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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 9:22:56 AM   
Eamane


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/11/2009
Status: offline 		Coming from the other side...I was raped when I was 15. I didn't fight, I didn't struggle, I didn't say no- but I knew very well that it was rape, and thought had I done any of those things I would have ended up hurt very badly. I never reported the assult, and I continued to see the boy for another 3 years. Obviously it wasn't healthy, but I felt I couldn't leave and I couldn't tell anyone. It was years before I could even tell the boy in question how I felt about it.

I'm not saying that your situation is even kind of similar, but it is a different prespective and your story rang bells in my head. If she felt she couldn't say no because she was afraid, the act is still rape. Personally I feel the way she phrased it makes it sound like she was just trying to stir up trouble though, and it's doubtful anything will com eof it.

(in reply to antipode)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 12:41:51 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

and it's doubtful anything will com eof it.



I hear you... but every since the date rape laws were changed, during the Clinton administration, there have been cases of women trying to take advantage of them, from the girl needing to explain her overnight absence, to the jilted lover. So the knife cuts both ways, these days - and if I found someone spreading the word that I raped her, I would have her in court in no time, it is the only way one has to defend oneself.

(in reply to Eamane)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 12:48:42 PM   
JuliaGreenleaf


Posts: 66
Joined: 4/15/2009
Status: offline 		It is nice to see people referring to the trans woman in this case as a she. That is essential to me, even if someone is a complete idiot. It doesn't invalidate who they are - that's just insulting to ALL trans. It's just that they are an idiot..

I've known transwomen who've been raped. It's depressing - a lot of people think we are some how 'easy' or more exploitable, and some of us, including me, spend a lot of time with our appearance. Someone just walked into my appartment a week ago behind me ! - it was kind of scary. I looked at him sternly and told him to leave. Thankfully it worked.

I think in this case it is not rape though. It is low grade drama,and just makes life more difficult for everyone. I've been involved in situation where something someone did during play was overwhelming to me, and went past my preestablished limits. I generally have been ok with this - all the people involved used precautions and afterwards I could clearly see that I was just fine.

(in reply to antipode)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 7:29:19 PM   
gangviolation


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2009
Status: offline 		i dont know if this advice will help you, but it might help someone else. if i girl is putting ad up and saying she likes rape scenes or forced play thats all the proof you will need., or send her erotic text or voice mails or emails where she will reply that she is into that kind of thing. some men have the women sign a contract, but thats shaky.
hope this helps some.
girls who do things like that make it very hard for girls like me who truly enjoy rape scenes 

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 7:31:53 PM   
gangviolation


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2009
Status: offline 		off the subject, but can anyone tell me how that vanilla ice cream cone got on my profile and how on earth i can get rid of it

(in reply to Eamane)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 7:51:57 PM   
Sybilla


Posts: 24
Joined: 6/6/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticOtaku

I hadn't made it clear in my OP the gender of my partner and I so ...  I just mainly posted b/c it was driving me crazy... shouldn't I 'know' if I had raped someone?  Really, it just seems like it was just a fine-line/ communication problem.  It just hurt and confused me.  I told my partner that if she thinks I'm abusive or a rapist, then she shouldn't be with me.


This helps me understand your situation better, but some parts are still unclear.

Were you aware at the time that she did not want you to proceed?

If you were, did your relationship at the time include an understanding that she did not have authority of her body?  (This would not change the fact that legally and logically speaking you did rape her, but I think it would make a difference from a point of personal ethics)

You've been clear that she's told you she feels she was raped.  Has she told you that she intends to take legal action?

If I were accused of rape, it would upset me and if the accusation came from a person I cared for it would upset me terribly - and that's not to mention the threat of legalities.  I don't blame you.

I don't know if this is of help to you, but I can tell you that when I was around 24 years old, the man I lived with raped me.  Had it happened to any other person I would have seen it for what it was then and there, but it took some years for me to accept the idea that the man I loved (and I knew loved me) got mad and raped me.  The idea was just too painful and I didn't come round to it until long after we'd split.  We're still friendly all these years later and I will always love him, but it still makes me angry to think on it.  That may be because we never did have much dialogue on it, but I couldn't say so with certainty.

Emotions and as you say, communication can complicate matters.


(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 9:42:35 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings ganviolation....

The Vanilla Cone is the first level of posting. The only way to get rid of it is to post a lot. Then you change to the various other symbols.

Be well....

Malkinius


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(in reply to gangviolation)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/20/2009 11:32:39 PM   
gangviolation


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/17/2009
Status: offline 		hello

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/21/2009 4:42:18 AM   
KateyCaine


Posts: 274
Joined: 5/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuixoticOtaku

So the relationship has troubles, and is changing for the worse... we're nearly breaking up... then she says...

"Do you remember that time you woke me up by having intercourse with me? It wasn't something I wanted to do.  I told a friend about it and she said that you raped me."

Okay.... if it was 'rape':
1) Shouldn't she have called me on it, dumped me, or even moved out?  Why introduce me as her girlfriend to her family and friends months later?

2) Shouldn't she have notified the police of this heinous crime?

I have a feeling that male dominants experience female subs crying rape aka sour grapes more often that Dominant women.  One never hears of a man telling a female dominant that he felt raped and powerless months after the incident.

Okay so waking her up with sex was a poor judgment call and upset her... so why doesn't she tell me before she tells her friend and this is months later that I'm hearing that I had violated her trust?????



OMG...... this is rather shocking and could easily cause a person in your position to beat themselves up and feel like some sort of monster.  That is a very good question : why would she wait months before saying anything? That doesn't make sense to me at all, and to only say this now when you are on the verge of breaking up. This makes me wonder if she had been saving this up for when and if she might feel slighted by you. Definitely apologise and let her know that it was not your intention to make her feel forced in any way.

Facing allegations like this can be scary and soul-destroying, espcially if you are the sort of person who would rather die than intentionally hurt anyone.

k


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(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/26/2009 2:32:27 AM   
Silkendream


Posts: 65
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline 		It was rape.  It was non-consensual - how could you even think it was ok to do?

(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/26/2009 2:38:22 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silkendream

It was rape.  It was non-consensual - how could you even think it was ok to do?



Maybe because consent is more ambiguous than people act like it is? Maybe because plenty of people find it hot to be woken up via sex? Maybe because someone could do the exact same thing to two different girls, and have one girl complain that "s/he's just not aggressive or forceful enough" while the other complains "s/he raped me!"?

Yeah, there are some moral black-and-whites, but there's also a huge amount of grey, and this is pretty clearly on the "light grey" side of things. Getting all holier-than-thou on the OP is pretty bullshit, from several angles.


(in reply to Silkendream)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/26/2009 5:24:26 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline 		My ex roommate got a brand on his back from his Mistress. At the time he bragged about it and showed it off to several people.  About 2 months after they had split up, he started telling people that he hadn't consented to it and had no idea what she was going to do to him. It really sucks that there are assholes like this out there and that is why I try to be very careful who I put my trust in.

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(in reply to QuixoticOtaku)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/26/2009 3:49:13 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I may have misread the op, didn't read the follow up posts but the original post doesn't say that she thought it was rape, but that her vanilla girlfriend considered it to be rape. Well yeah, if you don't have an agreement saying he can have sex whenever he wants, then it is rape. If the sub didn't feel able to explain it to the vanilla friend, that's a problem the sub needs to deal with. Namely why is she having for friends people she can't be honest with, or why knowing the person doesn't know it's a d/s relationship she told her about it in a way that she must have known would horrify the friend.

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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/26/2009 10:21:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		just an odd, rare thought.

she made no objection at the time. did she get off? did she go off? it would be like saying a man raped his wife for waking her up by sliding his cock into her. ummm.... will take a bit more than that, lol... any such notion as implied consent until its withdrawn again?

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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/27/2009 11:49:25 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

just an odd, rare thought.

she made no objection at the time. did she get off? did she go off? it would be like saying a man raped his wife for waking her up by sliding his cock into her. ummm.... will take a bit more than that, lol... any such notion as implied consent until its withdrawn again?


Actually if they haven't discussed and she hasn't agreed to him taking sex whenever he wants, then married or not it is rape. And subject to prosecution.

Consent must exist for it to be acceptable.

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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/27/2009 2:43:44 PM   
avalonbear


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/15/2009
Status: offline 		Back about ten years ago My wife and I were attending "house party's about every weekend. (We are both bi and poly)   and at the time we were into the swing lifestyle. We both had hooked up with others in relationships. One young lady and I had been in a relationship for several months, she was living with another woman in a relationship. They both wanted to have a child and I was more than willing to be the sperm donor. I was working near there shared home and would stop by during my lunch hours and say hello and on many days we would get involved sexually.
Some old friends came back into town and started coming to the house party's and befriended the young woman I was involved with and her lover/mate. I had no problem with this up until one evening after a party I received a call from one other that was at the party.
They ask me what I had said and done at the party to the young woman. I was at a loss. the whole evening she and I just talked and nothing sexual had happened between us. I did at one point making a joke drop to my knee's and fake beg her to have sex with me. But to here what others were saying I had forced her into the bed room and raped her.  It seems that the Old friends had questioned her about the begging and her being drunk talked her into believing that I was going to rape her.
Years prior she had been raped and wile being drunk she remembered the rape because of there questioning had a flash back. but this time I was the male subject.
This caused allot of problems between My wife and I and the group of friends that were regulars at the party's. So much that most we dropped as friends.
Years later she and her lover broke up and the truth came out about how the old friends had talked her into believing that I was a sexual predator out to rape her if she rejected my advances.
That tho was way to late because the damage to my reputation was done and dug in deep in the local swinging community.
I have hard limits because I was raped, If the Girl or guy says no or stop. the breaks lock up quick. Even before I was raped I had those limits .


(in reply to flamingpuppets)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 6/28/2009 9:12:47 AM   
Alphascendant


Posts: 285
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

To me, it sounds like, somewhere in there, there is a need to justify the failure of the relationship and find some reason to lay blame for the pain of the ending -- and the more reasons one can find to lay blame or to get other people to vilify this individual, the easier it is to justify ones own part in the breakdown of the relationship.

Dame Calla


That describes all of my exes.

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 7/18/2009 8:36:14 AM   
Silkendream


Posts: 65
Joined: 10/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Maybe because consent is more ambiguous than people act like it is? Maybe because plenty of people find it hot to be woken up via sex? Maybe because someone could do the exact same thing to two different girls, and have one girl complain that "s/he's just not aggressive or forceful enough" while the other complains "s/he raped me!"?




Exactly, and until you find out whether she agrees with me rather than you, why take the risk?

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
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RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 7/18/2009 10:55:01 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I was hoping this had been bumped for some meaningful input.  Hell, I'll give it a go.  For those of you who say you know you were raped, but you never indicated you did not consent, you were not incapacitated, etc., how do you call that rape?  What happened so that you call it that?  I'm genuinely trying to understand, I'm not trying to attack anyone.  If the other person has reason to believe you consented (due to prior experiences together, due to your participation, due to WHATEVER), and you didn't withdraw consent in any way, how is that rape? 

As in the person who is woken up by sex, your consent stands until you withdraw it... how is that rape in any way if you don't withdraw consent?  Knowing in your head that you didn't want it isn't enough.  Well, not the way I understand it, anyway.

If anyone needs a definition of rape, here is a good page that discusses the evolution of the legal definition of rape:  http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Rape 

Cali


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(in reply to Silkendream)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Ever have a sub cry "rape" months later? - 7/18/2009 2:41:46 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Don't get involved with people who are unstable / emotionally immature / neurotic / fucked up in the head.  If you know they have serious "issues" stay the fuck away.  Don't try to rescue them, fix them, or be the rock that they can anchor themselves to.  You will rapidly discover that it is less than a thankless jesture.  It will likely as not come back to bite you in as many ways as you can imagine.  That is the only reliable way to avoid the problem you are describing and continue to engage in the kinds of lifestyles that are discussed on this board.

Did you rape him/her?  Maybe.  In many jurisdictions the rapee doesn't even have to say no.  It's enough that they would have said no, but they felt intimidated into going along.  That doesn't square so well with lifestyles where you have a powerful/dominant/in charge partner, and a submissive partner who is expected to be obedient, and might even be punished if they aren't.  It's not something you want to be trying to explain to a judge.  At all.  So, if you get involved with someone who is confused enough to turn on you at some point, there will be no shortage of people running to their rescue.

Take home lesson is that you need to avoid people in this life who don't have their head on straight.  Sounds like your ex doesn't.  I'm sure if you get out of this scrape without serious consequences, you'll be a little more careful next time.



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(in reply to Sybilla)
Profile   Post #: 60
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