RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics

RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 3:44:17 PM)
DomImus, I didn't know if it was somehow related. But i guess its not huh? lol Thanks for clarifying. angel

rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 3:49:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Let me ask you this -- would it not have gotten the patient on the road a lot faster if the people would have just cooperated instead of fighting with the cop? Instead everyone sat around arguing and pushing and shoving, calling names, and saying don't you talk to so and so like that. There were three ambulance guys right? Why didn't one of them get on the radio and explain what was happening and get someone to contact the officer? That is my point kinda -- if people cooperate instead of fight -- things may be resolved differently. angel Again, why was an emergency vehicle pulled over in the first place? And why was the fact they were transporting a patient completely overlooked by the officer? As I recall from the video, the lead EMT asked if they could continue to the hospital and resolve the matter after dropping off the patient.

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 3:53:50 PM)
Why did it PULL over in the first place? I mean most ambulances have radios that not only go to the hospital but also 911, so why would an ambulance pull over instead of finding out what the cop wanted prior to doing so? A civilian yes i can see them pulling over -- an ambulance in full emergency mode -- no. You are acting like i am saying this cop acted correctly -- let's see NO i am not never even implied it. I am all for his ass being fired if it comes out what was on the dash cam is the story. I am wondering why he passed the ambulance, then pulled into a gas station and then went back out after it. I fully agree the patient should have been dropped off and then the issue discussed, hell i am one closer i don't believe the ambulance should have pulled over in the first place but gotten on the damn radio and found out what was up. However, i sure the hell hope all EMT's don't get all distrustful of ALL cops now because they actually do rely on one another in situations. This incident doesn't mean all cops treat EMT's like this. angel

Lorr47 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:00:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Street lawyer on the side of the road? Who exactly did that? I think in your tireless efforts to attack the original poster you have lost sight of what the story was about. First, why was an emergency vehicle transporting a patient pulled over to begin with? Second, if there was a valid reason, which I have yet to see stated anywhere, why was the patient not made the first priority? Just as angel has said before, this issue spans far beyond just this post. Read them all, then you will know. I'm not re-typing them all for each new person. The two of you are just on opposite sides of the coin. You want to assume that a cop is the good guy until the contrary is shown. Slaveboy wants to assume that a cop is dangerous until the contrary is shown. Slaveboy is on safer ground especially since I believe he has to be street wise. I have a friend. He is a hell of a guy; a he man. He is a hell of a x Marine. We went deer hunting together; road motorcycle together. His wife sued for divorce. The wife's female lawyer specialized in antagonizing the male partner. After they took a swing at my friend's cottage that he had purchased before marriage, my friend went downtown and went into his wife's office. And, he shot her dead. He also shot at the police officers who arrived within seconds (I believe that he wanted the officers to kill him since he does not miss at that range.) Oh, did I forget to tell you that he was a Grand Rapids Police Officer; that he shot his wife in the Hall of Justice (Police/Courthouse); that she was shot dead in her office; in her chambers. Yes, she was a district court judge. They did bulk up security at the courthouse. However, we pointed out that all the bullet holes in the courtrooms and chambers in the building were fired by police officers from time to time. Police officers can go anywhere in the building armed. What will get your knickers in a real bind is that the the jury did not convict him of 1st or second degree murder. He got life because he fired on his fellow police officers. When Ratliff and Irons got married, my partner said one would kill the other. Per usual he was right. Ratliff is still my friend. Irons would have made a fine Circuit Court Judge. Do I trust the police? No. Never. Under no circumstances. Do I mouth off to them? I still have all my teeth; res ipsa locquitur. If you persist in not being street wise borrow a pair of red shoes and follow Dorothy up the yellow brick road. If I had to choose your way of thinking or Slaveboy's way of thinking, I would chose his just for preservation sake. I realize that I am jaded but to criticize Slaveboy this much is revolting.

rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:06:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Why did it PULL over in the first place? I mean most ambulances have radios that not only go to the hospital but also 911, so why would an ambulance pull over instead of finding out what the cop wanted? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason the cop was upset was the fact the ambulance did not pull over in the first place? quote: You are acting like i am saying this cop acted correctly -- let's see NO i am not never even implied it. I am all for his ass being fired if it comes out what was on the dash cam is the story. I am wondering why he passed the ambulance, then pulled into a gas station and then went back out after it. I fully agree the patient should have been dropped off and then the issue discussed, hell i am one closer i don't believe the ambulance should have pulled over in the first place but gotten on the damn radio and found out what was up. angel Then that begs the question of why you have turned this into making it seem as if anyone who sees this as inappropriate and very possibly illegal conduct somehow hates police in general.

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:13:39 PM)
Lorr47, maybe you are correct based on opposite sides of the coin idea, but to me, we have to give the benefit of the doubt to cops, otherwise they shouldn't be required to put their lives in the lines for people who could care less about THEIR safety in attempting to keep the public safe as well as enforce the laws of our society. To say its okay to fight and make cops jobs difficult and then turn around and cry false cop action without putting SOME responsibility on the other party is riduclous. I don't trust ALL cops, if i am alone in the car on a road, i don't pull over by myself -- i put on my hazards, i call into 911 and i find a public place to pull into. But i don't pull over and pull a gun on the cop as he approaches my car, i don't get out of my car and start towards him, i don't get uncooperative. I don't advocate people using not liking cops of BS of oh some cops are bad to put LIVES in danger and that's what the mentality is. You can distrust cops without fighting them when you are being arrested, without making an arrest difficult, without making a huge altercation if pulled over or being arrested for whatever. Sorry your story is a sad one but i fail to see how that is a huge generalization of ALL cops as many try and use it for. Do you trust anyone at all? Because you do realize there are PEOPLE who kill each other daily in domestic disputes, there are people who cause harm to kids and old people and average every day citizens. So why only single out cops for your distrust and generalization. By your logic and others logic no one should every trust anyone because everyone has to generalize about all kinds of people based on what other people do as well people. angel

Loki45 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:17:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 The two of you are just on opposite sides of the coin. You want to assume that a cop is the good guy until the contrary is shown. Slaveboy wants to assume that a cop is dangerous until the contrary is shown. Slaveboy is on safer ground especially since I believe he has to be street wise. Why is it we cannot let cops be innocent (good guys) until proven guilty, yet we demand that assumption for ordinary citizens? Furthermore, if you're so "streetwise" as you put it, then if you do assume the cop is bad from the get-go, why would you NOT comply with his instructions? In this and a few other threads, the OP mentions his "knowing his rights" etc etc. I think anyone who has watched one episode of Cops knows that things don't usually turn out well for the guy proclaiming he "knows his rights" on the side of the road. quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 I have a friend. ... So, I'm assuming you're trying to indicate that your friend's big incident was just because he was a cop? Sounds like he was a nut. Nuts fall through the cracks in every profession. Warehouse workers snap and kill people at work, that's nothing new. Cops are just as human as warehouse workers are, are they not? Sometimes the stressors that would cause someone to snap don't occur until later in life. That means the guy next to you at work could be evaluated today and be peachy keen and then a year from now could snap and kill half the office. The same is true for cops. Perhaps they go through their rigorous testing and psych evals and nothing comes to light, then 20 years later after seeing the horrors of the job, they snap. You simply can't predict that. quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 What will get your knickers in a real bind is that the the jury did not convict him of 1st or second degree murder. He got life because he fired on his fellow police officers. No, what actually gets my "knickers in a bind" is a preacher's wife who can shoot him point-blank with a shotgun while he's sleeping and not only does she only do 6 DAYS for it, but she gets her kids back as well. But that's an entirely different thread. I'm WELL aware of the evil, manipulative things that women can and in fact are encouraged to do during divorce proceedings, so it's no surprise to me at all when a guy snaps over it. I've seen websites detailing that some women's lawyers will even encourage their clients to allege the guy has 'done something' to her or the children to ensure he never gets custody. But again, that's an entirely different thread. quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 Do I trust the police? No. Never. Having been through a CHL class, I know there are definitely times when you should not. In my class the instructor told us that should we have to defend ourselves, when the cops come, say "I felt my life was in danger, I shot to stop the aggressive action. My lawyer is on his way." And nothing more. He said they will try and be your buddy "Hey, I understand, you did what you had to do. Can I just get your statement, we don't need to wait for the lawyer, it's all standard." And then later, you're talking to a prosecutor. So no, they shouldn't be trusted in every circumstance. However, by the same token, you should not pull over on the side of the road and expect to get a beat down when you comply with instructions. There's the key word -- COMPLY with instructions. If you already don't trust the cops, why would you, as they say in cop shows "give them an excuse." Why would you not be Mr. Polite during the stop and let your lawyer do the talking later? I can tell you that's exactly what I did when jerked out of my car for the oh-so-horric crime of relaying my intent to defend myself in court. I was pulled out, my hands held behind me and I was searched. I kept my yap shut at that point. I answered yes sir or no sir and soon after, I was on my way with a triple citation ticket.....rather than on my way to jail. And you know what happened when my lawyer showed up to discuss it on my behalf? Nothing. He called my name, I said "yes?" And he said "your case has been dismissed, you're free to go." I have no marks from my altercation, no broken bones, no taser burns. I shut my yap and that was it. I consider myself very streetwise. But my version of street wise ends with me going home after a traffic stop instead of to jail with broken bones or taser marks.

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:18:09 PM)
quote: Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the reason the cop was upset was the fact the ambulance did not pull over in the first place? The point i am making is WHY DID IT. Did it radio in and they said pull over, did they not even let anyone know a cop kept coming up around it with lights and sirens? I don't get why it would pull over in either instances he was there. Until they reached the Hospital and then dealt with the situation. I mean it would go something like this i would imagine -- ambulance didn't pull over, cop keeps chasing it and radios it in for back up with a run away suspect, someone says hey dingbat its carrying a passenger back off. rulemylife umm no that is not what i have stated in this and other thread - perhaps you need to go back and read what i said. Instead of giving meanings that in no way is what i have stated. I don't think ANY situation should be used to generalize against cops as a whole. I fully believe the OP posted this to validate his generalizing of cops being bad. THAT was my statement with regard to the OP posting. IF people use this to GENERALIZE against all cops i damn will well say they are wrong to do so. IF you don't generalize against all cops based on the incident lol then my statements don't apply to you. If you do generalize then they do. Clear enough? angel

rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:39:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 No, but the nature of your posts suggest you haven't. I haven't followed it because I don't agree with your version? quote: No, what I have done is followed the path of the discussion. Rather than post the original post of this thread in the previous one, he chose to make a new one, thus extending the original topic beyond the original thread. It happens all the time and does not equate a hijack. Well, if you are defining the original topic as being the incident in Oklahoma then I must have missed the other posts on it. Instead, you appear to be trying to define the topic as not valid in itself but posted only to bolster the original poster's biases. Which truly doesn't seem to be the case since this was on every national news channel. quote: There are many reasons that an ambulance may be used for transport and not all of them are dire emergencies. To assume it's an emergency just because it was an ambulance is faulty. The lights weren't even on the thing. If responding to an emergency, an ambulance must have its lights on. That may be true, but it is also true that if an ambulance is needed for transport then you have someone who is very ill, not necessarily in a life-threatening situation, but someone who does not need the stress of the transportation to be prolonged and aggravated. I also haven't seen where any attempt was made by the officers to determine the patient's situation. And I have yet to see any reason why the ambulance was being pulled over to begin with.

Lorr47 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:45:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Lorr47, maybe you are correct based on opposite sides of the coin idea, but to me, we have to give the benefit of the doubt to cops, otherwise they shouldn't be required to put their lives in the lines for people who could care less about THEIR safety in attempting to keep the public safe as well as enforce the laws of our society. To say its okay to fight and make cops jobs difficult and then turn around and cry false cop action without putting SOME responsibility on the other party is riduclous. I don't trust ALL cops, if i am alone in the car on a road, i don't pull over by myself -- i put on my hazards, i call into 911 and i find a public place to pull into. But i don't pull over and pull a gun on the cop as he approaches my car, i don't get out of my car and start towards him, i don't get uncooperative. I don't advocate people using not liking cops of BS of oh some cops are bad to put LIVES in danger and that's what the mentality is. You can distrust cops without fighting them when you are being arrested, without making an arrest difficult, without making a huge altercation if pulled over or being arrested for whatever. Sorry your story is a sad one but i fail to see how that is a huge generalization of ALL cops as many try and use it for. Do you trust anyone at all? Because you do realize there are PEOPLE who kill each other daily in domestic disputes, there are people who cause harm to kids and old people and average every day citizens. So why only single out cops for your distrust and generalization. By your logic and others logic no one should every trust anyone because everyone has to generalize about all kinds of people based on what other people do as well people. angel You are assuming facts not in evidence. I do not in fact trust anyone. However, to say my mistrust of people in general and cops in particular somehow translates into hindering the police is a non sequitur (sic). By the same token I do not mess with rattlesnakes just to see if they are going to strike. My mother died under very strange circumstances. My father announced his intention to remarry a certain person four days after she died. A grand jury was convened by a circuit judge and I did not even know it. I finally asked my father if he killed my mother. He said that he would tell me after he died. When he died the hearse went in the wrong direction from the church. He had made arrangements to be buried in a cemetery twenty miles from where my mother was buried; twenty miles from the family burial plots. Yep, he was a cop. He was also a war hero; and provided society with many years of good service. We did straighten things out though. I told him that if he married less than four months from when my mother died, I would shoot him and his lady friend. He waited.

rulemylife -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:47:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 Why is it we cannot let cops be innocent (good guys) until proven guilty, yet we demand that assumption for ordinary citizens? This is no different than anyone else caught on tape. But you're trying to take it a step further and imply that because they are cops they are good guys.

Loki45 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I haven't followed it because I don't agree with your version? No. You haven't followed because you don't fully understand "my version" and are reading the wrong things into it. quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Well, if you are defining the original topic as being the incident in Oklahoma then I must have missed the other posts on it. Instead, you appear to be trying to define the topic as not valid in itself but posted only to bolster the original poster's biases. Which truly doesn't seem to be the case since this was on every national news channel. Actually I used the acronym OP which means original poster, not original topic. The OP is the one from the other threads who is continuing his stance in this thread as though he had some "gotcha" proof that "all cops are bad." quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife That may be true, but it is also true that if an ambulance is needed for transport then you have someone who is very ill, not necessarily in a life-threatening situation, but someone who does not need the stress of the transportation to be prolonged and aggravated. Exactly. Which is why every party involved was in some way wrong. Clearly the paramedics could have removed their addition to the stress by calmly pulling over and seeing what the cop wanted. Clearly the cop could have been less of a dick. None of it had to happen but the fault in that video doesn't rest solely with the cops. Because if you watched the video to its end, you would see that it's really only one 'dick' cop. The rest are trying to keep the peace. They don't even arrest the guy. They pull his buddy off him. One calmly escorts the family member back to his car saying "everyone just relax."

Loki45 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:53:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife This is no different than anyone else caught on tape. But you're trying to take it a step further and imply that because they are cops they are good guys. No, actually I'm not. I've said that cop was a dick and wrong from the get-go. Once again, you don't fully understand "my version" and are reading things into it. I'm saying that the ONE cop in that video that is a dick, does not make ALL cops dicks and "wrong."

Irishknight -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:57:45 PM)
Rule, is it possible that it is both a valid topic and posted to bolster the op's bias? I believe that we should treat cops as innocent until proven guilty. Apparently, these guys were out of control and need to find another line of work. Guilt or innocence is a judgement that should be made after the facts are in, not before as so many did with the granny tasering guy. I think that there is a middle ground between being a cop groupie and a cop hater. You won't generally see me getting beligerant with a cop but you also won't see me dropping to the side of the road and sucking him off either.

Lorr47 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 4:59:47 PM)
quote: Having been through a CHL class, I know there are definitely times when you should not. In my class the instructor told us that should we have to defend ourselves, when the cops come, say "I felt my life was in danger, I shot to stop the aggressive action. My lawyer is on his way." And nothing more. He said they will try and be your buddy "Hey, I understand, you did what you had to do. Can I just get your statement, we don't need to wait for the lawyer, it's all standard." And then later, you're talking to a prosecutor. If you are street wise, you would know that you never talk to a cop about the circumstances of any encounter. Cops love motor mouths. I have never had an argument with a cop on the street. You are also somehow jumping from my distrust/dislike of cops to assuming I argue with them. To argue with them assumes that I would talk to them during a street encounter. I do not believe that I will ever be that foolish.

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 5:01:28 PM)
rulemylife --- you are generalizing and utilizing the fact that cops have acted like criminals to generalize ALL people. You also use the concept that cops are rattlers and they may well be a simple gardner. Seems to me, you generalize based on your stories. I am sorry you had such bad views of cops but ya know, i know a cop who died in the line of duty -- shot by suspects they were chasing. This man in no way deserves to be generalized with people like your father or the other bad cop stories. If you don't generalize ALL HUSBANDS being bad (since your father was a husband) -- then you shouldn't generalize all cops are bad because of what your father said he did. If you don't generalize ALL MEN (since your father was a Man) as being bad then you shouldnt with cops, if you don't generalize all FATHERS as being bad (since your own father was well a father) then it makes no logical sense you would use this to simply generalize his behavior towards ALL cops. If you are going to generalize cops and their actions -- you have to generalize ALL people based on the actions of individuals. Which would mean you believe all people lie, all people then believe you lie, which means all people don't have honor, which means you have no honor etc etc for integrity, trust, etc. If you don't use these specific incidents to generalize all aspects of what your father was - then why only do so for cops? Do do you really believe all Husbands are murders, and all Men are etc etc etc? Let me ask you this -- have you ever responded to someone saying on these boards all male slaves are weak and have no integrity because of A, B, and C, and stated they shouldn't generalize? Or in any way ever stated to someone they shouldn't generalize based upon Doms or Masters or male slaves or sub etc? I don't know if you have only you do. angel

Loki45 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 5:05:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 If you are street wise, you would know that you never talk to a cop about the circumstances of any encounter. Cops love motor mouths. I believe I just said that. quote: ORIGINAL: Lorr47 I have never had an argument with a cop on the street. You are also somehow jumping from my distrust/dislike of cops to assuming I argue with them. To argue with them assumes that I would talk to them during a street encounter. I do not believe that I will ever be that foolish. But your taking the OP's side does indicate that as he has, in many threads and posts, indicated that the cops have no authority over him and he would not comply. Not complying with a cop's instructions is what leads to the little ditty in my signature.

Loki45 -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 5:06:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Rule, is it possible that it is both a valid topic and posted to bolster the op's bias? I believe that we should treat cops as innocent until proven guilty. Apparently, these guys were out of control and need to find another line of work. Guilt or innocence is a judgement that should be made after the facts are in, not before as so many did with the granny tasering guy. I think that there is a middle ground between being a cop groupie and a cop hater. You won't generally see me getting beligerant with a cop but you also won't see me dropping to the side of the road and sucking him off either. Well said. I like to think I walk that middle-road fairly well. I've watched some dash cam videos and said "dumbass.....why didn't he just listen to the cop" and then I've seen some videos and said "Well, that cop's fired."

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 5:19:19 PM)
Good excuse. quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel What Orion wasn't i accomodating in what you really wanted me to respond too? You mean you didn't want me to read and see your personal attack at the beginning of your post and respond? My bad. Maybe next time i will read to the end where your substantive discussion is. angel

barelynangel -> RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics (6/14/2009 5:26:03 PM)
Orion give it up as you can see most of us have moved on instead of continuing silliness and childish BS. It time to move on if you are capable. I will even give you this much -- if you post your SUBSTANTIVE comment again without all the childishness of attacking me, i may even read and comment on it. There you have an out wherein you can discuss --- the choice however, is of course yours. You can keep directing non-substantial childishness towards me, or you can discuss. angel

Page: << < prev 7 8 [9] 10 11 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875