RE: Now... is it just me...? (Full Version)

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ElizabethAnne -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 5:47:05 AM)

Hello Folks,

quote:

But I'll concede to your verbiage and ask that Goreans please explain the belief system, mostly along the lines of gender bias and inherent slavery and submission within.


Why?  What do you care?  Plenty of search engines in the WWW, or simply read the Gorean board here, OR another thought read the books.    I will say this one thing, Gor is NOT about gender control.  

Now, I do know of new book soon to be released;  you might want to reserve a copy, "Gor for Dummies".

Good luck with your quest,

Elizabeth Anne




Roselaure -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 5:59:50 AM)

To answer the OP's title question, yes, it's just you.



IronBear -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 6:15:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

But, I would like Goreans to validate their belief system.

Hahahaha! Sorry, OP. I'm not a particular fan of the Gorean lifestyle, but I suspect that most Goreans would find that remark rather humorous.


Having lived a Gorean Lifestyle before moving on to my current Victorian Lifestyle, I find this young person's comment about wanting anyone let alone Gorean Lifestylers and even Victorian Lifestylers validate their beliefs or justify them in any way other than to say that this is what we are, what we do and how we live 24/7, not only ludicrous and perhaps downright insulting were it not so jolly humorous. We have no need to justify ourselves to him or any one else let alone validate our lifestyle choice. The fact that we live in the most successful lives and many have most successful relationship dynamics based on lur lifestyle is all the validation needed.

However if the OP really wants to know such things let him find the courage to post his questions and views in the appropriate place....The Gorean Forum!



Apocalypso -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 6:16:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belittled
Agreed. For those who don't know how to use words.
I have a feeling they'd be abused, considering the replies to this topic.
Troll smarter, not harder.



nevergrowdup -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 6:40:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

Now, I do know of new book soon to be released;  you might want to reserve a copy, "Gor for Dummies".



I wish!  I've read one of Norman's (rambling) books and have done some Gore role play on second life.  But I'm still confused about a lot of it.  I'm not sure I have the tolerance to read more of his books to find the answers.

FWIW, I don't see Gor as a panacea, but I am drawn to certain elements of it.

I've been known as a category killer.  Often when I post people lose interest in the thread.  Maybe (fingers crossed) that will be the case for this one.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 6:49:19 AM)

quote:

However if the OP really wants to know such things let him find the courage to post his questions and views in the appropriate place....The Gorean Forum!

[sm=wall.gif]*in a golf announcer's voice*"... That slight squeaking sound you hear folks, is the sound of testiclar atrophy as it happens....."



barelynangel -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 7:01:09 AM)

Having only read the first page so far --- My question to the OP is why post this over in this forum instead of perhaps the GOREAN forum wherein you would have such a conversation with people who LIVE Gorean rather than people who speak many times of Gorean based on ignorance and misinformation.

I guess that would be too easy or because she isn't a troll people wouldn't be speaking badly or negatively or making snide ignorant comments about it because she wants to be right instead of actually speaking to people who LIVE it. Its nice to see many people actually see this in her post and i will say its appreciated that people actually don't find a need to be derogatory about Gorean whether they like it or not. Many people feel justified in being so, so its a pleasure seeing people actually not have that need.

The idea this was posted here instead of the Gorean forum tells me clearly of the OP's motive.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 7:15:13 AM)

*raises hand a la  Horshack* OOOOOh i know, i know, i know!!!!!

i think the OP and partner thought that they could come to the General BDSM board and trash the Goreans and that they would find backers because of some "Us" vs."Them" mentality; that those of us who don't live a Gorean lifestyle would somehow embrace the thread, and get on their bandwagon.  The problem in their calculations being the fact that it was so obviously an effort at shitstirring/trolling/attention-seeking,  it was laughable.

But what do i know? my posts according to some, are irrelevant...i always thought they were simply irreverent...who knew????[8|]



CatdeMedici -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 7:20:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungLust


A lifestyle based upon the words of a science fiction author, seemingly ridiculous to any outsider who catches a glimpse of it...

So yeah, am I the only one who has drawn a parallel to the two?





Yes. Go out and make it a great day.



IronBear -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 8:00:15 AM)

If you think about it for a second and do a little searching/reading you'll find that both YoungLust and Belittled are kids, all of 19 which is a great age to be at but I seem to remember and I'm thinking that a few of you may remember those years yourselves, at their age things do seem to be black and white and all things need validation and justification. Mostly life experiences teach us otherwise and usually instructs us, albeit harshly at times, not to be so bloody minded and rubbishing things either you have no practical experience of and know bugger all about. It is after all human nature to fear and thus attack the unknown. I would say though to both YoungLust and Belittled: "Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem." (In the good old days, children like you were left to perish on windswept crags)



lronitulstahp -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 8:13:32 AM)

Belittled needs to update her age in her profile. You can't be 19 if you joined in '06....Well you can, but ....naughty naughty[sm=shame.gif]



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 8:33:32 AM)

Excepting, of course, if you DID go on a Groean board and ask a question, you will be flamed. You will be told "go read the books, we cannot explain it in simple words." (Nevermind the books themselves are composed of simple words.) No one there will stick their neck out by offering an explaination for fear of being jumped on by other Goreads who have slightly different takes on what being Gorean actually IS.

They follow something that has no foundation definition.

Goreans have read the 27 trash novels, each of them have gotten their own interpretation of it. Once they think they have it down, there seems to be an unwritten rule of this "Fight Club"  to not discuss the details, or even the basic tennants, lest you be cast out.

Luckily, Gor is not a cult. It lacks one of the most important features required to be defined as such: a centralized, charasmatic leader. Everything else, the giving up of your worldly posessions, thesubscription to a set of irrational ideas, a focus on a single unifying concept (men are naturally superior in all aspects of life) all make Gor a near-cult. So until someone within Gor tries to make themselves a millionaire by marketing themselves as "Gor's One True Leader" we really don't have to worry about them. They will remain just an annoying little sub-fandom.

Sort of the way Klingons are at Star Trek conventions, or the 501st stormtroopers are at Star Wars gatheirngs... Except, those fandoms aren't interested in pushing their way of life on the other people around them. Nor do they advocate violence toward others as a means of solving minor disagreements. Gor does.



CarrieO -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 8:47:32 AM)

I believe you forgot to add "in my opinion".

This hasn't been the experience of all who have asked a question on the Gorean forum.  Many times it depends greatly HOW the question (if it even is a question and not just a general statement of opinion or flame) is asked.

While Gor isn't my cup of tea (yes, I have read the first 10 books and spoken to some who chose to follow a gorean dynamic), I see no reason to judge anyone for their lifestyle.

edited to add...OP, if you're really interested in learning (questionable), there's a FAQ thread on the Gorean forum you could check out....or just do some reading[;)]



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:06:59 AM)

Yeah, OP... "do some reading." (Gosh, why didn't "I" think to say that?)

I've read the first five of the paperbacks, and, (in my opinion,) they are the literary equivilent to Ludiviko Treatment. (that's a Clockwork Orange reference... which is a book actually written by an author who understood the language, Anthony Burgess.) Literally, my breath was taken away by such phrases as "She took a deep breath of fresh Gorean air, and it was like... a breath of fresh air!" for its sheer ineptitude. The books are rife with third-rate writing like that. To be honest, I've also read some of the pulp stories of Ed Wood Jr., and I consider those to be better written that the books of John Norman.

So, I think (in my opinion) the Gor novels are extremely helpful... especially in the dead of an Arkansas winter, when I need to light a fire in the fireplace. But, (in my opinion,) they are hardly anything worth basing your life around.



lronitulstahp -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:10:31 AM)

well OP...Seems you finally got your wish...you should at least send Mars some flowers.[sm=sucks.jpg]



IronBear -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:21:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Excepting, of course, if you DID go on a Groean board and ask a question, you will be flamed. You will be told "go read the books, we cannot explain it in simple words." (Nevermind the books themselves are composed of simple words.) No one there will stick their neck out by offering an explaination for fear of being jumped on by other Goreads who have slightly different takes on what being Gorean actually IS.

They follow something that has no foundation definition.

Goreans have read the 27 trash novels, each of them have gotten their own interpretation of it. Once they think they have it down, there seems to be an unwritten rule of this "Fight Club"  to not discuss the details, or even the basic tennants, lest you be cast out.

Luckily, Gor is not a cult. It lacks one of the most important features required to be defined as such: a centralized, charasmatic leader. Everything else, the giving up of your worldly posessions, thesubscription to a set of irrational ideas, a focus on a single unifying concept (men are naturally superior in all aspects of life) all make Gor a near-cult. So until someone within Gor tries to make themselves a millionaire by marketing themselves as "Gor's One True Leader" we really don't have to worry about them. They will remain just an annoying little sub-fandom.

Sort of the way Klingons are at Star Trek conventions, or the 501st stormtroopers are at Star Wars gatheirngs... Except, those fandoms aren't interested in pushing their way of life on the other people around them. Nor do they advocate violence toward others as a means of solving minor disagreements. Gor does.


There speaks a man who is openly and vocal about his hatred of a lifestyle he know nothing about and I'll warrant has made no attempts to learn from those who bloody well live and breath their chosen Lifestyle 24/7. In my opinion the quote and all contained therein are: "Non Gradus Anus Rodentum!" (Not Worth A Rats Ass!). As far as I know such comments may well be in defiance of ToS regarding throwing crap at other people's Lifestyles. But then I could be wrong, I personally in most cases just ignore such people as being beneath me to even deal with them.



windchymes -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:23:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Did you know that sci-fi author is actually a Professor of Philosophy?



As a side note here, one thing I've learned my lifetime is that, just because some people have a lot of letters after their names doesn't necessarily mean they are smart.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:32:06 AM)

Sorry, Iron, I know you don't agree with me. But this IS my take on Gor. I'm not trying to be an asshole here. But I do honestly think that Gor is one step away from being a dangerous cult. I had a Gorean room mate at one point who ripped me off to the tune of over $800, claiming that he had every right to do so as a Gorean. I've seen plenty of people who lept into it after reading the books, only to be physically, mentally and emotionally abused by others. When I was a board member of a BDSM group in Denver, we saw so many women hurt by this "philosophy" we actually had discussion about if it would be more effective to start a post-abuse recovery group specifically to help them.

Please note: I'm NOT talking down any specific members here. What I have issues with is the underlying IDEA. I feel (in my opinion) that the OP asked a valid question. So far, none of the Goreans have attempted to answer it, or argue the point.

The question remains: is Gor the BDSM version of Scientology? Is it a cult?

I say no. It's not quite a cult. But darn close. And a very destructive near miss, in my opinion.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:35:41 AM)

Hiya Steel,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Orion, I would not necessarily agree.

Gorean Philosophy has elements of Bondage, Dominance, Submission, and SadoMasochism. It is just not the overall goal of Gorean Philosophy.


One does not even have to own a slave, bind a person, dominant a person, submit to a person, inflict pain, or receive pain, to follow a Gorean Morality.

quote:


Gorean Philosophy takes a more Gender Specific definition of Dominance and surrender and the Fall of the Western Civilization and WHY it fell and the belief that Integrity and Honor are things that are required to be a functioning member of any society and that a Role of Dominance is complimented by a aspect of surrender that flows to the understanding of Natural Order.

Now the deeper you get into it the further you get away from the Gorean Philosophy and move further into a personal one but the frame work is in the individual integrity.

Steel


This I agree with, but it is those that look at Gor and see some male that says 'I have a dick so I am in charge." or all the slavery trappings, and make snap judgements on things they know little about. I am sure others that are involved with other things deal with these people all the time though, and understand.

Live well,
Orion



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 9:43:05 AM)

They have written books on it? Why would you be involved with BDSM since people have written books about it? ;)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Belittled

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Because Gorean Philosophy has nothing to do with BDSM. It has to do with, well, philosophy and living day to day life.


Nearly any lifestyle "has to do with" philosophy.  BDSM is extremely philosophical, and I'd wager people with master degrees have written books about the way of life. I just can't understand how it redeems Gor of its ridiculous ways.




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