

What have you done or are you prepared to do if something has happened

How have you dealt with the death of a M/mate----


Personally, I thought the prosecutor was harsh and the jury unsympathetic, but the warden has been awfully nice to let me use his computer on CM.

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/13/2006 5:19:29 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

An that is the point.. you can only speak for yourself. So making a claim that "LIFESTYLE" people have Issues that are beyond "Vanilla" people. Well that really isn't speaking for yourself now is it?


Perhaps, next time, you won't ask for specifics when what you are truly searching for are generalities, or rather, the lack thereof. If 'that' had been the question, I wouldn't have posted at all. I never made any such claim, so please don't put words into my mouth where none existed.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 8:29:30 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

An that is the point.. you can only speak for yourself. So making a claim that "LIFESTYLE" people have Issues that are beyond "Vanilla" people. Well that really isn't speaking for yourself now is it?


Perhaps, next time, you won't ask for specifics when what you are truly searching for are generalities, or rather, the lack thereof. If 'that' had been the question, I wouldn't have posted at all. I never made any such claim, so please don't put words into my mouth where none existed.

Celeste


sometimes the best way to answer a question is "state that it can't be answered". sometimes asking a a question as such shows the hidden ideals of a person. I asked and got exactly what I expected, but not what I hoped!

There you words... not mine..... " you speak for yourself... but yet you answer it universally" the inconsistency is rather obvious!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 10:51:15 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

sometimes the best way to answer a question is "state that it can't be answered". sometimes asking a a question as such shows the hidden ideals of a person. I asked and got exactly what I expected, but not what I hoped!

There you words... not mine..... " you speak for yourself... but yet you answer it universally" the inconsistency is rather obvious!


I answered within the parameters of the question. If you choose to see something outside those parameters and assume the answer meant something other than what it was, there's nothing I can do about that. I'm a literalist. When someone asks a question within a certain parameter, I take them at their word that it's what they really wish to know. I will not do that with you again and since I can't possibly know what you're really asking, I suppose it just means I'll have to avoid answering any questions you may ask in the future.

I'm rather disappointed in that, but then I expected a bit more myself. I wasn't prepared for my words to be taken out of context and some other meaning applied to them. I have tried in all ways I can to help clarify myself and have failed. I blame myself for being unable to present the truth of my thoughts as it means my own skill in communication was less than desireable, but since your mind is set and you believe I've been inconsistent, I'll just have to live with it.

That my thoughts and intent were not understood brings me to conclude this will have to be left to rest as there is nothing I can say at this point that will change the perceptions that's out there and I will not take back what I said, because it's the truth of what I think, but neither will I allow someone to continue to try to put words into my mouth which I did not speak nor think. My option is to continue to beat a dead horse, or to close down this thread and go elsewhere.


Celeste

"If a man asks me if I like horses and I say yes and then he asks me if I like zebras and I say no, he concludes I don't like horses and nothing I can say will change his mind. It's sad, because it means he'll never go horseback riding with me and we both miss out on a good thing."

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 2/14/2006 11:05:49 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 4:02:11 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		MHO

one of the thoughts that just came to me is to consider the death of ourselves.

IE... what about our toys... In my case... I have a dungeon filled with all sorts of stuff. Now if alandra is around not such a big deal... however, what if alandra and I both suddenly pass away in a car accident etc. Currently, kyra is not living with us... so her ability to deal with the situation is indeed challenging. Now our families would have to come to the rescue of the children etc. My mother already knows about my special room... thou the details are very um vague to her. but she has often referred it as my kinky room and that I am her kinky son... Strange how parents just pick up on those kind of things *G* her and I never had the conversation. None the less. I have friends to count on in the event of that situation. I am sure kyra would have a very difficult time as it is... she wouldn't need the stress of dealing with these issues. denika and her husband and a couple others would be very important in the event of this situation. They could both provide some sort of comfort to kyra but also help deal with the room and all the stuff. For some of us... our death leaves no issues.... what others know is not an issue.... dealing with a few toys... throw in the bag and in the dump it goes. But, some of us have alot of strings attached. Little ones, family, and whole rooms of stuff. these issues don't bother us when we are dead... But they do bother those we love that are left behind.

Anytime we leave this world... we are capable of passing off unwanted issues on to our loved ones. So often Financial burdens is the first and foremost considered. But, often other things are there as well... we need to look at our individual situation and protect those we love from carrying burdens that is more than they deserve.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MHOO314)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 4:57:50 PM   
magdelina


Posts: 9
Status: offline 		i was hesitant to open this thread and read all written, but i am glad i did so. i felt no pain, or frustration, more it was to see what others had to say.i saw some other sisters have dealt with this sorrow.

i have always wondered if there was a great tragedy in my life, would i turn to God? would i be strong,would the best come out in me or the worse?

i know those answers now, and have come through the other side. yes, my faith in God deepened, and i turned towards Him ,and not away. yes, i had to be strong, and not only that, but for reasons that will come clear, vigilent. and i learned to endure, and now, to live again, looking at life with joy, and still vibrant and passionate.

Master was murdered. on assignment, serving His country, in a very brutal manner. He went missing for fourteen days before His team found Him. and there was danger, and i had to be very quiet, act "normal" and be very careful, vigilent

how does one get through such? day by day, sometimes minute by minute. and no, it is not touched by "dynamics", it is a human tragedy alone.

and rage, no one has mentioned that. it exists, rage at circumstances, at diseases, at the suddeness, at what might have been, most of the rage is for our children, and how life has cheated them.

anger, i was so angry, why did He take such a dangerous assignment, why were not i and the children enough. but see, to give in to that would negate Him, and that is not permissable, so therefore i honor His choice, and have fierce pride in His vocation, and my love of country grew also.

since His death, i have grown, found strengths in myself i never knew i had, and carried on, knowing exactly how He would wish me to behave, and live.

what have i found? that life is beautiful. that life is to be lived fully, because me living with joy enobles what we had.

and , i have been so blessed, so many good things, so many miracles, and i know with all my being, it is because He is there, guiding, intervening, and lving still. He is within me, evey day. and i will see Him again.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 5:13:31 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

and rage, no one has mentioned that. it exists, rage at circumstances, at diseases, at the suddeness, at what might have been, most of the rage is for our children, and how life has cheated them.


How very true. No one did mention the rage that is felt when you lose someone. I know I went through it, though I had to keep it tightly contained because there were youngins involved. Does not change the fact that it was there though.

KnightofMists, you brought up something that I had actually not thought about lol. It took me almost 3 years before I could go through my husbands toys <G> and decide what to do with them. Thankfully, when I did, I had some family, and friends who helped.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/14/2006 9:27:21 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		i have come to the conclusion in life that no one ever truly understands what another is going through unless they have been there themselves. Therefore any speculation, assumption or opinion i have had on this topic really stand up to nothing, as i have not been so misfortunate as to lose a life partner.

This thread stayed with me. It has been on my mind, and as i think of the input so many have made on here, i am even more convinced that, unless i have gone through something so tragic as to lose my life partner, i really don't know what i am talking about.

That being said, it was my quest to discover that which i could not see, which prompted the questions i originally posed. i never once thought or said that one persons grief was more or less than others. In fact, i never saw that view posted by anyone in this thread, but i saw a lot of people defend that argument for some reason.

The part that was tapping on my brain is that it seems to be that those of us who live lives as slaves, submissives, dominants, masters might conduct the intimacies of our relationships different than those who do not. If that were not the case, why would we have a Message Board geared toward the very subject of such relationship? It was based on view point where i posed my question that, if our relationships are not "typical", or what many define as "vanilla", would it come to pass that recovery from such relationships would also not be "typical?"

i can see from the posts here, that clearly might not be the case.

i spoke with a friend of mine today. He has been a close friend for years. i was his ear when his wife became ill, and when she was later hospitalized, and when he had to make the decision to discontinue life support and hold her hand as she died. He was left behind with two kids to raise, and a demanding job which required his time and energy, and a house that he had no clue how to run. i don't know why i did not think of him before, but when i spoke to him today i was reminded of this thread.

i always try to choose the side of enlightenment by keeping an open mind, when discussing issues. To those of you who laid out your "opposing" opinions with compassion, grace, and respect, i commend you and thank you, as i do clearly see what you are saying. To those who chose to label me and those who thought like me with unflattering characterizations in defense of your point, i can only suggest that doing such in defense of your argument does not do much to open the eyes and ears of your audience.

To everyone who has suffered the loss of a life partner, Master, submissive, spouse....my heart goes out to you and i never once in my ponderings intended to minimize anything you went through.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 7:08:34 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

That being said, it was my quest to discover that which i could not see, which prompted the questions i originally posed. i never once thought or said that one persons grief was more or less than others. In fact, i never saw that view posted by anyone in this thread, but i saw a lot of people defend that argument for some reason.



your kidding right

quote:

So I guess you won't convince me that there isn't something more to a BDSM loss, than a vanilla one


this doesn't reflect that the lost of one is different or unique.... or even personal. It's a very univeral statement that a BDSM Loss is "More" "Greater Than" a vanilla one! This statement disregards anything individual or personal. It disregards each individuals style and capacities to deal with deal. It disregards individuals PERIOD! It takes two labels and puts them at odds with one another.

quote:

So very well said. i've been at a loss wondering why this isn't widely agreed upon,....


this quote is a followup to the above quote.... simply stated.... the reason why many don't agree with BDSM loss being more than a "Vanilla" One... is simply we are all unique and different. No loss is going to be the same, each has it's challenges and struggles. Loss can't be compared. It's difficult no matter who it is or what lifestyle they live.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 7:19:46 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		KOM:

No i was not kidding...nor do i know what you are asking what i am kidding about.

The next quote....hmm...i do not believe is mine so i can't address it, however you did not attach the poster's name on it.

As to what you summarized, i believe i summarized the same. We seem to be recycling and regurgitating the same argurment.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 7:28:04 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

KOM:

No i was not kidding...nor do i know what you are asking what i am kidding about.

The next quote....hmm...i do not believe is mine so i can't address it, however you did not attach the poster's name on it.

As to what you summarized, i believe i summarized the same. We seem to be recycling and regurgitating the same argurment.



ok I guess that post was not straight forward enough for you.....

you claim you did not see where anyone held the view that one's loss was greater than another. I showed the statement not only where a one's loss was more - greater but a whole lifesyle was greater and more than another.

a statement that you agree too! maybe you should go back and read the thread alittle more closely!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 7:41:47 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I answered within the parameters of the question.


actually you narrowed the context! The context being that BDMS loss is greater than a vanilla one and that is because the BDSM has specific issues to deal with that just are not prevalent in a "Vanilla" one. The implication is that these issues make the BDSM loss Greater than the vanila one. So are you saying every example you give is an arguement that a BDSM loss is greater than the vanilla one?

You only saw my question... and didn't look at the context that I was asking it in. You didn't consider who the question was directed towards.. and the opinion that person was giving. You choice to answer a question implies support to the person feelings and opinions that BDSM loss is More than a Vanilla one! Given the context that the question was asked in!


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 8:27:52 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

KOM:

No i was not kidding...nor do i know what you are asking what i am kidding about.

The next quote....hmm...i do not believe is mine so i can't address it, however you did not attach the poster's name on it.

As to what you summarized, i believe i summarized the same. We seem to be recycling and regurgitating the same argurment.



ok I guess that post was not straight forward enough for you.....

you claim you did not see where anyone held the view that one's loss was greater than another. I showed the statement not only where a one's loss was more - greater but a whole lifesyle was greater and more than another.

a statement that you agree too! maybe you should go back and read the thread alittle more closely!


i am beginning to be convinced that some people just like to argue. Even when the side with an opposing opinion opens their mind up to see both sides of an issue, one debater still wishes to argue and make failed attempts at belittling. Never in any of my posts did i make a statement grief was more on one side or the other. i posed questions, and considered both sides. i am not one to "stand by my argument" just for the sake of standing by it, because i like to keep an open mind and consider an opinion i might be missing.

You commented earlier this thread with an assumption that anyone who felt differently than what you were expressing was "pompous and self glorifying". Perhaps you are reading and interpreting my posts with that assumption still in mind.

i don't know, i guess i would rather just talk about a topic than toss insults around in an effort to make my point. Regardless, i DO see both sides of the argument now, because of those who posted thoughtful and clear comments which demonstrated their opinions. If you feel the need to belabor the point that i am still somehow wrong in your eyes...that is your perogative.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 11:02:30 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

actually you narrowed the context!


quote:



Depending on how long you'd been with them and what kind of D/s relationship you've had.. there can be some phenominal problems that just aren't that prevalent in vanilla.


Like what specifically?


That's the question which I answered based on the prior comment and that's the only context I answered within. Something 'specific' to a given D/s situation which is not prevalent in vanilla. The given D/s situation I choose, which is one which many have, the choice not to be out due to whatever reasons they may have to remain in the closet. Very narrow, very specific to 'that' D/s choice. If you broaden the scope, that's your choice, but then my answer no longer applies and I've never said anything different or been inconsistant in my statement.



quote:

The context being that BDMS loss is greater than a vanilla one and that is because the BDSM has specific issues to deal with that just are not prevalent in a "Vanilla" one.


No, the context was 'depending... and 'what kind of D/s relationship.. not the entire BDSM culture. You broadened the context, and then applied my answer to it. I took the question literally without expansion and answered it that way. See what you wish, argue it to death. Take it out of context, bend it twist it, whatever you want which fits your agenda. My answer stands as I wrote it based on what I believe the correct context is, not on what you believe it should be for me. You think you see so clearly what my thoughts are, what my perceptions are and because of that call me inconsistant and say it's obviously so.

quote:

The implication is that these issues make the BDSM loss Greater than the vanila one. So are you saying every example you give is an arguement that a BDSM loss is greater than the vanilla one?


I guess you missed this part.
quote:

The loss isn't felt more deeply, you just don't have anyone to help you hold the burden of it.


That's what I said, so I don't know why you feel the need to ask the question.

quote:

You only saw my question... and didn't look at the context that I was asking it in.
I absolutely did, but if I missed interrpreted it because I viewed the context differently than you, it doesn't mean that I believe as you think I do. That's simply miscommunication and a lack of clarity.

quote:

You didn't consider who the question was directed towards.. and the opinion that person was giving.


That's correct. I took only the question at it's face value since I don't know the poster, or you, that's all I can do. The words written were the only thing I had to go on and they, and they alone were the soul measure of my response.

quote:

You choice to answer a question implies support to the person feelings and opinions that BDSM loss is More than a Vanilla one!


Again, I took the question only at it's face value and haven't a clue on the posters feelings or personal opinions and I find redundancy to be a futile effort. More than once you stated that 'implications' are in place based on 'your' view of the context in question. You are more than welcome to imply anything you like, but it doesn't mean it's a truth.

quote:

Given the context that the question was asked in!
You see the context as one thing, I see it as another. Anything you infere from my answers is your own perception and does not mean it's what "I" think since we, obviously, view it differently.



quote:

sometimes the best way to answer a question is "state that it can't be answered".
I see no purpose in asking a question of someone in which you have pre-determined that there is no answer. It seems to me that sets them up for failure and ridicule. Is there some other purpose, other than to belittle those whom would answer than to point out what you see as their flaws and deceit?
quote:



sometimes asking a a question as such shows the hidden ideals of a person.


To me, you asked for one thing, but wanted something different. My great-grandmother would call that speaking with a forked tongue. From that should I 'imply' that you are inconsistant or devious or is it ok to believe that we simply thought of the actual context from different places and with different processes to arrive at a conclusion?

I believe this to be a simple matter of viewpoint and interpertation. My view is one way as to the context, and I 'know' what my view is and what I based it on.. and your view is another as to context with the difference being you didn't 'know' what my view of the context was, obviously, since you keep 'implying' it was something quite different.

In truth, do you see any purpose at all to continuing this debate with me? I tried to give it one more go, but it's grown so tiresome. It's the same thing, over and over again and I would prefer to let it rest. Will you agree to disagree and we can drop the whole thing? It seems to me that both of us could be much more productive on this forum by doing so. It's bad air and I believe we should put overselves above it.

What do you say?

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 11:33:10 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		well one ask a question... they are asking from a specific context.... giving my opinion might be all and good in my context... but really it of absolutely no value! becuase they ask the question in their context... and any answer that is applicable should be consider in the context of the person asking the question in the first place. changing context is not much an issue ... IF a person makes note of the context change! I could of asked the question more clearly... but since my question was very specificially towards the person I quoted... I didn't think it neccessary to become more involved with a question. I made an assumption (my mistake) that if someone want to answer the question... that they would of been following the person's view point and beable to assert the context of the conversation.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 11:42:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I think Bita was very specific in saying "In certain circumstances, this particular aspect will be more difficult in this particular way."

Which is true. And it is true that in vanilla relationships "in certain circumstances, this particular aspect will be more difficult in this particular way."

While others IMO HAVE stated that they consider bdsm to be more difficult to mourn than vanilla relationships, I think Bita was pretty specific and was not universalizing, as well as remaining true to the intent of the question.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 12:09:34 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

well one ask a question... they are asking from a specific context.... giving my opinion might be all and good in my context... but really it of absolutely no value! becuase they ask the question in their context... and any answer that is applicable should be consider in the context of the person asking the question in the first place. changing context is not much an issue ... IF a person makes note of the context change! I could of asked the question more clearly... but since my question was very specificially towards the person I quoted... I didn't think it neccessary to become more involved with a question. I made an assumption (my mistake) that if someone want to answer the question... that they would of been following the person's view point and beable to assert the context of the conversation.



quote:

Depending on how long you'd been with them and what kind of D/s relationship you've had.. there can be some phenominal problems that just aren't that prevalent in vanilla.

How many vanilla relationships does your partner have complete 100% control of your body functions? Complete control over finances? Complete control over meals, meal plans, cleaning, etc? Complete control over daily plans, where to go, what to do, when to do it?


I guess it just seemed to me that Simply's context was a pretty narrow focus of a TPE relationship that is shared by many but certainly not everyone in BDSM. Personally, I don't know of 'any' vanilla relationships which meet his/her criteria but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I would very surprised if this sort of lifestyle was prevalent in the vanilla world, however, since I don't think it's that prevalent in BDSM.

I've decided to blame Simply for the clarity issue since what was written was a specific, narrow parameter followed by a gross generalization that he/she couldn't be convinced there wasn't 'more' to a BDSM loss than a vanilla one. That two people could view the same post so differently is the writers fault, not the readers. The problem here, of course, is that I don't believe I changed the context. My own post was, or so I thought, fairly clear that it was also of narrow focus and within context based on Simply's own narrow parameter.

I have gotten something out of this thread though, and that actually came from a post you wrote about toy's. If Himself or I go at different times, no issues. The one remaining will take care of things. But, if we should die together, his daughter would be in for one hell of a shock. Not just toys either. I'm a picture slut and video tape and take pictures of anything new and different which we try. We are now discussing ways to alleviate bringing extra heartache to his offspring, a dialogue I'm not sure would have been opened without this thread.

Celeste



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 12:26:05 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i am beginning to be convinced that some people just like to argue. Even when the side with an opposing opinion opens their mind up to see both sides of an issue, one debater still wishes to argue and make failed attempts at belittling. Never in any of my posts did i make a statement grief was more on one side or the other. i posed questions, and considered both sides. i am not one to "stand by my argument" just for the sake of standing by it, because i like to keep an open mind and consider an opinion i might be missing.



so anyone that points out your own statements and statements that you agreed to is arguing with you? I recognize that at one point you stated

quote:

did not say, nor did i intend to imply, that the death or loss of a Master would make one feel more grief than the death or loss of anyone else


but then your very next post you go and agree with someone that states BDSM loss is more than Vanilla one. This is not keeping an open mind... this flip floping from one side of the coin to another.

Open-mindedness is indeed an admiral character strength. But Open-mindedness is not Agreeing to one side and then Agreeing to another side of the same postion. A particular definition of open-mindedness that I find rather enlightening is the defintion provided by Christopher Peterson and Martin E.P. Seligman in their book Character Strengths and Virtures.

"open-mindedness is the willingness to search actively for evidence against one's favored beliefs, plans or goals, and to weight such evidence fairly when it is available. Its opposite has bee called the myside bias, which refers to the pervasive tendency to think in wasy that favor ones' current views"

I believe strongly that there is no manner to establish a univerally greater sense of loss in a BDSM lifestyle as compared to a vanilla one. I believe that it is very subjective and for some individually a BDSM loss is considered greater... for others a loss is a loss. but at the end of it... However, I am willing to listen to a case which states a BDSM lost is greater than a Vanilla one. But, we out question since I am in the BDSM lifestyle... have vanilla relationships. I couldn't image that lost of my girls kyra and/or alandra could be any more or less than any lost I would suffer if it was one of my four kids. I couldn't image that lost of my kyra and/or alandra would be any more or less than the lost my dear friends his daughter suffered. I can' image the lost of my kyra and/or alandra would be any more or less than the lost my bottom denika suffered when she lost her mother recently. If one wishes to make some unversally claim that a BDSM lost is greater than a vanilla one.. great.. BUT why. What makes that lost so greater. What rating system can be applied to "ALL" of us so we can determine which lost is greater and which is less. That's the think about universal claims... particular claims that infer a value over others... there has to be a rating system to establish a value of BDSM over vanilla. specificially it was aserted that certain phenomianal problems that just are not present in Vanilla make BDSM lost greater!. So what specific phenominal problems cause a BDSM loss to be greater than a vanilla one!? NONE I would say.... because you can't universally value a problem for everyone and equate that as a greater or lesser loss.

so therefore..


quote:


You commented earlier this thread with an assumption that anyone who felt differently than what you were expressing was "pompous and self glorifying". Perhaps you are reading and interpreting my posts with that assumption still in mind.


I hold to the "OPINION" not an assumption that those that want to universally claim a BDSM loss is more than a vanilla one they are only being pompous and self-glorifying. I can appreciate that for many individually certain losses would be much more tramatic than other losses. But, attempting to compare and evaluate losses between individuals and putting "Vanilla" at the lesser end... well that is belittling! Don't you think it hard enough to evaluate a loss within oneself.... but to try to evaluate that loss as greater than others ... no matter the parameters! well just seems a lost cause!




_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Death of a M/mate - 2/15/2006 12:44:31 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
I guess it just seemed to me that Simply's context was a pretty narrow focus of a TPE relationship that is shared by many but certainly not everyone in BDSM. Personally, I don't know of 'any' vanilla relationships which meet his/her criteria but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I would very surprised if this sort of lifestyle was prevalent in the vanilla world, however, since I don't think it's that prevalent in BDSM.



Yes Simply's context of a BDSM lifestyle was rather narrow. But coupled to that... all those things that make it TPE. How does those things value greater than the two people in a vanilla relationship together that decide together to have a baby or buy a house or go europe on holidays. Is there a universal value system that makes one greater than the other that I don't know about? In an indivdual sitaution, we all have preferences and our own value system. Mine is not better than yours, BDSM activites is not better than vanilla, whatever the hell they maybe. They are different, they are unique... they are personal perferences!

so specifically.. There is NO activities - problems that are prevelant in BDSM relationships that will universally make it more of a loss than a Vanilla one. It's subjective! and individually certain problems are harder for some than others, regardless of lifestyle.



This thread like so many others have caused me to reflect and consider different points of view. On occassion something is put forward that affects how I see things. I am particularly excited when my own view point changes because of what is shared or stated. I am fairly stong minded on issues that I will speak on and it is seldom that someone will provide a view point that will change my thoughts, but it does happen. I find I learn and change the most from threads that I never post too, I suspect that is similiar to many.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 80
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