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Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 6:42:58 AM   
CatdeMedici


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I came across the term " emotional vampire" a few years back and realized, yep there are people consciously or sub consciouly who literally suck us dry--of energy, emotions, interest etc because of their drama, neediness, requirement for validation etc.
 
Though I am sure it can apply to either side of the kneel, I speak of the submissive side--the male submissive side--I really see this alot ( and I don't think its Me..)--The need to focus on their issues, their needs, their conflicts their whatever--the time and energy required to reassure, validate--now I know each side has to find their groove, but is there not a point that it becomes WAY too one sided--way too much time soothing his public reluctance, way too much time reassuring--way too much time with someone who is supposed to be a grown man making his own decisions?
 
Or do you cut bait and rebait the hook? I'd like some insightful thoughts...

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 7:03:28 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


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Oh, and here I thought this was going to be about vampires as opposed to needy drama-kings.  I don't put up with this sort of toxic behavior.  As a vampire, it annoys me and I don't have time for it.  I don't let anyone steal my energy.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 7:03:50 AM   
Lockit


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I call them crazy makers.  The kind that make your head spin and yes you will often feel like... well picture a movie from the seventies and a certain demonic filled young lady.  There is never a solution, always a complaint, never a calm assurance, always a dramatic self induced crisis brought on by personal negect of some sort and the need to blame and cry victim.

Yes, I know the type... and I am very determined to make a wide path around them.

Life will bring trouble, crisis, pain and even victimization... we've all had days, months, years even when things might not go well for us and it takes balance to get through it, but some will not have balance enough to managae a hang nail and will make it a national crisis with the dark forces all out to get them.  The problem is, they are the dark force.  When all one can do is play victim looking for attention and not just mention a problem and get out there and do something about it or try to prevent future problems and it is a focus of most or all their converstation and you don't make a wide path around them... you will need to check for your own wounds and blood level's because they just might be a vampire and not the romantic kind that draw you to them so that they might powerfully suck you dry.  Just the kind that wimp out and need an IV hook up.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 7:12:03 AM   
chiaThePet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

literally suck us dry


Kiss and tell, kiss and tell, kiss and tell.

chia* (the pet)


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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 7:33:07 AM   
KneelforAnne


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I can only speak from my perspective, and as a caveat these are just my thoughts and experiences….(and it’s early yet for me, so it may be a little disjointed…) Also, as a note here-- I am using the word “relationship” to mean any dealings, be they emotional, physical… whatever… between two people. It doesn’t have to mean romantic and long-term.

And...

I am anti-drama. If someone brings drama into my life, then they won’t be there long. I think there are ways to seek validation and to need without being a drama queen about things. The rest of my post addresses the ideas of needing validation and being needy without being overly dramatic.

~

I have found myself becoming more needy the more I am ‘into’ someone (for lack of better term). I don’t like it very much, and sometimes I’m not sure what to do with it…but the more they get into my head the more I need them for reassurance, so perhaps this is what your submissive is experiencing? I’m not the type to get into every little thing--what socks to wear, what I should make for dinner and so forth-- but I am one that needs consistent (not constant, yet) contact and conversation.

Personally, I am rather confident in life. I do my own thing, pay my own bills, have my own stuff going on. But… when I am getting to know someone, talking with them…letting them (slowly!) in my head-- I get sucked into thinking about them, and what would make them happy, and what they would do in this situation…. It doesn’t effect my confidence in life, per se… but it effects my dealings with that person, yes.

I’m not sure I’ll ever get over the neediness, personally. I’m not sure there is a point where that is reached as I’ve never had anything work out too far beyond that…but maybe that is what he needs in order to be the best he can for you.

I understand that there comes a time where it’s more about them than about you, but maybe (?) that is the give and take in the relationship?

I have a feeling that this need and validation seeking behavior is much more common at the start of a relationship, and at some point the “groove” (as you put it :) ) should be found where each member finds their own comfort level. Maybe you just haven’t reached that yet?

If and when it becomes too one sided, if you want the focus back on you… isn’t there a way to “take” it back? Not being sarcastic in the slightest (I‘m actually really wondering the answer to this)… you are the Dominant, so can’t you just take back the attention?

There are a lot of “maybe’s” running through my head, so I’ll just list some because I think some of them could be valid….

- Maybe he likes being reluctant and having you convince him and he hasn’t clued you into that.
- Maybe he isn’t at all confident in what he does for you/ with you.
- Maybe he feels like this is a good way to get your attention.
- Maybe he’s sinking deeper into his own submission and needs this from you, but can’t or doesn’t know how to express it.
- Maybe he needs more structure from you than you currently enforce.
- Maybe you are not compatible.

I think that if you are at the point of thinking that this person is an “emotional vampire” then it’s time to end it, because you have to feel quite strongly to use those words…maybe you have already checked out.

Maybe this person is just too much, maybe they do have their own issues to sort out.

It’s absolutely valid to feel this way and it’s a fair reason to end it. However, I definitely feel that the reasons for ending the relationship should be addressed (in a positive way) so that the person can see how his drama/‘issues’ effected the outcome of his relationship, that way he sees a need to deal with them rather than just thinking it was a matter of not getting along.



**Edited because not all of it copied over from word**

< Message edited by KneelforAnne -- 6/16/2009 7:40:12 AM >


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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 7:39:32 AM   
OttersSwim


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I can certainly understand the need for confirmation and validation in a new submissive...

But I think there is a point where the drama overwhelms the dynamic - and that is where it becomes toxic.

There is a line from the movie Sideways, where one of the characters talks about the a wine where "the alcohol overwhelms the fruit", and it is an allegory for life - when drama and pain overwhelms the fruits of life, it becomes time to change your reality.

If a submissive is willing to stand in their truth, rather than their pain, then you are unlikely to come to that point of overwhelm.  If it is the opposite, then it will become obvious pretty quickly I should think.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 8:17:50 AM   
DesFIP


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Sounds like basic incompatibility to me. I tend to be a wee bit co-dependent, The Man actually likes that in a woman. So our enmeshment is fulfilling for both of us. For someone who only wanted contact a couple of times a week, we would both come across as needy. However, since our need for contact has a high level of compatibility, for us it is a good thing.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 5:51:21 PM   
SthrnCom4t


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I think there is a definite distinction between liking connection and being an emotional vampire.

To address the OP's question first. "The need to focus on their issues, their needs, their conflicts their whatever--the time and energy required to reassure, validate--now I know each side has to find their groove, but is there not a point that it becomes WAY too one sided--way too much time soothing his public reluctance, way too much time reassuring--way too much time with someone who is supposed to be a grown man making his own decisions? "

I think this is how some people have learned how to connect. It would be interesting to delve into said person's background and upbringing. What were the parents like, etc? I believe this behaviour is learned, and probably somewhere along the way (sadly), enforced in a positive manner. Previous relationships catering to the underlying needs probably occurred prior to imploding in spectacular glory.

The only way I would stay with such a person, was if I was able to point out his behaviour and have him be willing to accept feedback and WANT TO self-analyze, process and improve. I would also have to be getting something rewarding out of the time spent together.

We are all on our own journey, and I haven't met anyone "perfect" yet. I tend to love this psyche stuff, first and foremost toward discovering my own landmines and disarmoring them. As such, most of my close and long-term friends seem to share similar desires. We are each other's 'arm chair therapists' and value feedback offered.

Do you want to be the one to modify his behaviour? You'll need to be able to understand where it comes from, not attach to it, and be getting something worth the work its going to take to deal with this over the long term.

If the answer is yes, I would start with daily mantras for him. His assignments shouldn't take up a lot of your time to 'verify'. His effort for your satisfaction needs to become forefront in his mind. He'll find pleasure in your positive reinforcement, and feel secure in your affection IF he pleases you.

If he sits in his own narrow world, toss him back in the pond and re-bait the hook, there are a lot of wonderful men worth your time.

*Connection is not necessarily about needing reassurance and validation. It can just be 10 calls a day to say, "I Love You, and I'm thinking about you."

I found this website during some self analyzing time. http://www.joy2meu.com/Healthy_Relationship.htm While the page links you to the topic of Interdependent vs Codependent relationship dynamics, I actually printed out about 40 pages as I found them to be so helpful. I also found The Four Agreements, which I reference in my profile to be an easy read, and a good place to start on those healthy mantras.

Good Luck!




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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 5:55:52 PM   
Asherdelampyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

Oh, and here I thought this was going to be about vampires as opposed to needy drama-kings.  I don't put up with this sort of toxic behavior.  As a vampire, it annoys me and I don't have time for it.  I don't let anyone steal my energy.


me too

:( I is sads now

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 6:03:00 PM   
CatdeMedici


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How marvelous you are! I am only a few credits short of a second degree, this one in psychology--THIS stirred My interest again--no mater how the thread goes, thank you for a new and interesting study!

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I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/16/2009 10:44:49 PM   
frankieboy52


Posts: 91
Joined: 4/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

How marvelous you are! I am only a few credits short of a second degree, this one in psychology--THIS stirred My interest again--no mater how the thread goes, thank you for a new and interesting study!
good job...with sincerity.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 8:21:34 AM   
LadyLou


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I call them crazy makers.  The kind that make your head spin and yes you will often feel like... well picture a movie from the seventies and a certain demonic filled young lady.  There is never a solution, always a complaint, never a calm assurance, always a dramatic self induced crisis brought on by personal negect of some sort and the need to blame and cry victim.

Yes, I know the type... and I am very determined to make a wide path around them.

Life will bring trouble, crisis, pain and even victimization... we've all had days, months, years even when things might not go well for us and it takes balance to get through it, but some will not have balance enough to managae a hang nail and will make it a national crisis with the dark forces all out to get them.  The problem is, they are the dark force.  When all one can do is play victim looking for attention and not just mention a problem and get out there and do something about it or try to prevent future problems and it is a focus of most or all their converstation and you don't make a wide path around them... you will need to check for your own wounds and blood level's because they just might be a vampire and not the romantic kind that draw you to them so that they might powerfully suck you dry.  Just the kind that wimp out and need an IV hook up.









Lockit, your words resonated with me. An ex sub, and still good, but tempestuous friend unfortunately fits your description, a description that has taken me over a decade to recognise, understand and come to terms with. Lets just say, he was my (very wide) learning curve. I care very deeply for his well being, but part of my learning curve was to realise there is only so much I can do, particularly when he won't help himself and frequently indulges in self pitying malaise. Blaming everyone, but himself, for his woes; woes, that, like you highlight, generally stem from personal neglect. I haven't and wouldn't abandon him as a person and friend, but now keep this part of his personality at arms length. I don't allow myself to get sucked in. Of course, to an 'emotional vampire', that translates as neglect. But another part of my coming to terms with the situation was reconciling my own powerlessness in helping him.


To the discussion as a whole...


I don't like to demonise this behaviour though, it is not realistic to the person and situation as a whole and shirking my own responsibility in past situation. But I recognise the absolute need for someone who has a 'vampire' to one dimensionally focus on the bad, for self protection. For me, it was the first phase in getting myself out of an unhealthy situation.


Another part of the reconciliation of my past situation was understanding that the 'emotional vampire' in this case is not a bad person (far from it), it was just a fundamental incompatibility. Empathetically try to understand life from an emotional vampires shoes for a moment, there's nothing inherently bad about it, it's different styles of dealing with the emotional impact of life. It's the perfect irresponsible, blameless and selfish coping system, and completely justifies any self destructive behaviour the 'vampire' may carry out. This may be controversial, but being an emotional vampire seems to successfully work for some people – imagine going through life never feeling the pain and burden acknowledging self responsibility brings? Imagine feeling nothing is ever your fault? There have been times when I wished I lacked enough reason and empathy to behave like this. There have been times (allbeit brief times) I wish that I was fully selfish enough to be able to focus purely on my own emotional impact without taking on board the emotional well being of those I care about. There are plenty of people who are happy enough to play 'parent' (or enabler) to an emotional vampire, and completely unable to see it in those terms – are they wrong? Or is our understanding of it wrong? My emotional vampire didn't see any problem with himself, neither would most 'emotional vampires' – I was the one with the problem. I was the one who was emotionally battered and drained by the situation – not him. It was my problem.




As for neediness though; as a singular entity, I don't consider 'neediness' a bad trait at all, it certainly isn't inherently bad. A lot of negative pop psych has been attributed to this emotion, mainly cause of the fear and insecurities that neediness highlights in ones self; whether it's highlighted by their own neediness or whether they have a needy partner. I have absolutely no problem giving lots of reassurance, and seeking it myself. Again, it's an issue of compatibility. It's almost as if the modern thinking on neediness is to deny oneself; to aspire to not desire or 'need' another person on an emotionally complex interactive level, in fear that people might not see them as independent adults, or fear of rejection. I find it hard to believe the majority have no desire for emotional interaction from a romantic partner. It only becomes a problem when you desire it significantly more or less than the person you are with.


I think if one is with someone who is labelling their partner an emotional vampire, it is important to reflect as to why one is handing out that label. By reflecting, I don't just mean mulling over 'his' bad habits and how it made you feel, I mean taking on board what it is about ones own personality that was attracted to, then wanted to bolt at 'his' personality. I feel there is far more growth, and ultimately happiness, at analysing the situation ruthlessly from both sides of the coin, as opposed to playing the label-blame game.




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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 8:59:18 AM   
Lockit


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LadyLou, I agree with you very much!  I don't see need as a bad word or as a lot of other's might view it.  I've even posted about it and have something in my journal.  I have asked, why is need a bad word?  How it is defined and all that can be debated, but on some level we all need something whether it is something needed for life or a less serious something; we have needs.  I think that four letter word gets a lot more impact than it should.  I relate it to a um who needs love to thrive as well as older people who have been together a long time and one dies and often times the other will as they say, die of a broken heart.  We all need love on some level to thrive.  This is just what I believe.

I was just talking about this with my daughter a few minutes ago.  She has a friend about 21 and in the hospital having her first um.  Her mother has serious mental health issues and she is now living with her.  She has no support systems and my heart just goes out to her... kind of that mothering instinct in me and relating to her because I was a single mother for so long.. besides working with women in situations like this for so long.  I just want to be right there and do whatever I can for her.  But she is handling things very well and is facing it all and it would be support rather than enabling or taking on what she needs to do.

I feel we can help or take on what we personally can handle.  As time goes on I am less able to handle the stress of an emotionally demanding person as my health can't withstand it any longer.  So my first responsiblity is to myself and what things I have to take care of in life.  After that, I can do limited things in supporting another and must take a wide path around someone who isn't dealing with things as well as they could.  So I have had to learn or force myself to give so much and insist that it goes no further.  I can't give my all as my all has diminished, so I take a very firm stand when I have to.  My heart may go out to them and I can wish to be there, but I can't responsibly do so.

I have actually rarely labled someone a crazy maker and as I think of it can only remember three I actually felt there was no way I could deal with throughout life, but now I must take a firmer stand.  I can no longer do the day to day with them like I once did.  I need calm... lol  Excitement needs to come in fun ways!  Although I can think back fondly or even with love those that were draining... I know I can only take so much these days.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 10:03:19 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I am a very needy person myself, so I am happy to be with someone I can reflect that off of---but it has to be a two way street.  If all the energy is going OUT, and nothing is coming back to me, then I wave a cheerful good-bye, I am not capable of dealing with that kind of thing anymore.  Life throws enough REAL drama at us, I do not need to create my own, or help someone else stage their look-at-me show. 

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 10:30:54 AM   
LadyLou


Posts: 110
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Hi Lockit,


Actually, the term you used, “crazy maker”, did make me chuckle. As it rather succinctly summed up my situation. Not that he or I was necessarily a 'crazy maker' but the whole damned situation was. I was quite young when we first met, and for a few years, it was the only way of life I understood before I slowly started to realise. My heart went out to this perpetually unfortunate person who had a never ending stream of bad luck. My nurturing side, somewhat immature at that time, took over. I didn't realise at the time just what a mess it was. One lives and learns.


For about a year or so after we broke up, I seemed to be attracting this type either on a romantic or friendship level – it didn't take me long to realise I needed to nip that bit of Freudian cliché in the bud.


I relate to what you are saying about only being able to take so much. My experiences with various 'vampire' types hyper-stimulated that side of me, to the point where my tolerance of it is now nil. I'm acutely aware of the 'crazy maker' signs and now take a wide berth. My trouble is that I want to make things better; 'crazy makers' want to permanently revel in their melancholy – no good is going to come of it. Like you, I have to put my emotional health first. It's difficult, really difficult, when you care about the person. But I have to draw my line.


Anyway, I'm off to go perve your journal entry

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 10:35:03 AM   
Lockit


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LOL Yikes... that entry is like many pages in I think.  Let me see if I can find it and email it to you! lol

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 6/17/2009 6:36:51 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I call them crazy makers.  The kind that make your head spin and yes you will often feel like... well picture a movie from the seventies and a certain demonic filled young lady.  There is never a solution, always a complaint, never a calm assurance, always a dramatic self induced crisis brought on by personal negect of some sort and the need to blame and cry victim.

Yes, I know the type... and I am very determined to make a wide path around them


I just had to say that I loved your description, Lockit. I recently had an experience with an individual like this who caused me much personal anguish. She was like a big, empty black hole of insecurity and nothing was enough to fill it. No matter how much positive she was offered, she refused to see it or believe it was enough. It left me feeling as if all the energy, positivity and sanity in my life was sucked dry after a half-hour conversation. That wide path is so wise to utilize................luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 6/17/2009 6:38:24 PM >


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RE: Submissive Vampires - 1/24/2010 8:30:05 PM   
CURIOUSGURLINSRK


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Luci, I waited to respond because he thought thoght there was a chance at it working out but that is not happening. You were the insecure one. It was you, Luci, who got insecure and freaked. My doubts were because of YOU not being able to handle everything and I was right. So the big empty black hole you refer to must have been yourself. . Just be realistic with what you want and who you are. If you aren't willing then dont act like you are to him , then be cold to me and post things referring to me. I hope (I know you hate that word) you two have a wonderful life together

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 1/24/2010 8:38:22 PM   
Lockit


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Wow, curiousgurl,you sound very angry and strong on the passive aggressive. To come months later and out yourself kind of pegs you to a wall and makes you look guilty. You ought to be real proud of yourself.

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RE: Submissive Vampires - 1/24/2010 8:44:16 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
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You revived a 6+ month old thread for a personal attack?  Is there some reason, other than creating needless drama, for you to post on the boards instead of communicating through private mail?  I fail to see the logic of this.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 20
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