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RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/6/2009 5:58:41 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GuardianOfWeak

I tend to be a very analytical thinker and apply that in many ways. One thing I've noticed amongst subs is four general categories that seem to define the root of their interests:

1) Feeling Dirty
2) Humiliation
3) Servitude
4) Helplessness

What do other people think?



Oh, what I think?  I think I'd like to know, just how many subs have you observed and analyzed at the ripe old age of 21 to come to these comprehensive conclusions?  And what sort of psychiatric or psychological training do you have that makes your analyses of those subs seriously meaningful?  And if subs are such a pathetic lot, why would you want one anyway?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I've done some looking into this myself.  I have identified several reasons why some women identify as submissive.  In no particular order:

1. They enjoy pleasing another
2. They carry too much responsibility during the day and want to give it up at home
3. They enjoy the feeling of trust that they get when they hand over power
4. They like the attention they get when they bottom
5. They simply get hot on the physical sensations of being spanked, nipples clamped, etc.

I make no claims that the above list is comprehensive.  Or non-controversial.



I much prefer DarkSteven's list of motivations to GuardianOfWeak's.  Or even better yet, sirsholly's list of attributes.  Guardian, please do not fool yourself into thinking that all s-types are weak.  We're not.  A lot of us are strong, independent, self-sufficient women who choose to submit to another.  And not just any other, but specifically a chosen ONE.  Generalizations are born out of stupidity. 

_____________________________

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/6/2009 6:00:13 PM   
Drakontos


Posts: 167
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Generalizations are born out of stupidity.

No, generalizations are born out of ignorance; which is different from stupidity.

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Drakontos
zaphira

Live with honor; serve with grace and beauty

(in reply to sweetsub1957)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 12:44:36 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, overgeneralizations are born out of ignorance, while incorrect generalizations can be born out of anything.

Reasonably accurate generalizations and useful generalizations are born out of empirics, insight or luck.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Drakontos)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 8:31:43 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline 		I don't think many of you read very well or you, like me on many ocasions, are just reacting.

1) Strength
2) Character
3) Belief in herself
4) Capable
5) Courageous
These are descriptive characteristics of any human being.
"it would take a high level of stupidity to accept a dom with a list such as yours."

This is not a list of characteristics, and I do much agree with CaringandReal.

"maybe quite a few of us do not find these categories to be the root of what we feel?"
The OP is not speaking of feelings as many of you all have responded.

"You're perpetuating the myth that D/s BDSM is based on psychological damage."
No, the OP  is not.  This is HIS analysis of  "four general categories that seem to define the root of their interests."
Where is psychological damage in any category he lists and yes, I do agree masochism should be included in this list.

"Yeah, that's not why I submit. I love generalizations and stereotypes."
Dah, This is NOT a list of reasons to submit.
Step back and re-read the OP.

DarkSteven has his own list --  "have identified several reasons why some women identify as submissive."

Do tell me OsideGirl, does this list fit any of your reasons to submit?
You see that is not what the OP is writing about.
So many miss the point.

Let's take DarkSteven's list of reasons why someone submits and see what category they might fit under -----
1. They enjoy pleasing another (servitude)
2. They carry too much responsibility during the day and want to give it up at home (helplessness)
3. They enjoy the feeling of trust that they get when they hand over power (servitude)
4. They like the attention they get when they bottom (feeling dirty)
5. They simply get hot on the physical sensations of being spanked, nipples clamped, etc. (definately feeling dirty, humiliation)

Lally gives the OP credit for his thinking..... and yes, we do not know if this is the surface thoughts nor the deeper thoughts behind this list...She also goes on the warn the OP
"never forget that you are talking about people, often complicated people and their requirement for fulfillment is just as meaningful to them as it is to you."
Good advice.
But the OP's list is NOT a list of titles that fit a submissive.

Applauding ranja!!

"Op, I believe these may be qualities you are looking for in a sub and not to say you will not find it."
This is definately NOT what the OP wrote.  Your interpretation is very reactionary and full of  assumption.

Ah yes, Mercnbeth have some interesting additions to the OP's list of "general categories that seem to define the root of their interests."
5) Loneliness
6) Boredom
7) Hearty Sexual Appetite
8) Spiritual Calling

I challenge everyone to browse profiles and take the OP's list, add Mercmbeth's list and analyze the general category that seems to define the root of their interests, as stated in each profile.

Sometimes there are young men and women who are capable of incredibly intelligent thoughts and decisions.
Don't discount the seedling , but nuture it with water and sunshine.

I know 2 incredibly intelligent young people (both between 19 and 21) that have made life changing decisons way beyond their age in years.
They were given the chance to voice a small thought as the OP and it was given water and sunshine.
Damn!! The beauty that can grow forth.

Disclaimer:  I have NO idea who the OP is. Maybe he is like one of these 2 young people I know of or maybe he is a bit off, who cares...  constructive criticism is in order.

(in reply to GuardianOfWeak)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 9:08:15 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsFlutter

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

edited to add: ive just noticed youre handle - GuardianoftheWeak.  you might be in for a bit of a shock - never ever assume that s types are weak, very very dodgy premise.  an s type is youre equal in many ways, she just chooses to allow the power exchange to alter when she's ready to trust.

wishing you well and above all, fun. x


lally - THANK YOU !! I was thinking the exact same thing but felt it would be more meaningful coming from 'an s type'. Whew - your timing is perfect. I was starting to feel the strain LOL





lol..  -

(in reply to MsFlutter)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 9:09:17 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think many of you read very well or you, like me on many ocasions, are just reacting.

1) Strength
2) Character
3) Belief in herself
4) Capable
5) Courageous
These are descriptive characteristics of any human being.
First, i can read very well, thanks. I learned how when i was quite young.

Now...what i listed most certainly are NOT descriptive characteristics of any human being. It would be nice if they were,  but sadly, they are not.

There are many who do not have strength of character, belief in themselves, who do not feel themselves to be courageous, and as a result, are not capable. It seems to me that what the op is seeking is a submissive who does not have the qualities i have listed, as evidenced by his idea that a submissive is helpless.

It takes a great deal of strength, courage and belief in ones self to select and submit to another. Helplessness has no place in my world.



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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 9:34:31 AM   
Rhembein


Posts: 136
Joined: 6/8/2009
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		<sticks hand in popcorn bucket> Nom Nom Nom

OP - Never underestimate a submissive. It takes an insane amount of strength to kneel, and you would never know that unless you tried. A real Dom recognizes this fact and appreciates her. A fake Dom ends up being never completely satisfied because he misinterprets her submissiveness as weakness, and she breaks him. She is strong, and if you don't recognize that... she will break your ass and YOU will be the one on your knees.


< Message edited by Rhembein -- 7/7/2009 9:39:15 AM >

_____________________________

This one is bound to love, serve, and obey.

Holding on and letting go, she just keeps giving in. No matter what He needs, her answer is always yes. He only has to dream and she does the rest.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 12:08:59 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhembein

Nom Nom Nom

10 points for cute (yet not overdone) lolcatspeak.


_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to Rhembein)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/7/2009 12:09:43 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cowgirlrider

I know subs are an intelligent group, Yes they allow themselves to dominated, used for pleasure, domisitic work and as partners, Because of the inner most feeling to serve, to be told of the good they do, to be loved, and kissed at times, But mistreat them and puff they are gone, then you are a Dom over nothing, Give them truth and respect, and they will please you for life
Really?  For life?  Then why have I had 3 long-term submissives instead of just one?
Sorry...it is just not that simplistic.  I gave my first submissive love and respect and truth...the love and respect and truth helped her to find her "inner" femdominant and while I remain the only dominant she responds to in any sort of submissive manner, she is not pleasing me for life.  Of course, I suppose her husband probably has a say in that also.
I gave my second submissive love and respect and truth AND the benefit of my knowledge and expertise as a health care provider and she is no longer with me.  Of course, that may be because part of my love and truth and respect demanded that same thing from her in that I wanted her to go home, face up to her kids and her husband and either end it with him and get them to understand that she and hubby were done OR go home and do what she could to reconcile with him but love and respect and truth from her to me dictated that she get off the damn fence.  (I took her on during one of my momentary lapses into "white knight" syndrome).
I gave my second submissive love and respect and truth and she pleased me for as long as it suited her.  You see, she did not see a need to be truthful or respectful with me about the fact that she maintained contact with her former dominant the entire time we were together and that the possibility existed that she might reconcile with him.  But she swore she was truthful and respectful with me and that she loved me.
Love and respect and truth don't get you anything from someone else unless they are of the same mindset as you are.  Compatibility and communication matter more.

Sorry for the hijack O.P. but now to address your statement that submissives generally have one (or more?  you didn't make that clear) of the following at the heart of their interests:  1.  Feeling dirty  2.  Humiliation  3.  Servitude  4.  Helplessness
Actually 1 and 2 are often the same...if there is a difference, it is slight enough to still relate the two.  # 3...Servitude... is an important aspect of most submissives' make-up but it certainly depends on how each submissive views servitude and to whom. 
4.  Helplessness.  While there are some submissives who are overwhelmed by everyday life and so seek someone to help put order to chaos and protect them from that which they cannot protect themselves from, I have to state that I haven't met too many that I would consider completely helpless (personally, I wouldn't want someone who was completely helpless because my own inner self would constantly be asking "is it me and who I am inside or is it just me and what (dominant) I am...in other words, could it be ANY dominant willing to step up?").  But your list is way, way incomplete.  What about the submissive whose drive to submit comes from fear of the unknown?  What about the submissive whose drive to submit comes from an inner need for someone to bring out the sexuality that they always felt but were taught was dirty and so they didn't express it at all but God, they know they want someone to bring it out and find that difficult combination of making them feel dirty but making them proud of their "slutty" ways and whose other deep need is the desire to please someone who appreciates it?  What about the submissive whose desire to submit comes from her own strength and the "want" to find someone who appreciates that strength but whose own strength is such that it compels a yielding of her own strength to complement his dominance?  These are just a couple of examples that don't quite fit your simplistic and short list. 
Human beings are complex.  As a doctor, I like to break things down too...but I have yet to treat a patient who had just one thing going on with them.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/7/2009 12:12:32 PM >

(in reply to cowgirlrider)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/8/2009 3:47:57 PM   
abuddingdom


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline 		I read the op & had to check the date of the post to see if it was April 1st.

Ok- my pretty one can almost- repeat, almost - be defined by servitude. But she chooses to serve. Me, & anyone who I tell her to or give her permission to serve. She's agreed to this&its the life she CHOOSES.  & she's less helpless than most anyone I know. I can&do humiliate her within the limits we've agreed to, but as long as she's committed to me noone else can or will. & she wont ever feel dirty as long as she's with me - I actually find that one offensive asa generalization.

I'm kinda new to the boards, & I do a lot more perusing than posting, but sometimes I wonder if a post like this is even real. It feels like someone stoking&lighting a fire & sitting back to watch the action, just to do it.....

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/8/2009 5:42:34 PM   
frazzle


Posts: 1212
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline 		Cant agree with any of these.

Think he'd kill me if i did.

He doesnt want to make me feel helpless, dirty or humiliated. He wants a strong person who by choice does as he says and wants without question.

Not even sure about servitude, i know what he likes so do it. if your talking housework type stuff, he'll tell me off for taking his dirty plate away to the kitchen, he's quite capable of doing that himself. I'm his slave not his mother/housekeeper.

(in reply to GuardianOfWeak)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/8/2009 7:58:21 PM   
GuardianOfWeak


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		Well, first I'd like to thank you all for participating in my psych experiment.

Just kidding.

I was actually a bit startled to see some of the responses that I received. Many of them appeared to be personal attacks rather than a friendly, "I disagree, here are my thoughts though..." But in either case, thanks for all the replies.

I also found it hysterical that I wrote all of 7 lines and many people seemed to extract a 200 page book.

I also enjoyed those that accredited me with being an expert on the subject.

This was by no means a full analysis, but more of the initial hypothesis. I base my observations off of the 6 years I have spent bumming around the internet in chatrooms, websites, and the like where I absorbed as much as I could about D/s. It may be that my observations only apply to a crowd that is younger, with whom most of my interactions have taken place.

However, it seems that at least one of the four items I listed is at least an initial draw to D/s. This may also be very dependent upon personal interpretations of each. For instance, I remember coming across someone that said fear, which I would categorize under helplessness.

Hopefully this post will help bring some clarity to the thread.

As a side note to those that decided to reply to my username and not the topic:
I do not believe I ever said it is my belief that all subs are weak. However, it is generally true that men are physically stronger than women, and there are also those that do look for a protector.

(in reply to frazzle)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/9/2009 5:16:52 AM   
CNJDom


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline 		(I haven't yet read all of the other posts yet and just "quick responded" to the initial  thread, but I will....)

GuardianOfWeak:  By now, I'm sure you have had just about every counter-thought to the generalizations of the four-general categories.  I want to add to all of this that I find submissives most appealing when they have something to offer and can bring something to the table with them.  I am attracted to and respect submissives that have strength and power to offer.  How can you give something, if you have nothing to offer?  A power exchange usually implies this concept.  Of your categories, it's true that there are some elements that come with subs where some of what you listed they may like or indulge in.  They don't all live for that category and they are usually more faceted and have more dimension than what generalizations can offer.  

Some subs are into a varied amount of things and it's best to not categorize so quickly and appreciate what the individual has within them.  Some want the helplessness, crave the servitude, look forward to feeling dirty, and some like some humiliation in their lives.  You may find all of these in one sub.  You may find NONE of these in one sub.  The beauty is in their individuality and their inner strengths.  Doormats are not appreciated, brats are a matter of taste, and there are sluts for everything imaginable (male and female) fetish or desire.  All of these things and more are there to embrace and rejoice in!  I respect submissives and slaves...cherish them really.  They put up with a lot, and their desire to serve, devoting  themselves to others; putting their trusts, hopes and themselves into the hands of hopefully worthy individuals capable of handling responsibility over that submissive or slave...is monumentous in nature and says a lot about that individual.  I hope that they respect me in return for who I am as a Dominant,  as well as respect me enough to call me Master, then I feel that bring the best I can to them as well.  That's a personal view of categorization. 

I respect your initial query, but in analysis of the submissive...well that is a pretty big can of whoop-ass if you don't go beyond the generalization and into more detail of specifics.  It's like saying water is wet.  There's more to it.  I'm sure you have more to say and look forward to it later.  Good luck, and welcome to the forums.  Just remember it's loaded with savage and intelligent animals that will praise as well as take your arm off (as an appetizer) if you dare not express clearly and with intelligence yourself.  Take care... 


< Message edited by CNJDom -- 7/9/2009 5:18:56 AM >

(in reply to GuardianOfWeak)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/9/2009 5:41:52 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
VAA/S FAN

GIVES GOOD HEART (Lushy)

CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


(in reply to CNJDom)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/9/2009 6:24:55 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		So if we would make a bit of a list for Doms then...sort of like this:

four points to define the root of a Dom's interest:

1) the inclination to lead
2) the expectation to be obeyed
3) the wish to be served
4) the thirst for power

Are we now gonna get numerous Doms writing how they like to follow and be disobeyed and like to scrub the floor themselves thank you very much...as for power...brush 'm over with a feather?

(in reply to GuardianOfWeak)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Analyzing D/s - 7/9/2009 6:25:35 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		OP, I held off on answering this though I have thought of doing so several times.  I am a slave, and of the four points you mention only one applies to me - I enjoy serving my One.  I agree with the others that numbers 1 and 2 are very closely related.  The only thing that I have to do with feeling helpless is that I enjoy it when I am pinned and feel helpless to get away from my One, but as far as me being helpless in any other sense is the furthest thing from the truth.

I have never had anything test me in more ways than my slavery.  I have shown more strength physically, emotionally, and mentally than I knew I had in me.  I have come to know other subs and slaves, and have seen their incredible determination even in the face of doing tasks which may frighten or disgust them and the incredible fortitude that they have.  In most cases it takes much more courage and fortitude to follow a command willingly and cheerfully, even when it may be against your core nature, than to give that command.

Your limited perspective may be partially due to the age range of the people you have associated with or the fact that they have been mostly online.  If someone is into humiliation it is very easy to get it through a chat.  People play at terms like, "I'm a dirty little girl".  Women, for millennium, have pretended to be weaker than they are to get a man to "come to their rescue".  Read the profiles of other Doms.  Do you see a single one asking for a totally helpless woman?  The vast majority want a woman who is strong and secure yet can build a deep enough relationship with him that she will lean on him even though she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself.

There is nothing wrong with making generalizations as long as you are willing to amend them when you find out you are wrong.  Majority consensus here is that you oversimplified and in doing so showed that you don't know as much as you think you do about subs.  This gives you a chance, now, to go out and learn more.


_____________________________



(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 56
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