“Senator” Barbara Boxer (Full Version)

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bootlckr57 -> “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/18/2009 8:36:29 PM)

I know the right wing airwaves were a flutter with this. What do you think?  I think dressing down a General for calling her “Ma’am” was kind of hot.



GreedyTop -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/18/2009 11:18:58 PM)

Link?



CatdeMedici -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:24:46 AM)

I tink it was arrogant, ignorant and uncalled for--behavior like that only fuels the "women are hormonal domineering bitches" concept. It was obvious her insecurities were showing. She is high ranking elected official, she damn well should be referred to as Maam, its probably one of the nicest things she will hear, especially now.



servantforuse -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:34:53 AM)

If it bothered her that much an indiscrete note could have been given to him. As a General he also deserves respect.I also think that this was uncalled for and shows Ms. Boxers true colors. Any decent employer will not berate one of his or her employees in public. It is done behind closed doors. If she ever visits Milwaukee I will be there with  huge MAAM sign to greet her... 



thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:37:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bootlckr57

I know the right wing airwaves were a flutter with this.
Well it's kinda hard to pass up an opportunity like this. She is just begging to be talked about and not in a good way.
 
What do you think? 
I think she need to keep her mind on her job and stop worrying about stupid bs like this.
 
 I think dressing down a General for calling her “Ma’am” was kind of hot.
Oh yea, because Ma'am is such an offensive word. maybe she would have prefered "her majasty the high bitch"
 




thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:38:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If it bothered her that much an indiscrete note could have been given to him. As a General he also deserves respect.I also think that this was uncalled for and shows Ms. Boxers true colors. Any decent employer will not berate one of his or her employees in public. It is done behind closed doors. If she ever visits Milwaukee I will be there with  huge MAAM sign to greet her... 


Well yes, but then the press would not have picked up on it. What fun is it being a bitch if no one see you doing it?



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 8:20:48 AM)

Frankly, I am disappointed in her behavior. One would hope that an individual taking on public office would learn how to deal effectively with others, and to accept courtesies with dignity and grace, even when the particular form of address isn't one's preference. Unfortunately, it appears that Senator Boxer is unfamiliar with how to be graceful even when annoyed, which, to me, makes her no better than a substantial portion of the ignorant, uncultured, and boorish individuals who seem to have found their way into leadership positions in our government.

*Sighs* What I wouldn't give for 6 months to enforce a mandatory residential course in etiquette and manners in diplomatic and leadership situations!

Dame Calla



aidan -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 12:09:18 PM)

Yes yes, gods forbid that she should ask to be called by her official title.

If somebody was to address the president as "Mr. Obama", most of us would think it a fairly gouache thing to do and would not fault the president for correcting the speaker. The same principle applies here. She's not "Ms. Boxer" or "Mrs. Boxer" or, as the use of Ma'am implies, "Madame Boxer". She's Senator Boxer. Senator is her title. There's nothing wrong with her expecting to be addressed as such by other officials in formal situations.



PeonForHer -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 12:21:21 PM)

Not that I know this story but . . .

What a minefield!  Isn't "Ma'am" what a soldier would call a superior - female, natch - officer?  If so, it would have been meant respectfully.  On the other hand, depending on the style of her correcting him, her demand to be addressed as  "Senator" could have been no more than a way of saying "I'm a civilian, I'm not in the military" - in other words, not much of a dressing-down at all.  (I hear this military/civilian thing is a frequent bone of contention between senior soldiers and political leaders.)



servantforuse -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 12:34:25 PM)

I can't recall ever when a sitting Senator was this rude to a General. Where is the respect he deserves for his service. I predict that she will pay a price for her arrogant attitude.. 



PeonForHer -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 2:29:25 PM)

FR

Just watched the video.  Ah.  It wasn't what I thought it might have been. 



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 2:42:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

Yes yes, gods forbid that she should ask to be called by her official title.

If somebody was to address the president as "Mr. Obama", most of us would think it a fairly gouache thing to do and would not fault the president for correcting the speaker. The same principle applies here. She's not "Ms. Boxer" or "Mrs. Boxer" or, as the use of Ma'am implies, "Madame Boxer". She's Senator Boxer. Senator is her title. There's nothing wrong with her expecting to be addressed as such by other officials in formal situations.



Even when a title is used, words like sir, ma'am, your honor, etc., are still acceptable alternatives.

Now, to be fair, I hadn't actually heard the conversation, aside from the commentary about her "dressing down" the General. This afternoon, I had the opportunity to see a transcript of the conversation:

Senator Boxer: “Do me a favor, can you say ’senator’ instead of ‘ma’am’?” Boxer said, interrupting the Army general. “It’s just a thing. I worked so hard to get that title, so I’d appreciate it. Thank you.”

General Smith: “Yes, senator.”

Now, in seeing the conversation, it seems that she wasn't the ravening, frothing-at-the-mouth banshee that some individuals would make it appear. She was actually pretty doggone courteous about her request, as was the General in responding. I am beginning to think that the -real- issue here is people trying to make a big deal out of little things -- and I wonder what it is that the 'slight of mind' is trying to distract us from.

I humbly withdraw my earlier rant, as I believe that it was not called for, nor justified, in this situation.

Dame Calla



aidan -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:10:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Now, to be fair, I hadn't actually heard the conversation, aside from the commentary about her "dressing down" the General. This afternoon, I had the opportunity to see a transcript of the conversation:

Senator Boxer: “Do me a favor, can you say ’senator’ instead of ‘ma’am’?” Boxer said, interrupting the Army general. “It’s just a thing. I worked so hard to get that title, so I’d appreciate it. Thank you.”

General Smith: “Yes, senator.”

Now, in seeing the conversation, it seems that she wasn't the ravening, frothing-at-the-mouth banshee that some individuals would make it appear. She was actually pretty doggone courteous about her request, as was the General in responding. I am beginning to think that the -real- issue here is people trying to make a big deal out of little things -- and I wonder what it is that the 'slight of mind' is trying to distract us from.

I humbly withdraw my earlier rant, as I believe that it was not called for, nor justified, in this situation.

Dame Calla


Yeah, I had read about this "faux paux" earlier today so I knew she had not been "rude" except by a very thin stretch of the imagination. It was a professional courtesy thing.

But as we can see from many of the comments in this thread so far, people have a particular bone to pick. I'll bet you dollars to rubles that if this had been an exchange between a male senator and a female- actually, I'm not sure what the highest rank a woman holds in the armed forces. Let me check that real quick...

Lieutenant general. Learn something new everyday. As I was saying, if this had been between a male senator and a female lieutenant general, I doubt it would have made anything but the most inconsequential of blogs. We certainly wouldn't be reading posts like "Where is the respect he deserves for his service. I predict that she will pay a price for her arrogant attitude..." or "maybe she would have [preferred] 'her [majesty] the high bitch.'"

But oh noes, a woman who wields the power of a duly-elected office is being uppity and disrespecting a man! A military man at that. Stone her! STONE HER!



PeonForHer -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:34:06 PM)

You might be right, Aidan.  However, I remember the time that the Aussie PM put his hand on Queen Elizabeth's shoulder.  Shock and disgust in many of the farty papers across the UK - extreme transgression of protocol.   It transpired after a survey, though, that the vast majority of people didn't give a toss - and neither did the Queen or the Aussie PM. 

I'd say that, male or female, it would always look bad for someone to tick off a high ranking and old-ish military man for not using the right title.  In fact, no matter how irksome it is to be mis-addressed, you always come off looking worse to others if you tick someone off for using the wrong title.

Hmm.  As an aside: I'd have instinctively addressed your Pres as "Mr Obama".  But, then, most American journalists address our PM as "Mr Prime Minister".



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 4:42:40 PM)

quote:

Hmm. As an aside: I'd have instinctively addressed your Pres as "Mr Obama". But, then, most American journalists address our PM as "Mr Prime Minister".


It is the use of the family name (Obama) without the precourser "President" that is considered poor etiquette when addressing the US President. The proper form of address is either "No, President Obama, sir" (which I find awkward) or "Yes, Mr. President"... very similar to your "Mr. Prime Minister".

Dame Calla



thishereboi -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 5:24:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

Yes yes, gods forbid that she should ask to be called by her official title.

If somebody was to address the president as "Mr. Obama", most of us would think it a fairly gouache thing to do and would not fault the president for correcting the speaker. The same principle applies here. She's not "Ms. Boxer" or "Mrs. Boxer" or, as the use of Ma'am implies, "Madame Boxer". She's Senator Boxer. Senator is her title. There's nothing wrong with her expecting to be addressed as such by other officials in formal situations.



So if a general said "excuse me Sir" to Obama you think he would have had a fit? I would hope he had better things to worry about, but maybe yout right.



submale2u -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 5:36:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: aidan

Yes yes, gods forbid that she should ask to be called by her official title.

If somebody was to address the president as "Mr. Obama", most of us would think it a fairly gouache thing to do and would not fault the president for correcting the speaker. The same principle applies here. She's not "Ms. Boxer" or "Mrs. Boxer" or, as the use of Ma'am implies, "Madame Boxer". She's Senator Boxer. Senator is her title. There's nothing wrong with her expecting to be addressed as such by other officials in formal situations.



So if a general said "excuse me Sir" to Obama you think he would have had a fit? I would hope he had better things to worry about, but maybe yout right.


You took the words out of my mouth.  The general did NOT say, "Ms. or Mrs." as the example of "Mr. Obama" implies.  He said "Ma'am."  I am sure that if ANYONE called Obama "Sir" (the equivalent of Ma'am) he would not be offended in the least.



PeonForHer -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 5:50:41 PM)

Edited - just grasped the sense of what you were saying . . .

Or maybe I haven't.  Just in case - "Mr Prime Minister" is wrong - it should be just "Prime Minister".  But nobody here cares that Americans do that.



DominaDaphne -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 6:31:20 PM)

How long has this guy been a general? Boxer has several terms as California "junior" senator under her belt. I think she was just asking to be address as she prefers. Same as I correct my scene friends in how I wish to be called.

In my opinion, the custom of a gender-oblivious honorific "sir" would obviate so much of this BS. Reality check: it has long been usual in the English language to use female appellations to belittle a person's status.

Actors is now gender-neutral and refers to Lindsay Lohan as much as Clint Eastwood.
Firefighters no longer gets a rude snort when the term is used instead of fireman.
Police officers likewise.
Congressional representatives are representatives and not Congressmen.
What, she should have asked to be called "Senatress!"?

In the scene, we're playing with gender-relative matters, so titles become gender-specific. In the rest of the world—business, politics, law, church, government, media—it behooves folks to be as gender-blind/gender-neutral as possible.



kajirusilk -> RE: “Senator” Barbara Boxer (6/19/2009 8:43:27 PM)

i agree completely Ms Cat.

Respectfully,

silk



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