What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (Full Version)

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FTopinMichigan -> What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 4:06:45 AM)

A thought came to me, from another thread that suggested someone may not be "real" (or a Dom/me) because they were never seen with a "play" partner, nor playing (having a scene) in a public/group venue.

I used to enjoy participating in many public BDSM venues for fun and meeting others, and yet have never been much for public scenes, or casual play. I enjoy private and intimate pleasures, for me and my partner(s). Because of this, I too have heard of others saying such things about me, like "well, she's says she's a Top...BUT, I've never seen her play," implying that's the measure or indicator to gauge by.

Now, I have had some tremendous HOT scenes in public play venues, and don't allow myself to be judged by others, but can't help but wonder how many here might view quantity and public scenes as a measure of "real," or of one's orientation, as a Dom/me or sub. (I have a submissive friend that won't scene in public and is accused of being fake, and a tease, when in fact their experience...well, it's their experience, not for others to enjoy. They are a private person, and they enjoy private pleasures, as I do. So both Dom and sub get judged by this.)

Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy? Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?

Yes, I do realize that "watching" someone do a physical scene can be a good gauge to their technique and safety, but is it also the measure to define more? What does it tell you? And if they don't scene in public...?

What you see is what you get? Is it necessary for you to see...to believe?



MHOO314 -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 4:15:52 AM)

Good gawd if that were the case, I'd be run out of town on a rail---I lovingly refer to this area I live in as the testosterone triangle, mostly Dom oriented--I simply cannot abide the involvement---even when I went to Atlanta, I observed but never did public play--sometimes I think being seen can hurt someone's chances too--its no different than proclaiming one's self gay---must we see them kissing to believe it?


Sorry but I see the public scene and people in it like I do any social circle---just because you aren't there doesn't mean you have no redeeming value--<smiles>



PlayfulOne -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 4:34:49 AM)

It sounds like these people have to much time on their hands. If playing in public is the gauge then I guess I am a fake also. I have never been interested in being "seen" or in public play if somoene thinks less of me for that then it is their problem not mine.

BTW I've never seen you go to the bathroom either, therefore you don't pee and must be an alien.

K



MysticalPhoenix -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 4:36:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan

Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy? Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?

Yes, I do realize that "watching" someone do a physical scene can be a good gauge to their technique and safety, but is it also the measure to define more? What does it tell you? And if they don't scene in public...?

What you see is what you get? Is it necessary for you to see...to believe?


Absolutely not. Requiring that someone scene and be seen in public to "prove" that they are the real McCoy, is junior high school mentality. As if scening in public is some initiation ritual that gets you into the "real Dom/ina club" or something.

Some people don't play in public-they may not be comfortable putting on a show for an audience. Some people can't play in public-they may be into activities that are not allowed in public play venues. Some people don't do "scenes" as part of their play-strange as it may seem to some (do me, do me, baby, do me all night long), not everyone is into that.

I have played in public over the years, but I don't feel that makes me any more real than anyone who doesn't. And I would avoid like the plague anyone who thinks that it does.

Phoenix



IrishMist -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 4:47:29 AM)

Nope, I don't have to see them to believe it. Many times, you can get a feel for someone by just listening to them talk, or paying attention to what they talk about, etc..you don't have to see them in action to know if they are real or not.

Though, also, on the other side of the coin...there are those who are very accomplished at covering up their real self...but I still would not rely only on public or casusal play scenes to determine if someone is real or not.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 5:46:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan
Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy

EVENTUALLY yes, they are gonna have to play with me, go out somewhere with me and SHOW everything about their character and personality is actually what they claim it is.

But I don't make that determination right off the bat, just like I don't need to fuck someone right off. EVENTUALLY we need to figure out if we're sexually capable and compatible with eachother.

quote:

Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?

If they make lots of claims and then don't follow through, it's definitely a manipulative player. However, someone who just does not get into the public arena has nothing to do with being a player or a wannabe.

quote:

What does it tell you? And if they don't scene in public...?

For me it CAN tell me the intensity level they can go to in a scene. For example, I know I'd really love to play with Phantom because of the intense erotic and blatantly public scenes he does.

However, it doesn't necessarily cancel anything OUT- I'd want to spend more time with them to see if there are things I can't see in the scene or if it really is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). I'd have to think long and hard about being with someone who never scened in public, but that's just personal preference.
quote:


What you see is what you get? Is it necessary for you to see...to believe?

EVENTUALLY yes, right off the bat, no.



sweetnessforsir -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 5:47:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan

Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy? Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?

Yes, I do realize that "watching" someone do a physical scene can be a good gauge to their technique and safety, but is it also the measure to define more? What does it tell you? And if they don't scene in public...?

What you see is what you get? Is it necessary for you to see...to believe?


Well, if we measure "reality" on public acts, then many of us are not real in many ways. It seems to be another way to classify people. I have met "real" Doms and "real" subs who would never ever ever play in public. I prefer not to play in public. It doesn't make any of us less real.

I like private because the intimacy is higher. And well, there is the subsequent sex that does not happen in a public dungeon.

It is interesting that those who choose an alternative lifestyle are always jumping up and measuring the authenticity of others with ridiculous standards. If it weren't public play, it would be not using canes, or not using floggers, or having too many floggers, or not wanting to (fill in the blank).

s



OscarHargraves -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 7:18:03 AM)

Yup. Me too. I have never played in public and I have no desire to do so. I like my scenes to be one-on-one, intimate and VERY private. I guess I'm one of the fakes too. (sighs).



YourCacophony -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 7:28:03 AM)

Absolutely not. Both my wife and I are directors and are in the public eye frequently, therefore we do NOT play in public, nor is it anyone else's business if we do. One can be dominant or submissive, and the world can know it, without the need to expose one's kinkier side for public viewing.

Looking at it from a vanilla standpoint, we have a president that never publicly displays any leadership skills, nonetheless he is still the president...[8D]



perfection20005 -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 7:34:34 AM)

I had never seen my Master play in public before I met him, and he doesn't do much with the public scening anyway. He is a very private man, and I am also private. I don't think someone has to public play in order to be who you are.



cravinspankin -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 8:03:36 AM)

No, whether they play in public such as a local dungeon or lifestyle party does NOT determine whether they are real or not.
However.... I almost never play privately with someone the first time.
If I do, it takes much longer to get to that point.
I prefer to play publicly the first time to get a feel for them, and for my friends to meet and get to know them, too, and for those friends to be able to observe Him and watch for any behaviors i may miss, beign blindfolded or in subspace, etc.
Also, i know they have my back, which makes me feel safer.
For those i play with privately the first time.... i spend much more time getting to know them first, talking at great length about a huge array of topics, to build trust and a comfort level.



JohnWarren -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 9:39:16 AM)

Before people talk about others being "real" or not. I think they should provide their definition of "real."

Seriously, is anyone really saying that people who post and write emails aren't real... that they are some sort of AI programme?



truesub4u -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 9:40:23 AM)

In my younger, earlier years, Master Rick use to have parties every other weekend. I got really use to public play. Afterwards though... it got real private for me. And really do prefer private play. Master is a private man for the most part. We joke around in public alot. Make statements jokingly.. but when it comes to actual play.. he's very private.

I for one, really don't care who thinks of me as a fake. Just because they haven't seen me play in public. Hell I haven't seen them play either. And as PlayfulOne stated... I've never seen you go to the bathroom either, therefore you don't pee and must be an alien. (LOL, loved that statement there)



Evanesce -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 9:56:36 AM)

quote:

Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy? Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?


I don't have to see them play in order to believe them, but I do tend to doubt their claims if in the course of more than a year or two I never see them interact with a partner in ANY form, whatsoever.



KnightofMists -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 9:57:29 AM)

The mentality that you speak of is just another one of those self-gorifing ideals. So many like to make themself feel better by establishing a standard that in truth is of little value. IE... Do Public play... or your Not Real!

I never came out into the public scene until about 5-6 years ago. Until then, anyone in the lifestyle thought I was just another vanilla walking the street. I started doing Bondage with my alandra back in 1990, the three years before that we did alot of roleplay and kinky sex if you will. By the time I came out into the community, there was some things I did and some things I had yet to do. But, I still felt like I was rather new at things and was treated as such. I was very shocked at the first public play that I was at. I was expecting so much more and frankly, I was disappointed. In many ways, I was expecting to learn alot more of things to do and found that the greatest majority did as much or less than i did. Well alot has changed in 5-6 years, I do more and still have more I want to do. On occassion, I play in public, but I do abit of private fun too *w*

Fact is there are lots of people out "Vanilla World" that do BDSM and don't ever come out in the public scene in anyway. Some you only learn by chance, I met a few people like that, you will never see them in the public scene. There is some that do BDSM activites and don't even call it as such. I know in my early days with alandra we didn't label it as BDSM, hell didn't even know a community existed. It was just our private sexuality, not kinky or anything but fun to do. Our relationship was labeled as Traditional. I ruled the house from the beginning. We knew we didn't fit the mold of the modern day relationships, but we didn't care, It was who we are!. It wasn't until we discovered the community and found all these labels and such, not that it changed anything in our life. The authority was with me long before she was called slave. So, I don't really care if some plays in public or not. I don't care what they label themselves. I look for character strengths in the subtly of their behaviors. The character of person says more to me than anything else! This in of itself is very subjective and what I view will not be the same as others. Just part of the dynamics of people!



Nuke718 -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/16/2006 12:12:38 PM)

There is a lot of gauging others based on ones own experirne in the lifestyle, and while you see it a lot online, it is more noticable and hurtful in the real world (no pun intended LoL).

The local community here has a lot of what I call slap-n-ticklers (SM sensation play types) who play at parties and events and proclaim themselves to be "real", and those who don't play at parties not to be. What is ironic is that many of the people I have met locally who do NOT play in public play a LOT more seriously (Ds, SM, or pick your flavour).

There are a ton of reasons not to play in public, from body image and confidence issues, to privacy/relationship/ issues, to the fact that the house rules don't include the type of play you enjoy. My favorite Post-munch party memory is a bunch of the so-called "real" players hyrrying out of the basement scared by the level ofplay between a Master/slave couple that were friends of mine. One girl who identified herself as a painslut wanted it stopped (as she was worried about the slaves safety). Why do I enjoy this memory? Fair question... Based on my experience with the couple, their play that night was barely more than their normal warmup.

So I guess those of os without a significant other or steady play partner, and dont make a habit of casual play at parties need to get used to sometimes being wondered about. For me, I know my own reality and the powere players can kiss my chunky buttocks.

Nuke }:-



Petruchio -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/17/2006 1:38:44 AM)

Sheesh! Another girl asking for my measurements. How demeaning!

My judgment is that people judge too much. What does it matter if someone wishes not to perform? In fact, might that be preferable in establishing a relationship?

Screw what anyone else thinks!



IronBear -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/17/2006 2:46:55 AM)

Ok lets look at this realistically and logically shall we?

In any walk of life both socially and work wise, how do we judge or assess people?

In work orientated areas just as in sport, we need to see what a person is doing, how they do it and how much do they commit before we can make an accurate assesment. certainly the personal temprement and other personal aspects are important but the final line is if some one can produce what I need on time and without being disruptive or counter productive, I'll probably employ them.

When it comes to social, lifestyle and similar areas, the personality and other personal attributes play a more important part in our judgements. You can have some one who is acknowledged as being excelent in (lets keep this to the lifestyle shall we?), various forms of BDSM play, they are safe and understandig of what is required, yet they may have a personality which grates on people who are there. It may be that they just don't click with the core clique or possibly deing shy don't mix well. Should they be excluded? In areas such as the lifestyle, it is very much what we say (post), how we say it (post it) ad the impression we give by which people judge us. Many people are quick to make judgements whilst opthers are strongly influenced by the opinions of their peer group/clique. It is not often that folks will sit back and want to meet you or take the time to get to know you. Frankly, they don't give a da,mn if you are having a hard day, or because you are desperately shy you come accross as standoffish. Withoiut you knowing you can be shunted out for o reason except you identify as Gorean or similar. Irrespective of what folks admitt to, many are offended by seeing an older Dominant with a young sub/slave (Legal age). few if ever will ask or even want to know. All they see through jaundiced eyes is the appearance of an old letch and a young innocent girl under his sway. In other words, if you are not part of the popular (Iand often the most powerful) clique, you can be behind the eight ball.

It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not. Those whoi have been around life for a few years know what I'm saying is true unless they have led sheltered lives. I only have to look at my notes of those who have contacted me as a counsellor for this very reason and the work I and others have had to do to help repare the damage to their self esteem destroyed by thoughless social cliques and especially those in the BDSM Lifestyle. Cricky, I was so close to pulling out of the local scene and shutting House Iron Bear recently and even considered pulling out of CM as well. I know the shit some people with their own agendas or those sheep being led by their genitals can do. I still would pull out if those mindless folk started to ostrisise my Wife and any who were known to be our friends... Luckely i can live without a social scene and without the BDSM Lifestyle, but Neets enjoys it.



brightspot -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/17/2006 2:55:58 AM)

quote:

Do you have to "see" someone in action in order to believe who they are, or what they say they enjoy? Is it a measure of being real versus a wannabe to you?


I just watched "What the "BLeep" Do We Know".
A movie about Quantum Physics, and right now this question has a whole different meaning to me[&:].

But as I "see" it, no I don't think I need proof from anyone, nor do I care.
What I care about is how I incorporate and move with-in WWITWD and the
ones I share it with. Or how we are treated as a "Whole Community".
How other individuals do it or enjoy it is totally up to them. I don't need to
"see" them to believe they are real, what is "real"? No one's "reality" is reality.
We each create our own. This movie get's you thinking.

I know it's a lot deeper, wilder world than how we "see" it to be[;)].

*Brightspot





orfunboi -> RE: What you "see" - Is that an accurate measurement? (2/17/2006 4:00:49 AM)

i think some people are in such dire need of a real life themselves, that they can't help but dig into others lives.

Some people don't like to play in public, it has nothing to do with how "real" they are, its just their preference.

The only time i would concern myself with something like this, is if i was interested in playing with the Domme, then i would want to see her play and interact with others. Other than that, i try to take people at their word and not worry about it much.

i, personally, have never seen you play with anyone, and have never doubted for a minute, that you are who you say you are. And i see no reason why you would have to prove it to anyone. Unless they are serving you, it is none of their business where you play or if.



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