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RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 3:19:20 PM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline 		Missokyst
Many things you wrote I view the same way. All relationships of all forms that touch my heart stay there. I too am the type to give my shirt off if they needed. I will hold no prisioner, since I too believe and letting people fly, and if they come back great.

Thank you for your thoughts.
oceanwinds

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 3:22:28 PM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline 		DesFIP

quote:

But really, if you've never met, don't know if he likes puppies and if he's nice to waitresses, if you don't know anything about his morals, ethics, likes and dislikes - then you aren't invested in a real person but in the false persona you've created and hung on his neck.


very well said, Desfip. That is why the 'real world' always comes first for me, and why i cannot do cyber. Thank you for sharing.

oceanwynds



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I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 3:41:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I have invested quickly and extremely slowly in relationships. Neither has worked to my benefit in the past. I think both ways are just as detrimental.

I think there's a middle ground where you learn to grow together as a couple and you both recognize when to open up more and when to pull back a little.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 4:00:58 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		I have divested myself of two fairly long term friendships; and yeah, it hurt like hell!  The first was a couple who had been my best friends for over 20 years.  I had a great deal of investment in that friendship!  He got weird to the point of scary.  He wouldn’t explain and his wife defended him.  I had to walk away and that separation was pretty traumatic so I went to therapy.  The second was a co-worker who needed a place to live and we were housemates for over 2 years.  She was a fun person to hang out with, but then she got angry at me and instead of talking about it became very passive aggressive. My “wrong doing” was that I would not/ could not listen or help when she told me her lover was a self-mutilator.  I gave her information and articles that the only and best approach for that is professional therapy.  She was furious and started treating me badly.  I decided I did not need that negative stuff in my life. 
With my D/s relationships, I am invested in pleasing them and would like to continue. There is an emotional tie as well; I just don’t let that overwhelm me!
If either of these men left my life I would be sad but I would ‘survive’.

< Message edited by catize -- 6/28/2009 4:02:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 4:14:58 PM   
scarlethiney


Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline 		Master was very different from any one I had ever met. It took a lot of adjustment on my part. We "dated" for a year. Moved in together the second year and married the third year.  I do consider it an investment.  We took our time and it is still an adjustment.  We will be married three years in August. I think all relationships are an adjustment and take continued work and sacrifice. Neither of us is willing to walk no matter how challenging things get.
We have definitely had our moments, but both agree our being together, the love we share and working toward a mutual goal is much more important than either of us singularly or our ego. I do try to work on myself to have patience with a man whose first marriage was me and who has never had children. I work daily on my role in this marriage/relationship and I see evidence of Master working on himself.
I have to say the thing that impresses me the most about Master is his unconditional love for my son. Few men (in my experience) could love and accept a child who was not their own and be as unconditional in that love as Master is with my son who he loves like his own.
We make it a point to talk and to clarify and  to do our best to be clear about what we both want and need. Yes, he is my Master, but it is also a partnership.This may not be the traditional D/s relationship but it works for us.

scarlet



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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 4:25:11 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds


Has being or not being invested right away in a relationship been determental to you as a person?

Finally  for those who do become invested in a relationship, how easy is it for you to walk away, when things become at a stand still, or your Dom. or s-type needs space to work out a life situation?

Do you find it difficult to be patient and give the person their space to grow, and/ or adapt to their 24/7 life situations? 

If you are the type that chooses to wait, are you still investing in the relationship, even though there might not be one visable?

Blessings,
oceanwinds

Thanks for this. This is a great angle on relationship and great questions.
First off I suppose it depends on what you and I mean by investment. I don't count financial: that's something I have always done, unquestionable. Going out to work, handing over the money... that's part of me being a service type. I get very uncomfortable being 'paid for'. It makes me feel insecure.
But I don't think you just meant financial?
to me the only investment that geels like an investment is the emotional investment I put in. And I have one major default pattern which is to invest emotionally pretty much from the first contact or meeting. I've done this in vanilla marriages and inbdsm relationships. And if I am honest I have done it despite not really wanting to... as if it's an expectation both as my role of wife and as submissive/slave.
Written in the cold black and white of a forum response like this I can see how it looks. But I'm the one living it.
Anything of a slow burn?.. well it makes me yawn like someone in the back of a math class for a double period on a sunny afternoon. I've been asleep without knowing it and the only thing to wake me is my head rolling off my shoulders in boredom.
Emotional investment has at times wrecked me I have to admit. Non reciprocity does the most damage. And since I am an s type to male dominants there's not really proven yo be equanimity of investment emotionally. Males on the whole just do it differently.
I have continued to invest when the relationship has been formally ended either by divorce or agreement. Investing in someone after a relationship is over is a type of love I guess 'cos in my book love is unconditional.
There have been two rare men in my life whom I will never be able to stop investing in no matter what happens. i know there's no point in waiting for one.. he's married and happy and a uong father and it was not meant to be.
But for the other.... a Master I recently asked for release from? I will always wait and wait in vain. There will be no opportunity that my investment will ever reap benefits, or be returned. That won't stop me waiting.
As for the rest? I am afraid to say the investment stops.. kerchung.. as fasy and as furiously as it was given.
I don't have regrets. probably won't change (anything is possible). I have lived a full and amazing life, have three amazing children and have had some of the most amazing bdsm and sex I think it is possibe for any woman to have had.
Those things were worth the investment.




< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 6/28/2009 4:28:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 4:48:46 PM   
atypicalsub


Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
Status: offline 		Usually I am reserved and slow to form attachments. However there have been a few occations that I have become emotionally involved very quickly.

Today marks one year to the day that I first wore my Mistress's collar of intent. We very quickly decided we were highly compatible and that I would go to live with her. The collar of intent was an agreement for a trial period. It was three months after putting on the collar that I moved in with her. At that point there were agreements on the services I would provide, the activities I was willing to particpate in, and my limits. Even though the relationship was highly sexual, I was still emotionally reserved. As greater trust developed she gradually drew it out of me.

Not long before meeting my Mistress I allowed myself to get invested too fast in another relationship. It was very exciting and promised to give me an abundance of the pleasures I craved most. Unfortunately after a few months I realized his promises were hallow; the reality would never live up to the pretty pictures.



_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 5:05:02 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I have invested quickly and extremely slowly in relationships. Neither has worked to my benefit in the past. I think both ways are just as detrimental.

I think there's a middle ground where you learn to grow together as a couple and you both recognize when to open up more and when to pull back a little.




Ditto....

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 5:53:55 PM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		If a person is someone that I want to get to know better, to form a relationship with, then I'm investing in the relationshp.   I don't know any other way.   If I don't invest in the relationship, then how else will the relationship grow ...or for  that matter, not grow.    How fast or slow depends on lots of variables for both people.   I can count on one hand the number of people that I've known throughout my life that I "invested" in and have since been able to look back and wonder why I didn't see things that would have told me, they were not worth the "investement".    

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 6:03:00 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I see investing in people generally and especially in someone regarding a possible M/s dynamic with in much the same way as I see investing in a business opportunity. To explain this I am a fairly typical  Virgo, everything has a place and everything in it's place. I have in my mind a complete set of books, much as does an accountant or bookkeeper and need the ledger to be balanced. By auditing those books i can usually work out how things are going, what and where time is needed to be invested as well as anything else to stabalize or enhance the dynamic. If it becomes obvious that the dynamic will not work out than I am able to write off my losses, make all reasonable attempts to make creditors happy and move on. Cold and calculating? Aye it is but on the other side of the balance sheet, I do and am prepared to invest a large amount of myself and so if I get burned it is a serious burn. I also learn from my own mistakes, never again will I allow some one to cost me financially to the degree that I am almost bankrupt as I did with my second wife. 

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/28/2009 6:13:56 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

This is not a thread on the plus or minus of becoming invested right away in a relationship. We all have an opinion.

What I like to know is those who do, would you want to change that part in you, providing you could?

For those who don't get invested right away, would you want to change that part in you, providing you could?

Has being or not being invested right away in a relationship been determental to you as a person?


I think that most of us have multiple investments going on in our lives. My key investment is to the House for which I've taken responsibility, which one would expect from someone that accepts such a responsibility. What this means is that, while I invest time and energy in getting to know someone, there is a middle ground for me, because the most important thing, for me, will be the family of my House. That means that I never reach that point where I immerse myself so deeply in a relationship that the House loses my attention. It also means that I prefer that those who are considering becoming a part of us make that their priority as well. Because I have that in my life, I think that it allows me to both invest in new relationships relatively quickly -- at least to the point where I can explore the potentials of the relationship, and yet still keep a polite distance that allows me to be clear about whether this new experience appears to be something that will be beneficial for the Household and its direction. It seems to work, and provides, thus far, a healthy place from which both I and those I am considering can make good decisions about whether our household is the right place to experience from.



quote:

Do you find it difficult to be patient and give the person their space to grow, and/ or adapt to their 24/7 life situations?


Not at all. Actually, I find that most individuals want to move far more quickly than I am willing to move. I find that I am often the 'brakes' in the relationship, slowing things down so that crucial points are not dismissed over-quickly or overlooked in the process.

quote:

If you are the type that chooses to wait, are you still investing in the relationship, even though there might not be one visable?


I am absolutely invested, from the start, in new relationships. Seeking and finding out whether a relationship is a healthy fit -is- an investment. Investment doesn't -start- with a commitment, nor does it -end- with a commitment. It is a process, by which people continue to interact and grow, while adapting to the changes and dynamics of life and community (both the personal community of a household/family and the greater community outside the immediate family).

quote:

Do you work on your own growth and the 24/7 life situations that are occuring in your life?


Absolutely. Currently, I'm working on learning another language and with a mentor who is guiding me through improving my writing -- another ongoing investment that I am making in myself, my House, and my future.

quote:

Is waiting even an option for you?


My return question is "waiting for what?" If it is all a process, then the time we spend building isn't -waiting-... it is -developing-. Developing is the process of creating, and creating isn't a passive process. "Waiting" implies passivity -- it implies sitting back and letting life happen -to- you, rather than being a part of the process. No, I don't -wait-. I -progress-... I am active in creating the life I want, and encourage those whom I am involved with to be active in their own process as well.

Sometimes, progress means that we move in separate directions, and that is ok. What is important is that everyone involved remains true to who they are and what they are striving for.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 6/28/2009 6:14:27 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 1:12:58 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW



My return question is "waiting for what?"
Dame Calla

Waiting for him to give me a return on my investment?
Waiting for him to invest emotionally.
Waiting for reciprocity... I haven't used the word equality. That isn't it.
Reciprocity.


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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 4:18:32 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline 		Thank You CallaFirestormBW for replying to my post.
quote:


quote:

Is waiting even an option for you?


My return question is "waiting for what?" If it is all a process, then the time we spend building isn't -waiting-... it is -developing-. Developing is the process of creating, and creating isn't a passive process. "Waiting" implies passivity -- it implies sitting back and letting life happen -to- you, rather than being a part of the process. No, I don't -wait-. I -progress-... I am active in creating the life I want, and encourage those whom I am involved with to be active in their own process as well.

Sometimes, progress means that we move in separate directions, and that is ok. What is important is that everyone involved remains true to who they are and what they are striving for.

Dame Calla



Being an Aries, it is next to impossible for me to be passive. By waiting, I meant what you basically implied regarding yourself. Letting the other person have the space they need, while I am doing something in my own life that will bring me joy, excitement and new experiences.

Waiting to me is not per sey waiting for the person to return my investment, since if I invest I do not seek equal return. I understand that they might need to not be so totally involved with me at the present time, because they have other important areas to deal with that are pressing. In knowing this, I am not out looking to replace them right away either. In my life I am monogamous, and find it best to not be owned. I can still give all of me as they wish, not what I might wish at that time. My life includes relationships of all types, yet it is not totally focused on being 100% active in a relationship at all times. There are other venues in my life that carry as much importance. I do hope this answered your question.




_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 4:48:04 AM   
oceanwinds


Posts: 530
Status: offline 		Hello Prinsexx
Thank You for posting.

I basically look at investment as an emotional, mental and spiritual venue. Though it can be compared to monetary investment in the context of investing in a relationship account and watching it grow. All of my close relationships, family, friends, romantic and D/s have this type of investment. I will keep adding more to it, if I feel it is healthy for my emotional, mental and spiritual growth. In this view, it is not what the return is from a person, based on what I am giving, but more on the growth of both people in the relationship. If unhealthy for either of us, then I will close the 'account'. Normally, after a progress of investing and observing for awhile, do I then make the decision to keep the 'account' active or not. If I decide on that then I will always keep my investment, though the terms might be on hold for a bit, instead of active. I do not close out 'accounts' when I become totally invested. They will alway be kept with respect and honor, be it if they are active in my life or not. Few 'accounts' make it to this point with me though. I am one with few close relationships, but each of those still live in harmony with who i am. I will honor them even after death do us part. The others who do not reach this investment are let go, with me discovering what was to be learned through this situation. In my life everything has a purpose that is presented to me on my path of growth.

Again thank you for your post.
Blessings
oceanwinds

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 5:06:31 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		FR, after skim thru

I used to enter into relationships (friendship & romance, both) much more quickly, but that served me poorly . . . . I've grown into an appreciation of my need to take my time, to move slowly & with patience.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 5:43:41 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		The moment i meet another person, i know what kind of contact i would wish for and what kind of contact is possible.

So i am very quick.

I would wish for nothing else, because it served me well.

My mother having a lot more years experience and being also a member of the quick school, was so brillant in her exact judgement, that during puberty i stopped bringing new people to her, because she robbed me of the fun of exploration. She never failed and she always saw things harder and clearer than me.

On the other side i was always more open to the bright light, that people brought.

Problems arise when different speeds collide, experience helped me there too.

The hard thing i had to learn is to differentiate the best possible contact and the real possible contact. But i had to learn that for all relations so it was one process.

Love is for me always the same energy, i love my Michael as much as i love my Kornelia, although i have only sex with one of them. And even a very short moment of meeting can accompany me as long as a long term relationship. Along my way i met so extraordinary personalities, who sometimes gifted me with only 1 hour of their life, and it enriches me still.

So, as my goal is to be in the moment, without hopes in the future and without regrets concerning the past, in the end every moment means as much as the other.

It was always easy for me to walk away, because i could always imagine being without the person in question. I had the exception MIchael and even started a thread about it. During his last operation i noticed i am back to normal, i do not want to be without him, but i can imagine being without him.

Having had 16 years patience that my first husband, who was mildly kinky, accepted what i told him at our first date, that i am a sadist and a masochist and finally giving up, i would say i am patient. For many years i tried every avenue i could think of, including to make a kind of arrangement of S/M without sex, he simply choose to live in denial. I decided that had waited long enough, gave enough possibilities and had foregone my desires for a long timespan.

How much time i give to a person depends only on the ability and the will of the said person to grow and adapt. As long as i see progress all is good. I always work on me, i know of no other way of being.

I will never wait for a person, if somebody do not feel the same conncection as i feel, i retreat.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 6:52:15 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		funny you should bring that topic up  after investing in a marriage and then a girl for a long ass time.  It's time to invest in pet rocks or something

BadOne


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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 7:00:45 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Ah, shoot, I forgot to answer the other part of the question.

I hate to walk away from relationships, but I've done it when it's necessary. I've been dumped, & I've dumped, both friends & lovers. Anymore, I prefer to do the dumping, if it has to happen. (I have power & control issues.)

I'd rather it be forever, but that's maybe not the most reasonable expectation to have.


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 7:27:07 AM   
Domitianus


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/28/2008
Status: offline 		I am a bit uncomfortable with the language of "investing" in a relationship, though I must confess to sometimes viewing it that way. But "investment" is about getting a payback...it's strictly about what I get out of it...the whole "return on investment' thing.  It is very self-centered and self-focused...something we all tend to be susceptible to.  I know I certainly am.

But when I'm able to guest past that, I find it better to think of a relationship as a living organism. In that context, it's not about investment, it's about feeding and nurturing. Living things are either growing or dying.  There is no "status quo". Relationships are either growing or dying. They don't just sit out there on a shelf waiting to be picked up when it is convenient and put down when it's not.  You have to feed the relationship or it begins to die. It's not about an investment failing to pay back; it's about a living thing coming to an end.

What it takes to keep the relationship thriving may be different in every case. And there are seasons where growth is slow, or perhaps there is even some pruning. But if you approach it strictly for a "what am I getting out of this" return on investment, most often the relationship is doomed for the long run.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Re: investing in a relationship - 6/29/2009 7:47:47 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Domitianus

I am a bit uncomfortable with the language of "investing" in a relationship, though I must confess to sometimes viewing it that way. But "investment" is about getting a payback...it's strictly about what I get out of it...the whole "return on investment' thing. It is very self-centered and self-focused...something we all tend to be susceptible to. I know I certainly am.


To me, investment isn't necessarily synonymous with "ROI" (return on investment). Investment is what we put into something, and it doesn't necessarily have to come with a payback. On the other hand, I am not a big believer in altruism. I think that everything we do is done because it will, in some way, benefit us. If there is no benefit, we typically no longer participate (invest) in that behavior, relationship, or activity. Everything we do is actually self-centered/focused, including how we integrate with others. Because of that, I tend to -recognize- where something is beneficial to myself and my family and where it isn't, and be very clear about the fact that my decisions will be based on whether a situation is working for everyone involved -- which means that it has to work for -me-, too. This way, I tend to avoid situations where I end up feeling like the relationship is a one-way street, and become resentful, and encourage the same kind of forthright evaluation from the people I get involved with.

Dame Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Domitianus)
Profile   Post #: 40
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