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RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/19/2009 8:54:27 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I think that the only real difference between a sub and a dom is that one enjoys or prefers being a leader, and one enjoys or prefers being a follower.

Quoted for truth

I think it was LuckyAlbatross?? (maybe) who clarified this in my head a long time ago. I like making decisions. Carol doesn't. There ya have it.

quote:

Andalusite said:
Firm, I still think it's more useful to specifically limit that to within the context of a relationship. Leadership/following in their work/family/etc. life may or may not have any correlation to D/s.

If I interpret what you are saying correctly, it goes like this... "A person may be dominant in some roles in their lives, yet submissive in others. And the role we care about on these boards is that of intimate interpersonal relationships." If so, I agree. Are you sure you and firm are even quibbling or did he just take the focus as a given?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 81

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/19/2009 9:53:37 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
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AS A DOMINANT personality I embrace and hold a gift
given to my body.mind and soul..a gift I hold dear and wish to make good use of of the highest good of all..
I never say I am dom( well on here yes)
..it is RECOGNIZED...and in that recognition I am called to
lead and dominate situations in life ..work..play...for healing ,growth and change.

I hold dominion over my own life...I Master myself..I am in control of me..
and I am THAT "force" for others as well.

I am present to myself before I can be present to others..

I OFTEN have extra leading..teaching..organizing..
energy above and beyond regular...

to share :

>in order to liberate a will to be willing to
bend to my will in order to enhance my life and thiers

>in order to make a difference in others lives

>on order to organize and solve problems quicker than many

>in order to create harmony by organization of group dynamics wheather at work.home or play

>in order to react quickly in emergency and trauma situations..

> in order to coach ,empower and support others

There are many other gifts ppl have that do this too..I speak only for me and how I SEE my very DOMINANT self in the world and how I am to use this..

GQ

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 82

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/20/2009 1:36:33 PM

Andalusite

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Leadership, you're absolutely correct in understanding what I meant by it. I'm not sure which way Firm meant it, but Calla seemed quite definite that having control of your life is what she means by Dominance, which I think is important regardless of roles. So many times, you see people post here "Well, I'm a manager at work, I'm in charge of my umms, I have an alpha personality, how can I submit?!" or "Can my Master/Domme/etc. still be in control when he/she is sick, can someone who is fat be dominant, can someone who is shy be dominant?" So, I felt it was important to emphasise that on this particular board, I think it's a little silly to focus on the more general uses of domination and submission: animals, management, military, or personality, rather than on within the context of consensual romantic or service-oriented relationships.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 6/20/2009 1:38:39 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 83

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/20/2009 2:15:49 PM

leadership527

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I don't know Firm well, but I've chatted with Treasure a fair amount. I'd bet a dollar against a stale donut hole that he'd agree with what I wrote also. We'll see if he stops back again.

And as a total aside, DAMN I need to make a new profile. I hadn't considered how damned pompous it would sound if people started calling me "leadership" *laughs* Maybe next I'll make a profile called ... wait.. I'll just get Ash to make one up.. he's good at those super pompous sounding titles *laughs*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 84

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/20/2009 2:36:13 PM

Andalusite

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I can just call you Jeff, instead if you prefer - usually I use screen names, or an abbreviation if it is too long!

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 85

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/20/2009 4:42:30 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I don't know Firm well, but I've chatted with Treasure a fair amount. I'd bet a dollar against a stale donut hole that he'd agree with what I wrote also.

We'll see if he stops back again.

I totally agree.

To expand the concept a little:

Like many words in language, the same word can mean different things, or can have different connotations.

I believe a person can be dominate, even if they are are field-slave in real life. I believe a submissive can be a CEO of a major corporation, and have thousands of employees ready to do their every whim.

A dominant can have a good grasp of human nature, and order their environment and interpersonal relationships and everyone may acknowledge their "dominance". Likewise, another person who is "dominant" could be young or without much understanding or experience of the same aspects of life, and not be "considered" dominant.

They would both still be "dominants". It's just that one has been able to better actualize it than the other.

The same with a sub, in a mirror image.

It is when people relate "competence" with "dominance" and "incompetence" with "submission" that we have some of the greatest "shoot outs' on the boards, and in life.

In personal relationships, it is no different. I think we can certainly narrow the discussion field to just interpersonal (and perhaps sexual) relationships, but even then I think we are on shaky ground if we fall into the trap of confusing "dominance" with any type of "superiority", and "submission" with any type of "inferiority".

The are simply different aspects of peoples' personalities, complementary, and equal.

(As an aside, some of my most humorous readings on CM are when some "dom" tries to take Treasure to task for her supposed ignorance, or when they assume that she's some mousy little sub who should hew to their line of thinking.)

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 86

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/20/2009 7:42:03 PM

Jeptha

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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

....And as a total aside, DAMN I need to make a new profile. I hadn't considered how damned pompous it would sound if people started calling me "leadership" *laughs* Maybe next I'll make a profile called ... wait.. I'll just get Ash to make one up.. he's good at those super pompous sounding titles *laughs*.

I don't think 'leadership' is pompous (especially relatively speaking). The connotations and associations that I have with the word are from the genre of business literature for people who want to become conscientious and responsive managers.

Plus, it does sort of capsulize some of your philosophy and approach, which are not the usual sort.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 87

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 8:41:21 AM

daddysprop247

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From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Firm, I still think it's more useful to specifically limit that to within the context of a relationship. Leadership/following in their work/family/etc. life may or may not have any correlation to D/s.

but the thing is, D/s does not exist in a vacuum. if a man's dominance is only apparent or expressed within the confines of a particular personal relationship, then in my mind i cannot view that man as Dominant. i agree very much with Calla in that it is how one naturally responds and carries themselves throughout life in general, in and outside of a specific relationship.

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 88

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 9:58:25 AM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

but the thing is, D/s does not exist in a vacuum. if a man's dominance is only apparent or expressed within the confines of a particular personal relationship, then in my mind i cannot view that man as Dominant. i agree very much with Calla in that it is how one naturally responds and carries themselves throughout life in general, in and outside of a specific relationship.

This is also my thinking and experience. I whole heartedly agree.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 89

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 11:42:36 AM

BarnacleBill

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Good statement daddysprop so you should always be true to what you are! Mostly a Dom must improve his life and that of his sub as well. Spot any weakness and correct it so the sub will be come a strong mirror of their Dom. As well as improving their out look over their own selves and being proud of the training they have went thru as dirceted by their Dom!

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 90

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 12:51:39 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
but the thing is, D/s does not exist in a vacuum. if a man's dominance is only apparent or expressed within the confines of a particular personal relationship, then in my mind i cannot view that man as Dominant. i agree very much with Calla in that it is how one naturally responds and carries themselves throughout life in general, in and outside of a specific relationship.

I can't quite figure out if I'm agreeing with this or not. My overt dominance may or may not be expressed within any role I occupy in my life. For me, my ability to dominate is just one of many different tools in my tool belt. Sometimes it's the right tool for the job. Other times not so much.

When I think about other relationships with other women, I tend to assume that if I got involved with some woman to start with, then I must've found a wide variety of redeeming qualities in that person. I assume that whatever relationship I built would seek to nurture those qualities and avoid the less attractive ones. I can easily see myself happily in a relationship with no power dynamic at all. At least theoretically, I can also see myself in a submissive role in some other relationship, although that'd take a hell of a leader on the other side.

On the other hand, I never abdicate ownership of my own life. It is one of my truisms that I shape the reality around me, not the other way around. So there ya go, both sides of the coin *laughs*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 91

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 1:41:00 PM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

Firm, I still think it's more useful to specifically limit that to within the context of a relationship. Leadership/following in their work/family/etc. life may or may not have any correlation to D/s.

but the thing is, D/s does not exist in a vacuum. if a man's dominance is only apparent or expressed within the confines of a particular personal relationship, then in my mind i cannot view that man as Dominant. i agree very much with Calla in that it is how one naturally responds and carries themselves throughout life in general, in and outside of a specific relationship.

I disagree, Prop. No one is dominant in all aspects of life, every minute of the day. Everyone faces situations where it is prudent (as S. refers to it) “to stand down.”
Does the one who owns you not submit to the laws, to the government? Does he have any authority to make the person driving in front of him move out of his way? Does he have the influence to tell people at work how to live their private lives? If he is stopped for speeding does he have the power to tell the cop not to give him a ticket?

By the same token, it is impossible to submit in all aspects of life. An example of this would be if, as a submissive every second of the day, I would allow people in line at the grocery store to go in front of me---I would never get out of the store!

I do not see self-direction as a factor only in dominance. As a submissive I too must be self directed, motivated and take responsibility for myself.
To quote what CallaFireStorm said: In such a place, a person could, conceivably, be indentured, and yet still be the master of hir own fate……

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 92

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 2:31:33 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Original: catize

Does the one who owns you not submit to the laws, to the government? Does he have any authority to make the person driving in front of him move out of his way? Does he have the influence to tell people at work how to live their private lives? If he is stopped for speeding does he have the power to tell the cop not to give him a ticket?

I consider this to be a spurious argument. Of course, one aspect of living in community is a requirement to abide by its laws. However, as one in dominion, it is -also- my place to evaluate the laws of the land and the government under which I abide, and to determine whether the laws or actions of those governing bodies is supportive of my ethical framework and the health and well being of my family. If not, it is up to -me- to find a way to bring my family and the laws of the land/government into synchrony (including, if necessary, removing my household to a place where the laws and governmental behavior is more ethically compatible to the framework by which I and those I am responsible for abide).

If I am disobeying the laws, it is the mark of one with self dominion to accept censure for what one has done wrong. That is a mark of responsibility for one's actions. It doesn't mean that one will never step off-course, but that one in dominion accepts responsibility for restoring balance when such a thing has happened. If I were speeding and pulled over, I would accept a ticket, not as evidence of police dominion over me, but as the responsible repercussion of my behavior. If I did not agree with the reason for the ticket, I would not discuss it with the police officer. He is a subject of the PTB (powers that be), and, as such, it is senseless to argue the point with him... instead, I would deal with the matter in the courts of law, before my peers.

Dominion over oneself and one's household also does not apply, in any relevant way, to controlling the behavior of others (co-workers, subordinates at work, etc.). As I am free, and in dominion of my own life, so, too, do I accept and respect that others have dominion over their own life and choices OR have abdicated that dominion to another individual by mutual consent. It is a senseless individual, dominant or not, who would attempt to steal the life from one who has not yielded up that decision process.

Dominion does NOT mean bossing everyone around, nor does being dominant give one that right... OR responsibility -- and yet, being in a situation where one does not, in any given moment, have complete control of the situation also does not offset the dominion of an effective dominant, especially over the direction of one's life. Yes, it may be expedient, at a given time, to allow someone else to control a given situation, and doing so, when it is appropriate, also does not offset one's dominion over self or those one is responsible for -- in fact, it is, in my mind, a representation of one's responsibility and a point of wisdom, as one who holds dominion, to know when to let someone with greater knowledge or experience lead the way.

The thing that marks the dominant in such situations isn't whether xhe bosses everyone around hir around... but whether, in the midst of an untenable situation, xhe completely capitualtes or, instead, seeks ways to turn the situation to hir benefit and the benefit of those whom xhe is responsible for (or get all of them out of the situation if there is no way to turn it to one's benefit).

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/21/2009 3:18:33 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 93

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 2:57:28 PM

catize

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Point taken, yet I would still argue that dominion of one’s self and life is just as relevant to those of us who identify as submissive. Yes, we give authority to the one we choose to submit to, but that in itself requires all the same attributes and includes responsibilities, but from the other side.

With your definition below, then I am dominant.

quote:

The thing that marks the dominant in such situations isn't whether xhe bosses everyone around her around... but whether, in the midst of an untenable situation, xhe completely capitualtes or, instead, seeks ways to turn the situation to hir benefit and the benefit of those whom xhe is responsible for (or get all of them out of the situation if there is no way to turn it to one's benefit).

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 94

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 3:05:22 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I disagree, Prop. No one is dominant in all aspects of life, every minute of the day. Everyone faces situations where it is prudent (as S. refers to it) “to stand down.”
Does the one who owns you not submit to the laws, to the government? Does he have any authority to make the person driving in front of him move out of his way? Does he have the influence to tell people at work how to live their private lives? If he is stopped for speeding does he have the power to tell the cop not to give him a ticket?

By the same token, it is impossible to submit in all aspects of life. An example of this would be if, as a submissive every second of the day, I would allow people in line at the grocery store to go in front of me---I would never get out of the store!

I do not see self-direction as a factor only in dominance. As a submissive I too must be self directed, motivated and take responsibility for myself.
To quote what CallaFireStorm said: In such a place, a person could, conceivably, be indentured, and yet still be the master of hir own fate……

you've misunderstood my point of view. first, you are referring to behaviors/actions...someone acting dominant, or acting submissive. and in that context i agree, no one can act dominant 100% of the time in all aspects of life any more than someone can act submissive 100% of the time in all aspects of life. but there is a tremendous difference between what you do, and what you are.

when my Master is driving and a cop signals for him to pull over and he does so, he is making the choice to submit in that moment. everyday, the overwhelming majority of people make the choice to submit at specific moments, to specific people, in specific situations. this does not make everyone submissive, and this is not contrary to someone being a Dominant individual by nature. the difference between submission when it comes from a Dominant person, and submission when it comes from a submissive person, is that:

1. the Dominant person is making the conscious choice to submit, the submissive person does so more out of instinct.
2. the Dominant person submits for their own personal benefit, the submissive person does so for the benefit of others.

of course, those are my personal opinions only, just trying to give you a clearer understanding of what i mean when i refer to D/s not being limited to personal relationships.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 95

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 3:07:09 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

The thing that marks the dominant in such situations isn't whether xhe bosses everyone around her around... but whether, in the midst of an untenable situation, xhe completely capitualtes or, instead, seeks ways to turn the situation to hir benefit and the benefit of those whom xhe is responsible for (or get all of them out of the situation if there is no way to turn it to one's benefit).

Dame Calla

very well stated, and i agree that this is one hallmark of a Dominant individual.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 96

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 3:16:53 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
With your definition below, then I am dominant.

Which is exactly why I hate that statement.. "a dominant". Or, more accurately, I think it's a fool's errand to try to understand a human being by a single label. "Dominant" no more completely describes me than "father" or "submissive". They are all parts of who and what I am along with zillions of other such things.

When I'm being precise, what I say of myself is that I choose to work from a dominant mindset (the assumption that I am in control) as a default basis for pretty much any situation I find myself in. Because it is my default and most commonly held mindset, I think of myself as a "natural dominant". But that hardly means dominance is the only tool in my tool belt.

I also find times in my life when I am submissive. I would like to believe that I choose those moments with care. I would also like to believe that when I do choose to take the submissive mindset, that I do a good job at it, just like I'd expect of myself in any other situation. In short, I'd like to believe I'm a good sub and that doesn't really have anythign to do with whether I'm a good dom or not.

My own impression is that these discussions are largely a function of the somewhat ludicrous need to defend our D or s label. It is somehow heretical to suggest that someone is both dominant and submissive because.. you know.. that would mean they are not real. *shrugs* Don't get me wrong, there are some very definite differences between how Carol and I process the world. I just don't think they can be summed up into one nice neat little label.

Us humans are squirrely.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 97

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 3:46:25 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

Original: leadership527

Which is exactly why I hate that statement.. "a dominant". Or, more accurately, I think it's a fool's errand to try to understand a human being by a single label. "Dominant" no more completely describes me than "father" or "submissive". They are all parts of who and what I am along with zillions of other such things.

When I'm being precise, what I say of myself is that I choose to work from a dominant mindset (the assumption that I am in control) as a default basis for pretty much any situation I find myself in. Because it is my default and most commonly held mindset, I think of myself as a "natural dominant". But that hardly means dominance is the only tool in my tool belt.

Before I start, I have to say that this discussion has given my -much- food for thought over the last several days, and I am -much- enjoying the discourse!

That being said, this is my issue with -most- of these discussions. The polar ends of the discussion either ascribe everything or nothing to a given individual, without consideration of the nature of the person and the picture of hir overall association with existence.

In the end, every single one of us is responsible for our behavior and for the choice over how our dominion-of-self is managed. For some of us, in general, we prefer to manage our own road, including occasionally taking on responsibility for another for a time, whether that 'other' be another adult who yields management of hir life too us, or a human seedling that we have adopted into our home or allowed to come into being in our sphere of influence.

Some individuals are happiest when they yield up some or all of the dominion over their lives to another individual or individuals. In this case, the individual chooses to submit, but it is my feeling that, even among those who do submit, there must be a recognition in the mind of the individual to whom they have yielded that this is an -awesome- responsibility to take on, and it must be considered with due gravity on both sides.

On the side of those holding dominion, some take on these responsibilities without -any- thought, and then fumble and bumble and drop their responsibilities on others or the government with loose excuse. Some take on dominion not out of any -personal- desire to hold that responsibility, but because someone else (church, family, etc.) tells them that this is what they MUST do to "be a man" or follow a given god or whatever. These may be the saddest instances yet, and the most apt to end poorly, as the individual in this situation may not -only- not -want- such responsibility, xhe may actually not thrive holding it, and may drag those who depend on hir down with hir as xhe descends into hir own private hell of trying to figure out how to hold such responsibility. I don't consider -either- of these to be individuals who truly hold dominion. Some, though they may not have considered thoroughly due to youth or inexperience, take on responsibilities and then find themselves struggling -- but the responsible holder of such dominion, in an individual whose behavior marks hir as dominant, is to shoulder that ill-considered burden and do the best that xhe can to find a way to correct the imbalance and move forward in a manner that will be best for all considered. To me, the individual who will pick hirself up and shoulder hir burdens, despite having made a poor or ill-considered choice, and who learns, accepts guidance, and sets down goals and works to bring hirself and hir dependents in line with those goals, even if xhe didn't start out well, is evidence of a nature of dominion beneath.

It seems to me that the debate about what is or isn't suited to a certain label comes about more, though, for individuals attempting to define themselves, and justify their own behaviors and get other people's reinforcement in relation to how they see themselves. The terms 'dominant' and 'submissive' within the framework of a relationship only lasts as long as that relationship lasts -- To me, it is the essence of the person -beneath- the veil of the relationship that is most fascinating. I admit that it may not apply in the context of a D/s relationship, but, to me, the whole idea of dominance and submission within the context of an individual relationship boils down to "What does a dominant in a given relationship with authority-transfer do? Whatever everyone in the arrangement agree to." And, to me, that is why it is senseless to discuss what a Dominant or submissive is or does solely in the context of a given D/s relationship.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/21/2009 3:49:54 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 98

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 3:47:59 PM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

1. the Dominant person is making the conscious choice to submit, the submissive person does so more out of instinct.
2. the Dominant person submits for their own personal benefit, the submissive person does so for the benefit of others.

You are correct, Prop, I was being too literal!
You and I do, however, see things and function very differently (no surprise, I’m sure!)
Within the context of this discussion, I would say I am ‘naturally’ dominant, I make a conscious decision to be submissive in my intimate relationships.

I submit for both reasons; my own personal benefit being that it fulfills me to do so.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to daddysprop247)

Post #: 99

RE: What is it that us Dominants do? - 6/21/2009 4:07:49 PM

catize

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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We (the general we) do tend to create one-dimensional pictures of others based on how and where we know the person. Like the poem about the blind men describing an elephant, what each of them says is true, however it is incomplete.

quote:

Us humans are squirrely.

I will gnaw an acorn while I think about this topic!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to leadership527)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: What is it that us Dominants do?

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