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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 4:58:01 PM

LookieNoNookie

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Yes, I work part-time in a call center doing telephone surveys...so the next time you are about to tell the phone-survey dude to F-OFF!....remember, it might be me

ROFLMFFAO!!!!!!

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 4:59:31 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

Arpig,

Why are the voices so constantly negative?

You seem so incredibly deductive....what are your thoughts on that?

That's a good question. I have no real answer for it, but I will think about it and see what I can come up with. Right off the top of my head I would say that in a nromally functioning mind, self-preservation is foremost, so in a mind that is functioning abnormally, perhaps that primary instinct is out of whack, and that's why the voices advocate suicide so often. I realise that's kind of shacky reasoning (irrational thought and all that), but its what popped into my head right away. I'll think about it some more and see if I can come up with any insights.

I look forward to it.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 5:01:38 PM

Arpig

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quote:

So....you know when the voices are talking to you that they are not real....but they seem to be?

How do you separate that?

Whoa slow down there big fella, let me catch up

Well the reason I am sure they aren't real is because the medication that is supposed to supress hallucinations supresses them. You will note that I said I am sure, not I know. Because to be 100% honest I don't know. In fact, in the process of writing all this down, I have been thinking back over the events that lead up to today, and some of the things are such that I am beginning to wonder. I know I am newly back on meds, so I am going to put off any serious consideration of things until a few days have passed and the meds have me nice and stable, then I will revisit the idea, take a look at those things that are making me wonder, and see id they really do amount to anything, or if it is just another idea along the lines of the Vatican plot to silence me (Hey, give me cred for originality, at least its not the CIA that's after me....they are to busy hunting all the other schizos

)

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 5:20:11 PM

Arpig

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OK, further thoughts on why the voices are negative. As far as being self destructive, I believe there is a corelation between schizophrenia and low self esteem. If one has a very poor self image, then it seems to me that this is rooted in the subconcious, presumably where the voices come from as well. Thus it makes a certain amount of sense that the voices would eventually get around to reinforcing that low self-image.

Another possibility, one that accounts for the voices advocating harm to others, is again rooted in the nature of the subconcious. We all get the feeling at times when we are really down, that its just not worth it anymore, that we should just stop trying. We also all get momentary flashes of intense anger as well, wanting to punch out the guy who cuts you off and such. These thoughts are fleeting and come upon us unbidden from the subconcious mind. Now given that the subconcious is also the seat of our most primitive instincts, and our most violent ones as well, perhaps what happens with schizophrenics is that the subconcious mind is manifesting itself through the voices, giving full reign to the violent passions that normally are deeply submerged.

Not all schizos have low self esteem though ( I do to a degree, I often feel I am unworthy of affection, etc.) and it would be interesting to see a study that compared low self-esteem to suicidal voices. Again this is just anecdotal, and based on a lot of internet reading, but the general trend I see is that most voices are strongly self-destructive, and only aim their violence at others occaisionally. The same evidence also leads me to believe that most schizophrenics have low self-esteem to begin with.

Actually that might tie into the drug abuse issue as well, as I believe it has been shown that the lower ones self-esteem, the more likely one is to abuse drugs (don't quote me on that, its just what I recall from things I've read...yeah I read a lot of strange stuff on schizo-related subjects..I have an interest for some strange reason).

So, what do you think guys? Does that make any sense, or is it more irrational thinking?

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/16/2009 5:22:07 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:03:20 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

So, what do you think guys? Does that make any sense, or is it more irrational thinking?

This is going to be way off the wall, Arpig, and I'm not sure I can phrase it coherently. But I'll take a shot at it.

Are you sure that what you're describing as low self-esteem is actually low self-esteem - or is it possible that it's just a matter of schizophrenics being more introspective than most other people, more given to self-examination and less inclined to hide behind the facade of self-delusions we all erect around ourselves to make us feel braver and more "normal"? I think that most of us build our self-esteem by convincing ourselves that we're really pretty special people, that on some level at least we're at the head of the class. Could it be perhaps that schizophrenics tend to see themselves more honestly than other people, and that just looks like low self-esteem? Is that possible, or am I just way off? Maybe if we all saw ourselves as honestly as schizophrenics do, if we all looked at ourselves as objectively as schizophrenics do, we'd all feel as though maybe we weren't really all that after all.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:20:28 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Yes, I work part-time in a call center doing telephone surveys...so the next time you are about to tell the phone-survey dude to F-OFF!....remember, it might be me

Well, look at it this way... it's just another disembodied voice, telling you something negative that you know better than to listen to!

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:28:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Thanks Panda. But really there's not all that much good or brave about it (OK, I admit it was fucking scary making that 1st post). I find it very helpful to unburden myself from this. It is a liberating feeling to tel, which is why I sometimes ramble on about various details without being asked.

Here's an example of some unsolicited stuff...Samas.

OK, the Spirits have a hierarchy, they have a leader, who is called The Destroyer. He (or she) gets this title, because when they assume the leadership, they take on the portfolio of the spirit of destruction. The Destroyer can be replaced by any member of the family, but only if he is murdered by the prospective new Destroyer. When the present Destroyer, is killed, he becomes Death. Death is the ruler over a huge series of caverns in which dwell the souls of all dead people. They have no bodies, no conciousness, they simply exist aimlessly in this place. There is no difference in the afterlife based on how good or bad a person is. Death is also responsible for collecting the souls of all those who die. When a new Destroyer takes over, the newly deceased Destroyer becomes Death, and Death is reborn as a Spirit. Samas is the current Death. Now you can see why I didn't want to get into it before...and I knew you really wanted more info Panda

Yeah - yeah, that's fantastic info, Arpig. It's incredible to me, the universe your mind has created simply because it seems to lack the built-in instruction not to do so.

It's an incredible example of what the human mind is capable of, when it's left unsupervised to do what it feels like doing. And even more incredible to realize that this is the way every human mind probably works when it simply lacks the chemical that suppresses it from working that way. The universe inside your head really lives inside all of our heads; it's just dormant in most of them.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:34:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: suhlut
Also... many many years ago..when i was preg with my 20 year old daughter... i'd been about to go to sleep.. drifting along.. and had thought i was drifting off to sleep..where i suddenly found myself having a conversation..with several "children".. whom informed me that they were victims of some man.. told me they wanted me to enact out vengence for them.. that the guy needed to pay for the murders.. and told me to come with them.

I at first agreed..and drifted along.. but then i resisted.. and thats when i felt the first 'tug".. pulling me along.feeling like i had no control.. couldnt fight them all off.

i was concious but with my eyes closed lightly... but as i struggled against their "tugs" i also tried opening my eyes.. but couldnt. As i continued to struggle.. i could feel i was being pulled away deeper and deeper.. till the um inside kicked..and my eyes were able to fly open.

For that..well it was inner voices.. different and many...

Later on.. i tried finding out what might have happened.. and read of a condition called sleep paralasis.. in which things terrifing can happen..and feel consiously real.

I used to have that happen to me quite frequently, and I can honestly say that it was probably the most terrifying experience of my life. Many times - at least half the times it happened to me - I was certain that I was dying; I assumed that was the only explanation for what was happening to me. That I was dying in my sleep, and unable to move, call out, or otherwise ask for help. I fucking hated it. In fact, I fucking hated going to sleep, for fear that it would happen again that night. I don't know how, why, or exactly when I grew out of that, but I'm goddamned glad i did.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:36:54 PM

Arpig

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Wow, another good question there Panda, and one I am afraid I really am not qualified to answer. Speaking from my own experience you may not be so very far off. I have always been shy, but rather than withdrawing, I dealt with my shyness by being very extroverted, very out there in your face sort of thing. However, on the inside I was sure that people really didn't like me, and that I would never find love or true friendship.

Oddly enough, I had many friends in school, but somehow I never really trusted their motives. I always suspected that they didn't really like me and was waiting for them to pull the rug out from under me in some horrendous prank. Similarly with women, I never really lacked for female companionship in school, or afterwards really (there was even a period in grade 12 when I was dating 2 girls together, the 3 of us went on dates...unfortunatly that didn't last long enough for a 3-some

). However, I was certain that women didn't like me, and when my advances were not rebuffed I was always amazed. I also didn't really trust them that they really liked me. This put a lot of strain on my relationships, as I was mistrustful and constantly in need of reassurance. I would often find ways to test my friends' and girlfriends' sincerity, this did on a few occaisions cost me a friendship, but overall most of my friends stuck with me.

Now that I am writing this down, it becomes clear to me that the paranoia and irrational thinking that are part and parcel of schizo disorders were very much there in my teens, so I am begining to suspect that I was indeed schizophrenic at that time, I just wasn't hallucinating. It also explains my avid drug use, as during that time I still didn't think I was worth much, and I didn't believe that people actually liked me.

The people I have spoken to on the other side, and the various accounts I have managed to find online lead me to believe that many schizophrenics actively hate themselves and their lives before the symptoms present. Most had few if any friends, which will in and of itself drive a person's self-esteem even lower. My case was not that severe (though I did contemplate suicide more than once during my teens & 20s), even in my case it seems to be more than just seeing myself honestly, since in other people's eyes I was indeed worthy of friendship & love, and worthy enough that they would put up with the weirdness.

Well I hope that has somehow answered your question panda, or at least given you some food for thought.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:38:01 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Well, look at it this way... it's just another disembodied voice, telling you something negative that you know better than to listen to!

LMMFAO!!!!!!

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:39:56 PM

Arpig

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< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/16/2009 10:43:47 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:41:16 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 6/16/2009 10:43:38 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:41:53 PM

Arpig

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< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/16/2009 10:44:03 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:47:58 PM

Arpig

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quote:

Yeah - yeah, that's fantastic info, Arpig. It's incredible to me, the universe your mind has created simply because it seems to lack the built-in instruction not to do so.

It's an incredible example of what the human mind is capable of, when it's left unsupervised to do what it feels like doing. And even more incredible to realize that this is the way every human mind probably works when it simply lacks the chemical that suppresses it from working that way. The universe inside your head really lives inside all of our heads; it's just dormant in most of them.

Sorry I jumped the gun there earlier, I misinterpreted what you were saying, and upon rereading it I see what you meant. Sorry. You are right, I suspect that these sorts of things are likely there within everybody. Its is somewhat amazing that something as simple as the lack of a given chemical can do something like this.

PS You have CMail Panda

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/16/2009 10:50:33 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:50:14 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Hey, sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant there.

No need to apologize, it's bound to happen sooner or later in a thread like this. I am sorry if I worded it in such a way as to have offended you.

The way I'm looking at it is, based on my own experiences with LSD and mushrooms, the chemical imbalances don't so much cause the hallucinations and such; I think they allow them to emerge and become evident by removing the chemical filter in our brain that suppresses them. I really think hallucinations, and voices, and whatever, are the natural explorations of the brain. I think our body just developed a chemical balance that keeps them in check so that we aren't distracted by them. I can't support or substantiate that, but I feel pretty confident in it.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 6/16/2009 10:52:57 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 10:54:10 PM

Arpig

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quote:

The way I'm looking at it is, based on my own experiences with LSD and mushrooms, the chemical imbalances don't so much cause the hallucinations and such; I think they allow them to emerge and become evident by removing the chemical filter in our brain that suppresses them. I really think hallucinations, and voices, and whatever, are the natural explorations of the brain. I think our body just developed a chemical balance that keeps them in check so that we aren't distracted by them. I can't support or substantiate that, but I feel pretty confident in it.

Now that is fascinating, back in my drugged out days, that is what I basically told people, that drugs would set their true minds free. Yeah I was a bit of a prostelyte for Timothy Leary. In retrospect, though, the hallucinations from each drug are different, so that sort of puts a damper on that idea. Also I don't remember any really coherent hallucinations from any drugs except peyote. (Hmmm, maybe this bit is going to get the thread pulled...please Mods if you must, just delete these particular posts and leave the thread)

Edited to add: The more I think about it, the more I am unsure. Just because my auditory hallucinations are vivid and structured, it does not mean that they would be visually. It is erroneous to just assume (as I was doing) that i would visualise my world.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 6/16/2009 10:56:56 PM >

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 11:10:48 PM

Arpig

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You have another CMail Panda

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 11:14:01 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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As do you, sir!

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/16/2009 11:30:37 PM

Arpig

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As you know, I am writing this stuff all down, and trying to get it organised into a coherent whole. Well I am finding that all of your comments and questions are leading me to a deeper understanding of myself. In answering your various questions I have had to look back into my past and there I have seen things, things that point to an early onset of this disorder, it was just the voices that had not presented, but the peranoia and irrational thinking, as well as the self-destructive tendencies were all there in my teens. It began somewhere in grade 7, partway through the year I stopped being the happy kid I had been and for no apparent reason I started to withdraw. This process of withdrawal combined with driving away people, and general weird behaviour that puts people off started then, and has continued right through to today. While the withdrawal/driving away of people is not specifically listedas a symptom of schizophrenia, from all the accounts I have read, it is pretty much universal. Another thing I have determined from my readings (which have increased ten-fold since starting this thread...again in an attempt to answer your questions with a little more authority, to make sure I am not making generalisations based on my own experience where it is not warented) is that my case is actually quite mild when it comes to the paranoia and irrationality, my voices, however are much more vivid and involved than most. That's a trade off I am happy with

Whenever I do finish my story, I will let you all know where I post it, or manage to get it published. But I suspect from the way this thread is going, most of you will know all the details by then, because as GQ said, it is being written on here, with your help. So keep the questions coming, they help me clarify thing to myself, both things about my illness in general, and my case in specific.

Thanks all for being so supportive, and for helping me work through this.

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RE: The voices in my head. - 6/17/2009 6:40:33 AM

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I'm a huge fan of Carl Jung. And in his book called The Development of Personality, there is written this.

"In somewhat free-handed fashion the last two lines of Goethe's stanza are often quoted:

The highest bliss on earth shall be
The joys of personality!'

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Ok ok. We can joke can we not?

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