RE: Now... is it just me...? (Full Version)

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YoungLust -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:13:04 PM)

I think the true crime is that people are basing lifestyles around books that were so poorly written. If you really want to look to books with philosophical musings to guide you, choose an author that can actually write... someone like Chuck Palahniuk.

That, and most of his musings deal with a modern society and aren't so inherently flawed and ridiculous



Vendaval -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:13:57 PM)

You really are determined to make yourself look petty, mean-spirited and foolish here.



YoungLust -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:24:36 PM)

No. Fans of Chuck Palahniuk might find my comments quite endearing.

Different strokes for different folks.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:40:14 PM)

YL,

No, it's not a crime to base your life on some fictional book, or set of books. Or on something as trivial as a TV show. People do that sort of thing all the time. Everything from the Bible to H.P. Lovecraft has been the basis for some religion, or crackpot society at one time or another. (This, from a one time Trekkie! LOL) And for the most part, doing so is a harmless eccentricity.

There have been cases where people following some fictional universe have had tragedy heaped upon them, and others because they took their fandom/religion too far: The "Heaven's Gate" cult, inspiring it's followers to suicide, and the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo (Supreme Truth) cult, which perpetrated a series of gas attacks in the Tokyo subway system in 1995, for extreme examples.

There IS a danger in following fictional exploits... and seeing in them a way of life. Espcially when the basis of that fiction is the central idea that some people are naturally superior to all others, that the inferrior peoples consent is uneeded, and that daily life should reflect that.






sirsholly -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:46:19 PM)

quote:

But, I would like Goreans to validate their belief system.
no one needs to validate their beliefs to another.


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oceanwinds -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:48:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

But, I would like Goreans to validate their belief system.
no one needs to validate their beliefs to another.


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MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 12:56:18 PM)

I agree with you Holly.

Maybe "validate" isn't the right word... Personally, I'd like to see a few Goreans at least explain what Gor is all about to them. What the attraction is, and what benefits they've gained from it. Something a bit more tangible than "Go read the books, it's impossible for me to explain in words."

That's actually something I never see when people talk about it. I assume because they don't want to be the target of being shunned and critisized by their fellow Goreans. (See the "fight club" comment I made earlier.)



Apocalypso -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:02:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67
Like so many here, I too have read several books in Norman's series and although I did enjoy them I find the idea of bringing that philosophy into my actual lifestyle to be impractical and just plain unwise.  There is no place in modern Western culture for the kind of gender bias that is tolerated so readily by the Gorean philosophy and the idea of a caste system is just right out. 
You're doing something quite different here and critiquing Gorean philosophy from a position of knowledge.  I am inclined to agree with you on several points.

Still, I largely choose to keep my own counsel on this issue, at least currently.  This thread simply isn't the place for any kind of real debate, for reasons that should be self-evident.

As an aside, I completely refuse to provide translations for any Latin I may use.

Bene, cum Latine nescias, nolo manus meas in te maculare.



oceanwinds -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:03:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

I agree with you Holly.

Maybe "validate" isn't the right word... Personally, I'd like to see a few Goreans at least explain what Gor is all about to them. What the attraction is, and what benefits they've gained from it. Something a bit more tangible than "Go read the books, it's impossible for me to explain in words."

That's actually something I never see when people talk about it. I assume because they don't want to be the target of being shunned and critisized by their fellow Goreans. (See the "fight club" comment I made earlier.)


It is just my opinion MarsBonfire, from observing this thread, if the OP had a geniune interest in understanding Gorean the few here might have gone into more explaination. Usually, from my observation, if people are treated with respect, then they are more giving in nature.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:05:58 PM)

That's okay... after all, there are plenty of online English to Latin translators available online.



janiebelle -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:13:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungLust

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

If you think about it for a second and do a little searching/reading you'll find that both YoungLust and Belittled are kids, all of 19 which is a great age to be at but I seem to remember and I'm thinking that a few of you may remember those years yourselves, at their age things do seem to be black and white and all things need validation and justification. Mostly life experiences teach us otherwise and usually instructs us, albeit harshly at times, not to be so bloody minded and rubbishing things either you have no practical experience of and know bugger all about. It is after all human nature to fear and thus attack the unknown. I would say though to both YoungLust and Belittled: "Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem." (In the good old days, children like you were left to perish on windswept crags)
Yeah, 19 is pretty fucking amazing. Although your generalization about how I see the world is even more ridiculous than how I see living a lifestyle based on the musings of an incredibly sub-par writer/philosophical hack. Not to mention that I'm fairly accomplished for my young, but oh-so-glorious age. I don't see how the IDEA that since my pubes haven't grayed and my delicate features haven't wrinkled, that my opinions carry less weight.

As to why I didn't post this in the Gorean forum... well... if you read the posts and have any sort of ability to comprehend- well... anything, you'd see why.


YL, I can understand that you have not read the Gor books- and I can say this:  It's foolish to hold strong opinions about things you don't understand.  I am Gor-ignorant, and therefore my opinions on the matter are not much of a hill to die on.
As for books you might ought to read, might I suggest Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People?
Just sayin'.
j



Maxwell67 -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:15:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

I agree with you Holly.

Maybe "validate" isn't the right word... Personally, I'd like to see a few Goreans at least explain what Gor is all about to them. What the attraction is, and what benefits they've gained from it. Something a bit more tangible than "Go read the books, it's impossible for me to explain in words."

That's actually something I never see when people talk about it. I assume because they don't want to be the target of being shunned and criticized by their fellow Goreans. (See the "fight club" comment I made earlier.)


I think this is correct also.  When one lives with a set of beliefs which cannot be defended, then the proper response to criticism is no response.  You see this sort of thing regularly online when the beliefs that reinforce bigotry and extremism are attacked.  Sure it sometimes brings the idiots and crazy's out of the woodwork, but the intelligentsia will not dignify your criticism with a serious response (though they might address something else that is being discussed within the same thread). 

For instance, my mother was a female supremacist, but neither she nor any of her circle would discuss the matter with me seriously.  I was a man, and therefore it was beneath them to justify themselves to me.  The Goreans I know (and I have known many) almost universally point to the emphasis on personal honor and responsibility that they say is integral to the philosophy, however, the last I checked, Goreans have not cornered the market on either of those traits, and they have as large a population of hypocrites as any other group.

Do not expect a serious debate on this subject with Gorean folk who are savvy enough to understand what it takes to present a strong case.  Ever. It is not that such people do not exist.. there are some very wise and intelligent Goreans out there, but being that savvy also means they understand that actually presenting such a case is impossible.  The 'good' Goreans who are living the lifestyle do so by picking and choosing wisely those elements that work for them and leaving the rest behind.  There is no perfect system.  Everyone has to find it for themselves no matter what life philosophy they espouse.



sirsholly -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:18:15 PM)

quote:

I don't see how the IDEA that since my pubes haven't grayed and my delicate features haven't wrinkled, that my opinions carry less weight.
opinions are not deemed weightless by a lack of  grey hair and wrinkles. Rather, by intelligence or lack there of.



CatdeMedici -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:19:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungLust


A lifestyle based upon the words of a science fiction author, seemingly ridiculous to any outsider who catches a glimpse of it...

So yeah, am I the only one who has drawn a parallel to the two?





Yes. Go out and make it a great day.



MarsBonfire -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:26:59 PM)

Max,

Yeah! Darn those "wise and intelligent" Goreans out there... who always remain silent. It's like they don't even exist, or something.



LotusSong -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:28:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungLust


So yeah, am I the only one who has drawn a parallel to the two?



Why.. yes..... yes you are [sm=abducted.gif]

(It's similar, but with the absence of purple Kool-aid.)



Vendaval -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:29:51 PM)

I am quite a fan of Chuck Palahniuk, he is a brilliant writer.

What you have done here is analogous to wondering into a bar filled with regulars who all know how to agree to disagree and try to start trouble. Then you pull the passive-agressive move when called on it. Your immaturity has nothing to do with hair colors or wrinkles on faces, I have friends younger than you with more maturity and better manners.



YoungLust -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:30:45 PM)

double post... lame



LotusSong -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:35:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxwell67

Sure it sometimes brings the idiots and crazy's out of the woodwork, but the intelligentsia will not dignify your criticism with a serious response (though they might address something else that is being discussed within the same thread). 


"Intelligencia"? .. HERE? Damn.. I was thinking Illuminati....[:D]



YoungLust -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 1:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I don't see how the IDEA that since my pubes haven't grayed and my delicate features haven't wrinkled, that my opinions carry less weight.
opinions are not deemed weightless by a lack of  grey hair and wrinkles. Rather, by intelligence or lack there of.
Someone with a Billy Ray Cyrus style hairstyle is talking about a lack of intelligence in anyone else?

For an anti-troll, you're trolling pretty damn hard.



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