RE: War on Terrorism

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FangsNfeet -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 6:09:02 AM)
quote: they kill us...we kill them...they kill more of us ...and we kill more of them...where does it all end? how many more lifes must perish before it is enough? The bible predicts that the people of Palestine and the people of Isrial will continue to fight untill the end of time. The two decendents from Abraham have been fighting for how long now? And to think, it's all because one man couldn't keep his dick put away. So when will enough be enough? Hmmmm, a day when everyone wakes up, holds hands, and begin to sing like the people of Whoville like a grand Shangrala is not going to happen anytime soon. Unfortunatly, we still have to many people who want to be feared, powerfull, and controll everything. To some, that's worth anything and everything. To many are still on the Dark Side. Other than all that, if and when someone believes 110% without a shadow of a doubt that will be rewarded with riches in an after life, death does not seem so scary.

subfever -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 6:16:33 AM)
quote: by the time those idiots mobilized, a freaking WEEK later, the maid said he had already moved to the western mountain region between pak and afg. DUH!! mind you this maid had no clu any of this was coming back here or she would have clammed up. i was livid. i am still fucking livid. then once again 2 weeks to freaking late they started searching the northern mountain regions and it was shortly after that they got his main man heading west after they split up and binny did a uturn back up north. Pathetic huh? So much for assinine american efficiency! ask me if i think they will ever get him? i dont think they could find him if he was fucking tied up and blindfolded in the fucking oval office! Perhaps the reality of the situation is that Bin Laden is the best enemy that money can buy.

Real0ne -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 6:21:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren There are plenty of Rambos with overies. How tru! quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren Personally, I'd split it into three countries. After all "Iraq" isn't really a country, rather it's a bunch of lines drawn on maps in Whitehall. The Kurds would probably be staunch allies and they have extensive oil holdings. The Turks would scream bloody murder but after all they didn't support the war so they don't get a vote. The Shiite section would probably either ally itself with Iran or join that country. That's not great but really wouldn't do much to increase the power of a country that already hates us but is also getting close to a tipping point. (that's another thesis completely) and the Sunni could be supported by the Saudis. And we could walk out, flags flying. i agree with this 300%, but we arent smart enough to do that. quote: ORIGINAL: starshineowned quote: let's just bomb them and get it over with Whats the IAEA going to do? More sanctions? 10yrs worth? And when they nuke Isreal? The mentality of people there is they have no problem with blowing their own selves up to kill others. In America people that do that we deem sick, insane, crazy, whatever and should be locked up if caught before the act. starshine Happy slave of Master Delvin That is exactly right! few people here can imagine what its like there. if you own a camel you are wealthy! there is nothing there but sand. the saudi monarchy has 97% of all the money in the country hussien 80% and the rest have sand. they have nothing to live for and being a martyr for allah while fighting the infidels and going down is history as such is a great honor and he will meet allah where he will be adorned with 7 virgins at his feet!!!! That is no shit people heard from the source! and of course that little hussein kickback never hurt either! so you have a group of people with nothing to live for but to become a martyr and be a hero among their peers! i have a little different take on this than others presented here. gw junior had several reasons to go into iraq. first i am sure he was not to happy that hussien put a hit out on daddy when he went to quait. i doubt that sat to well. obviously it failed. Second and what i believe is the biggest that i do support and actually said prior to him saying on tv is that it takes the war to them! Only an idiot would fight them on our turf hand to hand among OUR civilian population. imagine trained guerillas among a bunch of politcally correct civilians. would be as funny as a cat in the mouse house. gw did the right thing by taking it over there. why? because now they are fighting trained soldiers! not US civilians in th esupermarkets and theaters!! Ponder that people!! Do you really want to live like they do in jerusalem, (which means jewel of peace) btw. woudl you really want to send a loved one to the store to get groceries and kiss them goodbye not knowing if they will be coming back because some bomber wiped them out? as long as we are there everyone that has a twist in their undies can fight the people that we trained to fight rather than civilians, let them come after the soldiers and hope they all do so we can wipe them all out on their own turf and NOT ours. i do not believe this was about oil. Canada has enough oil laying around to supply us now at our currently increasing demand levels for the nect 2oo years!! so the oil thing does not really make sense to me. i will agree that gw bit off more than he can chew in trying to tear down iraq and rebuilt it. iraq is not germany and japan. they have been hating and waring visciously since the beginning of time. they think of reasons to hate and fight not make peace. Many in this country do not understand the temperment of waring peoples. hussein was able to keep them together because he was ruthless. its called do it or i kill you and i might kill you anyway!! To think we will take a bunch of klingons and put them in a room together and expect peace is a fanatasy. do you remember all the press on how everyone was against us going in? ever ask yourself why? Because germany, france, and russia, were all buying blackmarket oil from them at a discount and violating the very sanctions that they put into place!!! france had millions tied up in oil rigs there and the only one who did not benefit was the us of course LOL Those countries didnt oppose us because they were taking the moral high road they knew they would lose their asses in the deal if we went in!!! as far as the arabs go, well we shit on them enough that they no longer trusted us to follow thru if we went into iraq. so no support there either!! so it is imperative that we stick this out at any cost to save face with the world! we knew that going in. now finally imagine a "somewhat" stable iraq which is all it could ever hope to be in my lifetime. iraq like isreal as a democracy! imagine that. selling oil with money actually getting better distributed. ponder that! do you have any idea how it will effect the others in the hood? when the now capitalist infidels (iraqies), in iraq actually having something more than sand to look forward to every day and start to live decent productive lives and have something to show for it? Do you have any idea how the people in these other countries will respond to their governments when they see this and they cannot have it? anyway in the long haul if the gw gang can remotely get this to work it could be very benificial to the whole region. of course we wont see it in our lifetimes. i think the long term effects of this has the potential to change the whole region once and for all. anyway my 2c worth on the war, now back to fighting the war on the infidel mail controls! LOL

Arpig -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 6:54:08 AM)
I don't really agree that they should have gone in (at least not for the reason's they gave [;)]), but now that the US is there, I think they should finish the job, for a lot of the reasons's stated in the above posts. But first and foremost, because the US Gvt said it would stick it out, and I think it is VERY important that the world believes that the US Gvt will do what it says it will, be that a threat to punish, or a promise to help. One somewhat overlooked aspect of the invasion of iraq was the sudden willingness of many previously intransigent opponents of US policy in the 3rd world to be a little more reasonable about things......coincidence? Being the world's policeman is not a pleasant job, but it is the job the US has inherited, and I for one am damned glad that it was the US, with all her faults, and not the USSR that ended up with that job.

subfever -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 7:08:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: subfever Isn't it tragically ironic that the "savage" Indians were one of the most god-like creatures on earth, possessing their remarkable harmony with nature? Dream on! When they had the opportunity they would hunt buffalo by stampeding the whole herd over a cliff! This is true. But were the killed buffalo left to waste? I think not. quote: If they didnt want a new born baby they would smash their head with rocks. I've read that these situations indeed occurred within periods of tribal starvation. From what I understand, this was done as a replacement to a far more slower and agonizing death. Please don't misunderstand me. I said that the Indians were one of the most god-like creatures on the planet. I didn't say that they were perfect. quote: Here in wisconsin roughly 10 years ago they decided to exercize their fishing rights as per the treaty we signed back in th estone ages with them. Better to exercise one's rights late than never. quote: Well that tossed the DNR right out the window and now what was managed conservation is desolation and the whole northern half of wisconsin walleye population is down so far that us white boys are only allowed to catch 2 per day while the indians go and kill them off thousands during the spawning season of all things so new eggs never hatch and no baby fishies! After they wipe out one area they move to the next and wipe it out!!! Not even worth pulling the boat out. Seeing that we broke almost every land treaty that we signed with them, I'd be a little hesitant to complain about my fishing recreation being treaded upon. quote: i am not saying we treated them remotely right when we moved in, we didnt, but harmony? i think not. go to northern wisconsin in any sports shop and dare say that! Moved in? Gee... I wonder if the Indians expressed it quite that way. I realize that people have their own expressions and definitions, but to me, "move in" is something people do when property is previously uninhabited or when other people have willingly vacated the property.

Real0ne -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 8:30:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever This is true. But were the killed buffalo left to waste? I think not. they didnt have refrigerators till ww2

michaelGA -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/16/2006 8:57:12 AM)
here's some philosophy for everyone: it takes more courage and intelligence to live together in peace and harmony than it does to kill others for being different. signed, the invisible, and often ignored, brat

Petruchio -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 12:03:21 AM)
quote: it takes more courage and intelligence to live together in peace and harmony than it does to kill others for being different Ever so right, Michael. BTW, I'm part Algonquin, and I seldom run babies over cliffs or smash bison heads on rocks anymore.

MistressJenny270 -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 11:11:26 AM)
There is a thing called forgiveness. Yes, we stole this country from the American Indians. I don't agree with that either. If we wanted to live here, we should have shared, not dominated. But, our country is one big contradiction after another. I know I said that our country was built on trusting GOD, but we took this country from the American Indians under false pretenses. We tortured them and left them out in the cold to survive on their own or die. And the majority of them died, so what makes us different from al Queda and what they did to us on 9/11? But GOD only forgives to a degree. He will one day turn his back on us like we did him and this country will no longer be a "FREE COUNTRY".

FangsNfeet -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 11:35:46 AM)
quote: it takes more courage and intelligence to live together in peace and harmony than it does to kill others for being different. Is this Yoda's philosophy about Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger, anger leads to suffering? People being different in culture, race, and sexual prefference is one thing but beliefs are another. I can't be with peace to those who believe that rape, theft, and murder are okay.

MistressJenny270 -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 11:55:40 AM)
I didn't say anything about it being okay. Read a little further down and you will see that I said that some day GOD will turn his back on us like we turned our back on him. Don't get me wrong, I love the country I live in b/c so far I am a free person in this country. One day, we are going to be like some of the other contries, NOT FREE. And what did our soldiers die for? NOTHING! It will all be a waste! Going back to my original comment/question, "Why can't our soldiers just come home and we mind our own business and stay the HELL out of everyone else's problems?"

michaelGA -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 12:34:12 PM)
i agree with MistressJenny we went there to get Bin Laden and failed...let's not fight someone else's war and call it our own...bring our people home. the USA is NOT the world police, we don't need another Viet Nam... enough is enough, don't you think?

michaelGA -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 12:36:36 PM)
again, that's not OUR problem...let the rest of the world deal with their own problems...we have quite enough in this country to deal with. until we can clean up our own mess, we can't clean up someone else's

Gauge -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 1:55:03 PM)
quote: again, that's not OUR problem...let the rest of the world deal with their own problems...we have quite enough in this country to deal with. until we can clean up our own mess, we can't clean up someone else's I agree 100%. We never should have interfered with Germany in WW2. We should have taken care of our own people in this country. All those people that died during WW2 were for nothing. Come on, you really can't believe what you are saying, can you? We do have plenty in this country to deal with and I agree that the loss of life is tragic but the fact is that we are the worlds police. Nations turn to us for help because we CAN help them. There are reasons for why we help other nations... one is it is better to help someone than make an enemy by not helping. The USA is the richest country in the WORLD... why shouldn't we help? The terrorists brought this fight to our front lawn, I don't know about you but I was ready to see if the military would take me because I don't want those bastards blowing up another building and killing innocent people in my neighborhood. I know several people that lost someone on 9-11-2001 and if you can look them in the eye and tell them that you think this war on terror is for naught then you are a stronger person than I am. We will hunt Bin Laden until we find him. If we do find him, he will answer for his crimes... but believe me that I won't feel too badly if someone gives him a grenade enema first. I am not pro-war. I am not against our soldiers. I am not anti-US. What I am against is the fact that this country was lied to in the case of the war in Iraq. We went there with a purpose and we captured Saddam. We now have to "clean up our own mess" that we created. The war there was sold to us as legitimate, but after you chop down the cherry tree and it is broadcast around the world, are you going to sit there with duct tape and try to hide what you did and hope everyone ignores it? The fact is, we were wrong. Now, because we were wrong we have an obligation to fix it by helping to bring a stable form of government there.

michaelGA -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 2:04:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: again, that's not OUR problem...let the rest of the world deal with their own problems...we have quite enough in this country to deal with. until we can clean up our own mess, we can't clean up someone else's I agree 100%. We never should have interfered with Germany in WW2. We should have taken care of our own people in this country. All those people that died during WW2 were for nothing. wasn't the United Nations created to "police" the world...why do we have to clean up everyone's mess? Come on, you really can't believe what you are saying, can you? yes, i do believe in all that i said, or else i would not have said it. We do have plenty in this country to deal with and I agree that the loss of life is tragic but the fact is that we are the worlds police. Nations turn to us for help because we CAN help them. There are reasons for why we help other nations... one is it is better to help someone than make an enemy by not helping. The USA is the richest country in the WORLD... why shouldn't we help? The terrorists brought this fight to our front lawn, I don't know about you but I was ready to see if the military would take me because I don't want those bastards blowing up another building and killing innocent people in my neighborhood. I know several people that lost someone on 9-11-2001 and if you can look them in the eye and tell them that you think this war on terror is for naught then you are a stronger person than I am. We will hunt Bin Laden until we find him. If we do find him, he will answer for his crimes... but believe me that I won't feel too badly if someone gives him a grenade enema first. how many innocents do we have to kill to get to him. does this make us any better than Bin Laden? I am not pro-war. I am not against our soldiers. I am not anti-US. What I am against is the fact that this country was lied to in the case of the war in Iraq. We went there with a purpose and we captured Saddam. We now have to "clean up our own mess" that we created. did they come over here to help clean up THEIR mess? i think not. The war there was sold to us as legitimate, but after you chop down the cherry tree and it is broadcast around the world, are you going to sit there with duct tape and try to hide what you did and hope everyone ignores it? The fact is, we were wrong. Now, because we were wrong we have an obligation to fix it by helping to bring a stable form of government there.

MistressJenny270 -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 3:03:42 PM)
I agree.

mnottertail -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 4:26:13 PM)
Reality is reality. I could speak for days and days on this, but tho the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. For a the armchair warriors and politicians out there; von Clauswitz Sun Tzu Miamato Musashi Machiavelli Churchill is a good start.......... Here is the news, tho... Understand what you are fighting and what the war is..... If you concern yourself with world opinion whatsoever, if you shrink from slaughtering women; children; animals; desolating countries; and men (in that rough order) ; you might re-consider whether surgical strikes are the vogue... I am not my brother's keeper; but if you truely think you are; start by telling your best friend's wife about his fucking around on her.....or the obverse (if true), tell the people at work that they are fucking idiots, but never fear; you will hep them to the collective wisdom......and so on..... Think globally, but act locally........ If bin Lauden is guilty (and I really don't give a fuck if he is or isn't) then put your money where your mouth is......I will find him, you finance it.......I will bring him to you. Of course we can walk away from the middle east imbriglio, christ, it is not like we haven't done it anywhere on the globe before, yet those countries still stand. Unless you know what the outcome is, there is no sense starting a war on terrorism, unless you are willing to do whatever it takes......WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!!!!!!!!!! To remove the threat. So while fighting for your "freedom"........ consider the freedoms you have freely and frivolously given away. At least now, Cheney has shot somebody, so there is one AND ONLY ONE warmonger in the administration with combat experience, who can tell you if a quail is worth it......... So in concrete terms; then: What benefit is accrued by ME AND MY POSTERITY to fuck around in Afganistan and Iraq? Revenge? OK, If I can get it I am your boy, I will kiss your ass on main street and give you an hour to draw a crowd. Kill bin Lauden and anyone who has any taint of him, innocent or not, then I have revenge. I cannot stop terrorism, nor can you. We can make it so not worth their while.....kinda like handling it like the Russians did when we did the hostage shit in Iraq some years back. But we will not. We find it more what?????????? Aesthetically pleasing, to bring a year or two of our brand of democracy to the country of Iraq.......and they are buying into this IN A BIG WAY...........LOL. Typical american response (and british) to talk louder when people don't understand, 'cause we are sure they will get it. Ron

Gauge -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 4:42:31 PM)
quote: Come on, you really can't believe what you are saying, can you? yes, i do believe in all that i said, or else i would not have said it. Ummm... ahhhh... Yeah. Good point. [:)] quote: wasn't the United Nations created to "police" the world...why do we have to clean up everyone's mess? They were indeed, however we are one of the "superpowers" and therefore have a bit of an obligation to other countries that are not as stable as us. The tsunami in December of 2004 and hurricane Katrina were perfect examples of why we should help others. Disasters and wars and other cataclysmic events happen, does the mantle fall solely to the USA to be the savior? No, but the fact is that we are a blessed nation and have much to give. I do not ignore what goes on within our own borders... I know there are problems that need to be addressed. What would happen if, God forbid, a tsunami would hit the US like it did in Asia... wouldn't it be a great thing if other countries would come and help us out? If we never helped anyone else, why would they want to help us? There are political reasons as well as humanitarian ones as to why we aid foreign countries. quote: how many innocents do we have to kill to get to him. does this make us any better than Bin Laden? You know, the fucked up thing about war is that people die. Innocents die. Does it make us better than Bin Laden? Yes, it does. Trying to limit civilian deaths (I detest the word casualties because there is nothing casual about it) is of great importance to the USA. Bin Laden could give a fuck-all about who he kills as long as he makes a political point. If he would have crashed one of those airplanes into a school full of children, he wouldn't give two shits and blazes. That is the difference. We do not target innocents... he does. I can't believe that the distinction between a reprehensible terrorist and the government that is hunting him is a question in your mind. quote: did they come over here to help clean up THEIR mess? i think not. Saying that the terrorists should come clean up their mess is just silly. Did Japan come clean up after Pearl Harbor? Did the Germans rebuild Poland and France and England? Nope. Why clean up our mess? We made it and because we were wrong in why we started the war we just cannot let Iraq just sit there and flounder while some other dictator takes over that is worse than Sadam. The main difference with the USA is we try to do what is right and just. It doesn't always end up that way, but we do try. Look, you are entitled to your opinion and, believe this or not, I do understand what you are saying. America is what it is. We live here and enjoy freedoms that other countries dream about. Blood was shed for that freedom. I wish to God we didn't have to have young men and women dying on foreign soil but once those airplanes crashed into those towers and the Pentagon, our world changed forever. I may not agree with the Iraq war but I am all for hunting down the son of a bitch that killed all those people. ***Edited to say: I really hate political discussions***

MistressJenny270 -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 4:45:23 PM)
Now, I just say what I feel. I am not a philosopher so therefore, I have not fucking clue what you just said. I think........... well, never mind, I can't tell you what I think until I know what you said. You know, this whole war on terrorism is really very simple. LEAVE THE CRAZY FUCKS ALONE, LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER AND COME THE FUCK HOME!!!!

Gauge -> RE: War on Terrorism (2/17/2006 4:53:30 PM)
quote: You know, this whole war on terrorism is really very simple. LEAVE THE CRAZY FUCKS ALONE, LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER AND COME THE FUCK HOME!!!! That would be a wonderful approach if, in fact, the crazy fucks would kill themselves off. But they aren't. They are targeting innocent people for their political and religious agenda. If no one attempts to stop them, it will not get better.

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