RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/7/2009 10:53:57 AM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777
people care about things that really are important to their lives, things that will have an impact on their lives,... like, .....well.....like Michael Jackson.

Fuck me ... Michael Jackson in a UN / Israeli war crimes thread ! I can't see the relevance straight away ...

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 1:15:57 AM

ienigma777

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You misunderstand me.....Your thread, is valid, my correlation to the UN, Israel thing and MJ was a mock to the people who are so overcome with this absurd nonsense they care not about what really will impact and effect their lives.....read my entire post. Geezus...there is no fuck you anywhere, intended, implied or anything..

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 1:27:33 AM

ienigma777

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Well, every 'christian church' I ever attended all preach the chosen people stuff. So, from my personal experience, I disagree in part with you. Yes the Jews spout that very clearly, and believe it whole heartedly.

Now, as I see it, the US hedges it's bets, supporting both Arab and Israel, like I said, there is mutual support from all parties, if an enity upsets the wagon, the US can legitimately intervien, on anyones behalf, as protector, peacemaker. Only Bush couldn't wait, and invaded Iraq.

It most certainly is poltical, and religious both. This is what is so complex about the area. The, Esau, jacob, Abramham senario of the division of the lands all come into play.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 1:58:31 AM

JonnieBoy

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Thanks for the sermon, (whatever it's about) not sure what your point regarding the UN's dealings with Israel over war crimes is though ?? (Is there something in the bible I missed advocating them ?)

You presume to judge on what impacts on the lives of those you have no familiarity with it seems. No matter if I interpret your words to mean the UN/Israel thing OR Whacko, it still reads wonky geezer. This is a public discussion forum, not a life changing event or religious revelation. You will come across some stuff that may appear totally absurd or sound like nonsense ... to YOU as do we all now and then.

Preach away (we might even join in and take turns).

Are we having fun yet ?

Pirate

(ps : sticking to the topic ... a bit ... )

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 11:00:01 AM

ienigma777

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I'm having tons of fun.....but someone will put the kibash on that, I am sure.

Wonky Geezzer, is a good start...I'm guessing all these threads are not the least bit serious in content...just a bunch of non sense words strung about.

Why did you even start such a thread?

Ah well, who cares, bye bye, have a nice day.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 12:55:51 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Now, as I see it, the US hedges it's bets, supporting both Arab and Israel, like I said, there is mutual support from all parties, if an enity upsets the wagon, the US can legitimately intervien, on anyones behalf, as protector, peacemaker. Only Bush couldn't wait, and invaded Iraq.

It most certainly is poltical, and religious both. This is what is so complex about the area. The, Esau, jacob, Abramham senario of the division of the lands all come into play.

Our very first foreign conflict was with Muslim pirates, think 18th Century Islamic terrorists. Before we did something about it, the Europeans just paid them a ransom to get their sailors back and be allowed passage near the North African cost. I guess we (a new nation, that European aristocrats considered backwoods hicks) angered them forever by showing them up and kicking the Barbary pirates asses twice. Everyone has an interest in that part of the world. It's the center of world trade. It always has been going back to the Silk Road.

We support the Israelis for a lot reasons. We have the 2nd largest population of Jews after Israel in the world. Israel was a great ally during the Cold War and had and has some of the best intelligence gathering than any other nation. We need a loyal, firm ally in that part of the world. The Arabs aren't our friends, they are simply horse traders that tolerate us.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/8/2009 1:01:10 PM >

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 3:09:52 PM

Politesub53

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Slaveboy, America was paying tribute of $1 million a year up to 1801, then decided not to pay, as the Pirates wanted too much money. To suggest America didnt pay and Europeans did is nonsense.

Does the fact you consider Israel to be allies absolve them from human rights issues ?

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 7:12:33 PM

Blaakmaan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.

I am not asking for a debate over IF ... that's WELL proven, nor am I asking for a debate regarding ANY OTHER NATION OR FORCES record in this area. Quite simply ... Israel.

Pirate

(this is NOT a politics, nor religion related topic)

Wow!

You actually posted something that I more agree than disagree with!

It's a miracle!

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 8:07:53 PM

subrob1967

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I'd like a definition of a "war crime", because as far as I'm concerned if one is in a war, one does whatever it takes to survive and destroy his enemy.

IMO Israel has shown great restraint in defending itself. Fuck the UN and groups like Amnesty International.

I understand that, but if one should presume upon the treaties one should uphold them. No one has yet asked me what my call would be if I ever advocated war, but that seems to me because I think they know the answer.

Your opinion is something that you are FREE to hold, as I am I mine, we are both fortunate in that respect.

Thanks too for getting this topic back on track.

Pirate

If Israel is being rocketed from Gaza or the West Bank, obviously someone wasn't living up to the treaty, and Israel did what it had to do to protect it's citizens. If Palestine is unable to police itself, to the detriment of Israel, Israel has the right to defend itself from further attacks, even if that means occupying Gaza and or the West Bank.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 11:48:05 PM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan

quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.

I am not asking for a debate over IF ... that's WELL proven, nor am I asking for a debate regarding ANY OTHER NATION OR FORCES record in this area. Quite simply ... Israel.

Pirate

(this is NOT a politics, nor religion related topic)

Wow!

You actually posted something that I more agree than disagree with!

It's a miracle!

It was bound to happen at some point

(infinite number of monkeys,typewriters, enough time etc)

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/8/2009 11:49:33 PM

JonnieBoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Does the fact you consider Israel to be allies absolve them from human rights issues ?

Now that's a very good question !

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 2:51:42 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Does the fact you consider Israel to be allies absolve them from human rights issues ?

Now that's a very good question !

Pirate

I hate asking good questions, they fail to get an answer

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 7:17:04 AM

JonnieBoy

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I suspect you may be similarly deprived once more.

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 7:29:42 AM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Slaveboy, America was paying tribute of $1 million a year up to 1801, then decided not to pay, as the Pirates wanted too much money. To suggest America didnt pay and Europeans did is nonsense.

Politesub, America didn't really have a navy until 1801. Europe had huge navies and did nothing about it. When we finally managed to scrap a navy togther, we did. We also sailed a lot further away from home than Europeans had to, to do it. Tell you something?

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 10:55:45 AM

ienigma777

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Absolutely, I agree solidly.

Just as a side note: Over the years I've dealth with a diverse clientel, and in so doing, their varied backgrounds emerge through doing business, and one learns...draws a genalization of the various cultures (for protection) ...... okay, not to offend anyone, but, I've encountered Arabs in business...generally....the Arab considers the caucasian, a heathen, an illerate, untrustworthy barbarian who honest dealiings with cannot be considered, nor given any credibility or respect or honor. So, they (the Arab) can say, will say, agree to anything, but those agreements are not worth anything as they are talking, primarily, to a heathen to start with.

Arabs do NOT think they are the center of the universe...They KNOW they are.

Dubai is the most current example of the center of the Universe, all the world's trade will transit through Dubai.

Arabs consider the African, the Negro race to be nothing more than animals.....apes that can understand basic language and perform manual tasks....the black race can be used and disposed of without even a second thought.

This is from my personal experience, from those I have done business with. So, if the moderator does not like what I say, then simply knock me off.....but what I say, is true and factual; something which people do not wish to accept....believing ...we are all brothers under the skin.

The old ways die hard...or not at all.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 12:40:23 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Politesub, America didn't really have a navy until 1801. Europe had huge navies and did nothing about it. When we finally managed to scrap a navy togther, we did. We also sailed a lot further away from home than Europeans had to, to do it. Tell you something?

Youre right about not really having a navy until 1801, why did you expect protection from Britain though, that ended with independence. If you read the history, Britain used a mixture of force, bribery and trade.

As for sailing a lot further than Europeans, wasnt it they who discovered America ? You have also failed to reply to my question on human rights.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 1:04:10 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Youre right about not really having a navy until 1801, why did you expect protection from Britain though, that ended with independence. If you read the history, Britain used a mixture of force, bribery and trade.

Um, I never said the British should have protected us. I pointed out that the British, and many European navies had the tools necessary to not have had to pay bribes to the Barbary Pirates, but they did anyway. I see it as a good example of our differences over the Israel issue. I notice this strong dislike of Israeli policy in Europe, that we don't share with you. But like I said, we have a different history with dealing with the people in that part of the world. Also again, we have the 2nd largest population of Jews after Israel in the world. Of course we are going to support them and befriend them. They have been an invaluable ally to us, and I think they have been more than decent in their dealings with their Arab neighbors. Furthermore, I think they have been VERY patient with their Persian detractors. Without our diplomacy, I'm sure Israel would have already bombed Irans nuclear facilities. But Biden already gave them a nod of the head the other day, so we'll see. Israel may very well take care of that pesky problem very soon. I will applaud them if they do.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 4:48:30 PM

Politesub53

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You still havent answered the question on human rights though.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/9/2009 4:50:16 PM

Aneirin

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You have your experience of Arabs, you have drawn your own conclusions, you have your view, from your perspective, but know it, others also have their experiences and have drawn their own conclusions, myself being one of them, and I would have to disagree with your generalisation of the Arab world, from my perspective, it is not as you say. But to note, when I met arabs in their own lands, I represented me, not the policies, fallacies and ideas of my homeland. That known the Arabs I have met I have a very different view to you. Furthermore, Arab, being an abbreviation for Arabian are people from the Arabian peninsular and surrounding territories who speak the same language and display similar customs, it is not a description for all who live in the middle east, or near middle east who are not christian. What most of those regions identify with across the countries, is their faith, they are Moslem, before any nationality, that would also go for those from Africa, members of the negro race who follow Allah, they are all brothers under the same god.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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