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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 6:52:02 AM

Elegant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixslave

There was a time when the semi mythical "Old Guard" were nothing more than a pesky bunch of young upstarts with no respect whatsoever for tradition...

Where did you unearth any supportive facts behind that statement?

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 6:56:41 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixslave

There was a time when the semi mythical "Old Guard" were nothing more than a pesky bunch of young upstarts with no respect whatsoever for tradition...

Where did you unearth any supportive facts behind that statement?

LOL I think it's just one of those amusing statements that you just KNOW is true because of human history and cultural growth. Before there was old guard, there were pesky rebels making a whole new way for themselves.

It's only over time that traditions form and cultural values solidify.

Only to be overturned by the next generation of pesky rebels making a whole new way for themselves with no respect for their elders.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 7:29:06 AM

phoenixslave

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i learned this from the Master of my own first dom. Master Thomas is alive and well at eighty four. Jack Rinella wrote an interesting article on the subject titled The Myth of the Old Guard. Every generation takes charge eventually and pass from upstart to sage.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 7:56:30 AM

Elegant

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Yes..that I understand (and I have read about everything Jack has written).

I just got a bit riled up at the seemingly poopoo way you presented the semi mythical "Old Guard"

In the words of Timm Gun (Project Runway): 'Carry On!

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 8:02:56 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
In the words of Timm Gun (Project Runway): 'Carry On!

Tim Gunn is my Master :)

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 8:05:26 AM

Elegant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant
In the words of Timm Gun (Project Runway): 'Carry On!

Tim Gunn is my Master :)

Im sending a petition to Santino! heehee

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 8:12:27 AM

LaMalinche

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Hmmm. . . rereading Plato's Republic.

Yeppers, he complained about the "younger generation" also. (Or at least one of his characters did. . . whatever)

Stop worrying. . . obviously this individual is not right for you.

Sleep. . . blessed sleep.

Best,

LaMalinche

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 9:42:30 AM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

"I wasn't aware, in all My yrs in the lifestyle, that submissives were so chosey, till the newer, less respectful generation came along"....This is a part of an e-mail i received today. I am so confused. Is it not up to me be picky in choosing the One i submit to?

This is manipulative man crap. This person is a dick, plain and simple. This is the reply of someone who's been constantly turned down. A question you might want to ask him is "Why do you find yourself rejected so much?" I'm sure he'd come back with some equally dickheaded response to try to make you feel like there is something wrong with you. C'est la vie....

Of COURSE it's up to you. Hon, if you are ready, then by all means find your local organization, get in touch with them, go to their munch and meet folks real time. It will do two things for you in my opinion:

A) It will get you out of the fantasy ideals that a lot of female subs come to this with and get you to realize that Kinky folks really aren't that differant from vanilla folks. We just have better toy boxes

B) Will put you in an environment where you can meet other real time folks who are practicing BDSM, and allow you to make some friends so that you can actually form a relationship with people who care about you and will give you opportunities to ask questions and dispel myths that Mr. Dickhead would like to continue to reinforce.

Kassie

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 10:13:50 AM

phoenixslave

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Elegant,

Sorry i riled ya. i have nothing but respect for "Old Guard". i called it semi mythical because so much has been piled onto it. Some good, some bad. It gets abused alot i think. As would i if i ever spoke of it flippantly and rightfully so.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 10:41:28 AM

LATEXBABY64

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being picky is a good thing. as people have said it can either save you from a world of hurt. it can also save from depression and being bitter about this lifestyle cause there a lot of swingers and tourest in our lifestyle run forest run yep yep. most of the old gaurd have gotten out because our lifestyle has become to fashionable. b e more do more do the right thing always
namaste

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 12:28:37 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: iamready

"I wasn't aware, in all My yrs in the lifestyle, that submissives were so choosey, till the newer, less respectful generation came along"....This is a part of an e-mail i received today. I am so confused. Is it not up to me be picky in choosing the One i submit to?

I don't see a problem in being selective and careful about who you would submit to, especially if you have aspirations of being depthful and true in that submission. A dominant should likewise be extremely critical of potential submissives.

Having said this, it's important to not put castle walls up during initial contact. By this I mean the girl who messages me out of the blue with this prolific, impatient desire to submit to me—only to start playing coy and opulently opaque after I've indicated I might be interested in talking with her. This is an enormous problem with many females I've encountered. I suspect it is, despite their claims of submission, the status quo sexual negotiation factor in their psyche—learned from the "vanilla" culture, in which men are assumed to be the needy seekers of pleasure and they the source. If you take care not to play these foolish games of pussy politics, and combine this with the resolution of sincere interest and reasonable caution in pursuing it, you should do very well.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 12:37:37 PM

spinny

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if a submissive wasn't a little picky about the Dominant she/he submits to, she/he would be putting themselves in a very dangerous situation. i do not see it as disrespectful i see it as good sense to be careful when it comes to 'choosing' a Dominant. Afterall, im sure Dominants are more than a little picky about the submissive they collar.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 12:58:12 PM

slavejali

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A lot of the time people put more thought into a career decision or what they are gonna spend their money on than they do towards a potential life partner...silly huh.

Happy to see thats not true of the posters here so far.

A thought just came to mind I'm gonna share:

When I was in India, I spoke to a lady about *arranged marriages*. I really listened to what she was saying as the concept was so far out of my reality coming from a western world. My original thought was that it had the potential for abuse of women or setting the woman up for a life without love...anyways...

So the lady spoke to me about how the parents choose a partner for their child. They take into consideration *lifestyle*, education, societal status, skills, belief systems, personality traits even down to matching the children through astrology. She told me that having a solid foundation of the things that matter in everyday life were important when making a match, that if these things are in place, love & respect will naturally develop, a love that will endure through the hardships of life, rather than one that is built on lust and the transient nature of desire. (I'm so not doing her credit, this was a very long conversation).

Anyway, my point here is... in our culture, we dont have arranged marriages or parents who will take the time to ensure the match has some lasting qualities, parents or someone who will look beyond "oooo that person is soo attractive to me...or turns me on...or makes my mind go flippy flop."...all those kinda things that can fade away.

But...perhaps..people of our western culture are starting to do that themselves....by assessing and looking at a potential relationship from a *head space* first before the emotions set-in.

Whether slave or vanilla...its all the same.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 1:12:19 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Having said this, it's important to not put castle walls up during initial contact. By this I mean the girl who messages me out of the blue with this prolific, impatient desire to submit to me—only to start playing coy and opulently opaque after I've indicated I might be interested in talking with her. This is an enormous problem with many females I've encountered. I suspect it is, despite their claims of submission, the status quo sexual negotiation factor in their psyche—learned from the "vanilla" culture, in which men are assumed to be the needy seekers of pleasure and they the source. If you take care not to play these foolish games of pussy politics, and combine this with the resolution of sincere interest and reasonable caution in pursuing it, you should do very well.

To my way of thinking, you are using male logic to explain female bahavior. You use the term "many", which indicates you see this often. It may be that you see it often, because you are reading it in error.

Some women like the cat and mouse chase of an early relationship. It's romantic and exciting. It has the possiblity fo making them feel special. It has nothing to do with "games of pussy politics." or how women view men based on things learned in the vanilla world. Those are things you said, to explain behavior you have not fully thought through, in my opinion.

There is a certain bottom line ... in that if a women lets you chase her at all (or initiates the chase), you have probably already caught her ... it's now just a question of not fucking it up. At that point the chase becomes about romance and excitement.

Don't you want your woman to be romantic, and excited? Is there something wrong with her feeling special?

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 3:35:53 PM

cloudboy

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The question is, are the ladies contacting Amayos "flighty" or do they become so after meeting him? I can't believe you're haggling with him over "pussy politics," a phrase with such beautiful alliteration and colorful, cavernous meaning.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 3:41:59 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

There is a certain bottom line ...

If I had to piece the rest of it together, I'd gather in your equation that marriage is the final pike a guy puts in a relationship after the chase is "won." Hence winning the chase is losing the battle.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 5:16:58 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The question is, are the ladies contacting Amayos "flighty" or do they become so after meeting him?

Most become so after speaking with me, I assure you. ;)

< Message edited by amayos -- 2/16/2006 5:45:40 PM >

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 5:41:51 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

To my way of thinking, you are using male logic to explain female behavior.

...There is a certain bottom line ... in that if a women lets you chase her at all (or initiates the chase), you have probably already caught her ... it's now just a question of not fucking it up. At that point the chase becomes about romance and excitement.

Don't you want your woman to be romantic, and excited? Is there something wrong with her feeling special?

Without a doubt one cannot argue your logic, but your above argument is indicative of more accepted doctrine—the stuff of which I am seldom made of, and I make certain to spell this out quite clearly early on.

Is there a problem with making a girl feel special? Certainly not—once it has been properly earned. Is there a problem with manipulating a girl into thinking she's special, so that I can abuse her for my own purposes? Certainly so. Enter Perfect Enemy in the making.

In my experience, females are quite intuitive and can see through the bulk of manipulative ploys. That some wish to be deceived is their curse to bear away from me—I choose those who are awake and see me as their true, possible Master; leave the "dating games" to others.

quote:

...in that if a women lets you chase her at all (or initiates the chase), you have probably already caught her ... it's now just a question of not fucking it up.

And therein lies a male's path of supplication to the female.

So pure, so rare.

< Message edited by amayos -- 2/16/2006 5:56:01 PM >

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 5:49:48 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
If I had to piece the rest of it together, I'd gather in your equation that marriage is the final pike a guy puts in a relationship after the chase is "won." Hence winning the chase is losing the battle.

Apparently ... I missed the memo that this was an war where actual battles were fought. I had clearly and foolishly it seems, thought that one party was actually supposed to attempt to feed the wants and needs of the other.

Looks like I'm destined to take the remedial course.

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RE: less respectful generation - 2/16/2006 6:15:22 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
...in that if a women lets you chase her at all (or initiates the chase), you have probably already caught her ... it's now just a question of not fucking it up.

And therein lies a male's path of supplication to the female.

So pure, so rare.

It's really sad that anyone would feel this way ... that participation in the healthy give and take that makes a relationship fun, is a form of male supplication.

One can only imagine the aweful relationship events that led to such feelings of complete and total anguish. For those men that have suffered so much ... please accept my my heart felt sympathy.

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