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Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 6:54:40 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

So in another thread there is a rather confused and confusing question on someone going from online to real life. Further investigation reveals that the profile of the poster overstates their credentials, or at least states different credentials. Perhaps English is not the first language of this particular poster, and they really are what they say, but it raised an interesting question in my mind.

What is the role of those who have been around the block in pointing out inconsistencies and incompetence? Is it our place to "mark" those who seem suspicious or insincere? Do we let the obvious ones go buy, figuring that anyone who falls into that trap is a lost cause anyway?

Just wondering what the thoughts were out there...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

Post #: 1

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:01:44 PM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

My rule is I tell people warning signs and then let them judge for themselves.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 2

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:12:32 PM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

I've had and seen this discussion in many groups. Invariable, it comes down to the clout of the governing body. Unless we have a legally bound system in the community, we have no stand in proclaiming who is and who isn't such and such, even if it's obvious what's true. Unless we require everyone in the community, ranging from kinksters in the bedroom to Grand Master Poohba, to legaly pledge to the governing body, we can't make anyone actually DO anything, nor can we make them STOP doing something.

So, we can choose to speak out, or not. At best, people will take heed what we say, at worse, we get sued for slander.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 3

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:15:42 PM

PlayfulOne

Posts: 1047
Status: offline

You raised an interesting point. What is our duty to one another? I think it depends on the situation. Sometimes you see people who are just inexperineced and at some point we were all there. Hopefully they will seek out the knowledge they need or have the good sense to take things slowly and not get in over their head. There is nothing wrong with being inexperienced though I think it can be intimidating to come into a group such as this and admit that no matter how dominant you may feel you are on the lower level of knowledge and experience. I think sometimes one can look around a group such as this and think if I admit the truth i will never find someone. All we can do is make them feel welcome and offer whatever guidance they wish.

Then we have the ones who are to put things bluntly, just full of crap. Noticing conflicting stories and statments should be a red flag to anyone who is talking to them. I see something glaring and I will point it out. You can point out errors and stories that don't add up but in the end we are all adults and people will respond to them as they wish. I don't think we need to try and be the police but I do believe we have an obligation to make sure blatant inacuracies and stories that cnflict are brought to everyones attention, from there well people are informed and make their own choices.

K

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 4

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:20:58 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

My rule is I tell people warning signs and then let them judge for themselves.

I think that is probably the right tone...and the one I try to strike myself (usually with sarcastic humor).

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 5

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:37:11 PM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

I think that is probably the right tone...and the one I try to strike myself (usually with sarcastic humor).

Taggard

Taggard, you do that well. I commented on one and ended up with the person trying to send me a computer virus. Anyway, we all feel strongly about things and with time character surfaces.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 6

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 7:56:17 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

What is the role of those who have been around the block in pointing out inconsistencies and incompetence? Is it our place to "mark" those who seem suspicious or insincere? Do we let the obvious ones go buy, figuring that anyone who falls into that trap is a lost cause anyway?

I feel no obligation to lead those less experienced by the hand. However, if asked for my opinion, I will certainly give one, making sure to be as objective as I possibly can.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 7

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 8:03:18 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

it is all just an opinion at the end.... Maybe our judgement is right, maybe it's wrong! Either way, I will state my opinion. others can do with it what they will.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 8

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 8:15:40 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

Ah another role for the Patriot Act, for the internets.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 9

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 8:16:33 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

it is all just an opinion at the end.... Maybe our judgement is right, maybe it's wrong! Either way, I will state my opinion. others can do with it what they will.

Although this is true Knight.... some are quick to be harsh to newbies on here.... Though some do come busting in with holler than thou attitudes.... some don't. They ask simple questions... they get told to either google it.... look through previous threads... forget the fact that there are people on here that don't mind answering... or others with fresh new ideas... thoughts.. opinions.. will answer the newbie's questions... comment on their opinions.. but it's been discussed before... 100 times before.. if everyone went back through threads all the time.. the threads would damn near stop.. LOL

All in all... policing can't be done.. exactly.. and all because one sees red flags.. doesn't mean they're actually red flags... they're just red flags to the one spotting them. Because they don't think like the one seeing red flag... act the same.. do the same.. it's not a red flag to all.

But hell.. it's just my opinion...

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/14/2006 8:18:31 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/14/2006 10:24:33 PM

MistressOfGa

Posts: 2929
Status: offline

quote:

they get told to either google it.... look through previous threads... forget the fact that there are people on here that don't mind answering... or others with fresh new ideas... thoughts.. opinions.. will answer the newbie's questions... comment on their opinions.

I agree. I get tired of seeing the same macro answer "Do a search, google it" to new peoples questions. There are many many new people here who would like the opportunity to answer questions and join in the conversation. There would be no conversation if everyone just used this place as a library and did research here, by looking up past threads. Most people know how to use a search feature on message forums, some dont, but for those who do, IMO, it is alittle insulting to be told to do a search when they ask a question. If I wanted to do a search I would do it. If I want some fresh answers from people who werent on the boards during the time of the original thread postings, then I ask my own question and hope that I dont get the macro answer thrown at me.

_____________________________

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 11

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 12:32:14 AM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

i am one i let people do what they want everyone is and adult and sometimes its best not to get in the way of things or lifepath. we are too quick to give an idea or an opionion like some self rightous hound baying at the moon with all its tonality to let everyone know his or hers voice is the best. Karma is something that you should take heed of with comes to people being together fate is the true master of what that desteny is. so here is my point take it slow do not move fast learn to grow together as friends family and loveers after al this life is to short of the the bs in ds yep yep

(in reply to MistressOfGa)

Post #: 12

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 12:42:19 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Folks here are adults, well in theory anyway. One of the best teaching divices I know is learning by mistakes. If you know some one who is a piece of shit and a potential danger to others; and If you can document this from personal exoperience, then I'd say that you have a good case to warn others about it off site. However I usually find in non lifestyle areas that a quiet word to some one who I know about the possible dangers or the same in reply to a question can be all that is needed for the person to take additional care. However, the danger here is that some milicious people will and do use this "Friendly Warning" to destroy reputations and opportunities for some one they either dont like personally or because their clique doesn't like that person. (This comment is made from personal hard experience with a clkique being determined to drive me out of the local BDSM communities because I identift as Gorean and also the age differential between myself and Neets ~ Documented fact with names, places and peope they have spread their venom to). There will of course, always be those who refuse to listen and will go ahead anyway and all you can do is to be about to pick up pieces if you feel so inclined.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LATEXBABY64)

Post #: 13

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 3:07:28 AM

sweetpettjenny

Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline

I personally would have saved myself a year and a half of headaches, lost money and aggrivation, if someone, (which there was plenty of people who knew him) would have just told me he was a predator. I personally would have listened if i was taken aside and told ...jen , the man you are seeing is a known predator in the lifestyle, i certainly would have ask questions and made a decision to walk away. It is our place to warn others in a tactful way. my opinion....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

What is the role of those who have been around the block in pointing out inconsistencies and incompetence? Is it our place to "mark" those who seem suspicious or insincere? Do we let the obvious ones go buy, figuring that anyone who falls into that trap is a lost cause anyway?

I feel no obligation to lead those less experienced by the hand. However, if asked for my opinion, I will certainly give one, making sure to be as objective as I possibly can.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 14

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 3:21:30 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

I don't like the word 'policing' it has overtones of cliques and pack mentality.

If I see something I consider out of order I will put forward my opinion on it, If I have information about someone and I see another heading into a situation where that information might help them avoid a bad situation I'll make sure they have access to that information.

What they do about it is upto them, they are fully free to totaly disregard it or not. It is just one persons opinion.

But it is something each memeber of the community must decide for themselves over and ensure it IS their opinion and that they are not simply hopping on some convenient bandwagon.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 15

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 3:24:07 AM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

Having just been on the edge of a big mess of tall tales, stretched truths, thin wallets and broken hearts I learned that for the most part nobody wanted to speak up early on. Some people are just quite likeable even when your gut says ~how odd~. I agree with Mr Warren and my favorite ole Bear that a warning given in a personal manner is the way, but unless asked which takes public knowledge to have access to the information that is usually hidden in such cases, there just isnt anyone to tell! I know I question my reality against other's, our perceptions are always different. All we can do is find a way to tell our stories and let our guts police and protect ourselves.
Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)

Post #: 16

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 4:11:28 AM

Oberonrex

Posts: 164
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline

I agree, as I usually do, with John Warren and with IronBear. What I do is try to point out the warning signs for others, and preach safety, particularly for online and meeting someone from online. One of the reasons I strongly urge people to get involved with local groups is that it makes it easier to get a feel for people, and to get information. IronBear, however, points out the limitations of such. I have seen groups deal effectively and effeciently with predators and abusers that try to insinuate themselves into the community. I have also seen them give a pass to some who did not deserve such, and vilify some who did not deserve it because of politics. When someone is being castigated, look for the documentation and check it out. Do not rush to judgement. That can be particularly hard online, as forums, chat, and such can give us the illusion we know someone when truly we don't. I know of a recent case on a weapons forum where it was discovered that someone was not who they said they were -- and this person had been a longtime and trusted member of that community. Unless and until I have met you in person and spent time with you, then I really don't know you.

So, my responsibility is to point out warning signs and how to be safe. If I know of a real problem person and I can document same, then I will quietly and privately express my opinion of them. If a person disregards all I point out and goes ahead anyway, that is their choice and it is my choice if I care to offer any sympathy or pick up any pieces afterwards.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 17

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 5:01:07 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

This is a tough one. When you are in midst of swirling lies, but ache to believe, it probably won't do much good to have people point things out to you. I've learned a hard lesson from the recent past. I will never deny my gut ache again. People with high ethics and strong moral codes try to do the right thing, but unfortunately there are many who think they are being motivated by other factors. If I were in a situation where more details would help me make an informed decision I would hope that someone would have the courage to speak up. And I also hope that I would have the courage to listen.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Oberonrex)

Post #: 18

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 5:36:06 AM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I personally would have saved myself a year and a half of headaches, lost money and aggrivation, if someone, (which there was plenty of people who knew him) would have just told me he was a predator. I personally would have listened if i was taken aside and told ...jen , the man you are seeing is a known predator in the lifestyle, i certainly would have ask questions and made a decision to walk away. It is our place to warn others in a tactful way. my opinion....

Here's an example of why I will not "trash-talk" someone. There is a maledom in my local community whom I have known for several years. Until the past couple years, I'd never seen this individual interact one-on-one with a submissive under his collar, and I'd never seen him play. However, some of the things he "bragged" about gave me cause to be concerned. I suspected he might be abusive, but I had no evidence to back up the suspicions.

One day, a newbie came to me and asked me what I thought of this guy. I wanted to tell her to run like hell, because I suspected abusive tendencies. However, ethically I could not do so, so I told her what I COULD tell her, which was that I had never seen him with a slave of his own, I'd never seen him play, and that she should proceed with caution. She eventually became involved with him, learned he was not what she wanted (my suspicions were confirmed, apparently, although I saw no physical signs of abuse on said newbie, even though we saw each other frequently and spoke all the time, and she never said exactly what kind of "abuse" had allegedly taken place), and moved on after just a couple months.

That individual is now with a submissive who acts like she believes he walks on water, and they've been together for about a year. Has he changed? Not at all. He's still the same abrasive person he's always been. Is he a predator? I think not. Is he abusive? The jury's still out on that. Two women say yes. His current slave is happy as a clam. Could it be he was simply more "aggressive" than the two newbies who came before her could handle? I would not play with him if you paid me, but that doesn't mean he's not right for someone else.

Unless I have absolute, unquestionable proof that someone is a danger to others, I will not offer up a negative opinion of that person.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)

Post #: 19

RE: Policing the BDSM community? - 2/15/2006 5:41:17 AM

phoenixslave

Posts: 66
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline

Theres also this. When are you sure someone is being called out and not being flamed by someone scorned? i think the real fools tend to show thier colrs pretty quickly. i do worry about those who fall for them though.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 20

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