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RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 5:00:12 AM

RCdc

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I completely agree that there is a difference between UK and USA markets A. I was giving a different example of experience though, seeing as enigma stated that the 'real art world' was one particular way, by his experience.
Saying that, there are definately clients that have my work in the US, but thats different approach.

the.dark.

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Post #: 81

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 5:17:42 AM

Aneirin

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Maybe the solution is to step back from the comercialdom of art and do something else, many established artists I know do not derive total income from their art, they do other things as well. I think once you become cynical about what art is, it is time to back off before the cynicism destroys it for you.

The plus part about stepping back, is if you are artist inclined, other possibilities arise from the most mundane of activities, you get fresh ideas, ideas from something not even art related, (In occupation).

The other thing is, arrogance, I find an arrogant artist, a person who says they are good at art, and their art is good, immediately gets my back up, for I decide whether art is good or not from my perspective, arrogance does no one any good by me. Fortunately, the established artists I know, never say their art is good, they just say it fulfilled their ideas and they learned from it. If I like it, I like it, but if I don't, then I would not say it, I would just accept it does nothing for me, but I can recognise the skill involved.

You know me, constantly I am being told my crafts are good, but I will not accept it, as I see acceptance that I am good is on the slippy path to arrogance and blindness.Yeah, I can do stuff, but to my mind, it is nothing exemplary, others could do better, but what I made was the expression of the time, once it is done, I with new knowledge, move to the next expression when it burns a hole in my thoughts.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 82

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 5:45:08 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Maybe the solution is to step back from the comercialdom of art and do something else, many established artists I know do not derive total income from their art, they do other things as well. I think once you become cynical about what art is, it is time to back off before the cynicism destroys it for you.

The plus part about stepping back, is if you are artist inclined, other possibilities arise from the most mundane of activities, you get fresh ideas, ideas from something not even art related, (In occupation).

The other thing is, arrogance, I find an arrogant artist, a person who says they are good at art, and their art is good, immediately gets my back up, for I decide whether art is good or not from my perspective, arrogance does no one any good by me. Fortunately, the established artists I know, never say their art is good, they just say it fulfilled their ideas and they learned from it. If I like it, I like it, but if I don't, then I would not say it, I would just accept it does nothing for me, but I can recognise the skill involved.

You know me, constantly I am being told my crafts are good, but I will not accept it, as I see acceptance that I am good is on the slippy path to arrogance and blindness.Yeah, I can do stuff, but to my mind, it is nothing exemplary, others could do better, but what I made was the expression of the time, once it is done, I with new knowledge, move to the next expression when it burns a hole in my thoughts.

Yeah well, you are good and as long as you do not accept it, then you won't get very far. Accepting ones gift is not the same as arrogance A.
Did you enjoy the programme? Personally, I found it pretty calming. And check ya phone.

the.dark.

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Post #: 83

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 5:52:53 AM

Aneirin

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The programme was good, although what I saw of it, for I had the channel on, but had'nt noticed it had started. So what, a woman in the buff, I was interested to listen to the artist and his ramblings, not gawp at the model. His end result, his disatisfaction at his drawing I found interesting, and to be honest I am not even sure what he was seeking to do, as that looks like one of my attempts from memory.

Hmmm, check my phone, thought I had'nt heard from it for a while, it's flat, battery has run down, just shows how much attention I pay to that thing.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Post #: 84

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 5:57:31 AM

RCdc

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I liked his ramblings too.
I like the countdown pips too. It's a good audio reminder that the programmes comining to an end. A gentle reminder kind of.
If ya phones down, check ya mail then. Geeze ya hard to pin down.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 85

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 6:41:15 AM

ienigma777

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Thanks for the proof reading....WOMAN you know that is what I meant. Just like my sec; always pushing my spelling bee button.

Good to see you are reading.
Luv ya, babe

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Post #: 86

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 7:30:37 AM

Marc2b

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This thread is starting to sound like the artist roundtable group that meets at the art center once a month. It is surprising how heated a debate over paint brushes can become. I once thought that things would come to blows whebn some of the painters insisted that photographers were not real artists. Fear not - things always calm down when we bring out the wine and chocolate.

One of the most heated topics is always the question: are you a real artist if you create with the intention of selling? Most artists I know have a day job and create their art for the sheer joy of it. If it sells, that's a nice bonus - but it is the joy of creating that drives them, not money. If you create only with the intention of selling you run the risk of becoming the next Thomas Kinkade - talented but mundane.

Concerning art shows on TV, anybody remember Bob Ross?

"And now we'll put a happy tree next to our happy lake."

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Post #: 87

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 7:39:00 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

Concerning art shows on TV, anybody remember Bob Ross?

"And now we'll put a happy tree next to our happy lake."

i miss him!!

Now where is the chocolate?

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Post #: 88

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 7:43:55 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
Concerning art shows on TV, anybody remember Bob Ross?

"And now we'll put a happy tree next to our happy lake."

Aw... he rocks.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 89

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 7:56:58 AM

Aneirin

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If you think this thread is bad, you want to check out the debate that is constantly raging in the arts and crafts community as to where craft should be defined, is it an art or something other. Many eminent writers have put in their input, for and against, as if it is the only thing they have in their sad little lives as to what is the definition of art and craft. To me, who cares, I see what I see and if something is art to me, then it is art, I don't need a critic on a soap box to tell me how to see.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 90

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 8:12:31 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

If you think this thread is bad, you want to check out the debate that is constantly raging in the arts and crafts community as to where craft should be defined, is it an art or something other. Many eminent writers have put in their input, for and against, as if it is the only thing they have in their sad little lives as to what is the definition of art and craft. To me, who cares, I see what I see and if something is art to me, then it is art, I don't need a critic on a soap box to tell me how to see.

Oh, I've seen that debate get heated as well. I think that's what the discussion group enjoys about their debates - everything is too subjective to really be right or wrong so they really just want to have fun arguing - and then make up over wine and chocolate.

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Post #: 91

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 9:15:35 AM

DemonKia

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FR, after skim thru

Okay, firstly, some of this discussion reminded me of this quote:

If you suck on a tit the movie gets an R rating. If you hack the tit off with an axe it will be PG. - Jack Nicholson

The other thinking about the shape of this thread comes from being the daughter of an art historian / artist. I was 'raised in museums' (& opera houses & at the ballet & so on & so on . . . . ) Even when I was very young I found it absolutely amusing that all those lovely paintings & sculptures of naked people were worth so much money, but that nudity is so widely vilified . . . . . It's such a weird disconnect that I still don't get . . . . .

When it came my turn to raise offspring, I opted out of having a teevee in the house, as I wanted dedicated reader-offspring . .. . . But I never minded them seeing naked people as subjects of 'fine art' -- I was far more bothered by the routine exposure to mega-violence that saturates so much of popular culture . . . . .

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Post #: 92

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 9:54:21 AM

ienigma777

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Yes it does...the arguements as to being a real artist if you get paid...hell yes...better paid than not....better having a full stomach than not.

The thing that galled some of the clients I've had was...I damn sure enjoyed what I was doing, damn sure enjoyed creating...and I got paid as well...sometimes I had to fight for my money, but I got paid.

You see, when a client attempts to make my work (creating art) a labour, no fun, as work is not to be enjoyed...Mormons are great for this.....then, project finished, client finished and bye bye.

Marc, the reason most artists have a day job, is because they cannot sell their art, they need to survive like anyone else...but to create with the intention of selling...hell man, that has been the intention of every artist. You think the great masters did it for the joy of painting, the Paris exposition of the past was done for a fling....no, every one of them wanted, strove for a commission, a portrait from some wealthy patron, a BUYER.

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Post #: 93

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 9:55:45 AM

ienigma777

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nudity is vilified because of the phoney puritan social ethics forced upon a society.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 94

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 10:04:11 AM

HatesParisHilton

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Here in Oz the violence is censored and boobage and muffs can be seen on free to air TV as early as 9:30 and we have mobile WAP content adda with pasties, things and nothing else on our version of ABCand NBC etc.

as for the cpommercial arguement, it's a cull of development. The actual money does not matter as opposed to the diciplin (har har) that competing in a real environment demands and engenders, even for $20 per illustration.

When Gen Y dingbats dn't even have an establishing shot in any of their pages and only one BG shot per 10 pages and call themselves comics artists when they can't ink and the triceps look like melting deltoids and their "perspective" looks like a Carnival Funhouse mirror, they are not comic book artists, they are hobbyists whom have merely uploaded on their free page given by their ISP's.

When they risk getting booted in the but out the door by an editor, or risk the wrath of comics critics (all of wwhom slaughter image-loving fanboys whom think people like Liefeld and his clones that came after him could draw) then they can call themselves comics artists.

and guess what? all these punks that get the boot? know what they hear before a publisher finished snickering?

"Didn't bother to do any life-drawing yet, huh kid?"

over and over and over again.

Listen to someone saying life-drawing is unnecessary to learn how to NOT get published. Or merely vanity press published.

It's about tempering the steel of your talent, not some venal money stuff. and sorry, if the only person you compete against is yourself, you are not the same calibre, ever, as someone who goes toe-to-toe with a group of fellow painters, sculptors, animators all ready to slit your throat whilesmiling at you.

You can jump 100 times a day in your backyard with a chopstick in your hand but it does not make you an Olympic Pole Vaulter.

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RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 10:22:21 AM

ienigma777

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Okay, this is a mainstream TV show, in a particular market. Thus being open to any casual passerby, on the stroll through TV land, children too.

For the common sake of decency, my personal opinion is, we do not need an instuctional art show with nudity on a mainstream market TV network . My own personal opinion. I would not want my little daughter seeing some guy nude, not that I have anything against the kiddies seeing a nude body...that will happen soon, has already happened, common sense tells you that enough....hell, they've already seen nude bodies in mainstream movies. One cannot rent any CDs without some portion having some sexual content, if you don't want your child viewing the sex scenes, don't let them watch....instead rent movies like ...Starship Troopers.....

The kiddies all over, are already playing doctor, exploring one another's bodies....it's universal, it's human nature.

If this show was serious, it should be on a cable network; mainstream, I simply do not agree with the concept. My humble opinion, if you want to watch it with your kiddies, that is your decision.

Art is a business....simply, it has always been a business....nothing happens unless someone sells something, and selling is business.

There is no business like show business....you've heard the song....everything about it is appealing, etc......especially when you get paid.

Now, am I saying that show business is not an art form, NO. The dance, the ballet, the shape of the bodies, the spin, the acting, to engender a response and feeling in the viewer. If there were no patrons...the building would not be rented, no stage, no scenery, no stagehands to do the tech stuff...and finally no performers.....because, no one is getting paid, no money is exchanging hands, no stomachs are being fed, no housing is being supplied.

The show is advertised, promoted, so patrons, customers will buy a ticket...that simple.

So, how can you, or anyone say, "they don't get this art is a business stuff."

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 96

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 10:28:05 AM

ienigma777

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Yes, Bob Ross, he came on the heels of william Alexander....who, like Ross sold their wares along with the TV show instructions...I ememsly enjoyed them both.......and bought some of their stuff. Constantly searching for ways to improve one's craft, ya know.

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 97

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 10:40:51 AM

ienigma777

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Hello Aneirin, A great deal of artists are arrogant indeed...hence is why I do not associate with any artists, can't stand their bullshit soul suffering compliants and company.

It's like this..."how can any artist think or say they are the greatest...when they all know, I am the greatest."

well, as for judging what one creates, as art or not art...that is reserved only to prospect buyers. If a person is willing to lay down some green for your creation....nuff said, the compliment is made. They like what you do, and did, and want to possess a part of you, through your creations, and are willing to pay for that...it's a privilege you extend as a creator, a tribute they extend as a patron of your work.

The most disasterous thing is ...to throw a party...and no one comes.

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Post #: 98

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 11:41:51 AM

Marc2b

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quote:

Yes it does...the arguements as to being a real artist if you get paid...hell yes...better paid than not....better having a full stomach than not.

The thing that galled some of the clients I've had was...I damn sure enjoyed what I was doing, damn sure enjoyed creating...and I got paid as well...sometimes I had to fight for my money, but I got paid.

You see, when a client attempts to make my work (creating art) a labour, no fun, as work is not to be enjoyed...Mormons are great for this.....then, project finished, client finished and bye bye.

Marc, the reason most artists have a day job, is because they cannot sell their art, they need to survive like anyone else...but to create with the intention of selling...hell man, that has been the intention of every artist. You think the great masters did it for the joy of painting, the Paris exposition of the past was done for a fling....no, every one of them wanted, strove for a commission, a portrait from some wealthy patron, a BUYER.

You misunderstand me. I don’t know of any artist who isn’t thrilled when their art sells – it is incredibility self validating. The argument ensues over the intent when you start the work. If you start a work with the intent to sell it then – according to some – you are a sell out because you are compromising yourself to the demands of the marketplace. If you create for the sole purpose of creating – again, according to some – then your purpose is pure and if it sells afterward, then that’s a bonus on top. I have noticed that the “pure of heart and mind crowd” tend to be better off financially than the “give the customers what they want,” crowd.

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Post #: 99

RE: Nude on Lunchtime TV - 7/8/2009 12:04:38 PM

ienigma777

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Joined: 2/20/2009
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Okay, I see your point....I have created oils, for myself, no intent to sell, but I've been latered offered, and turned down the sale...I like them myself.

As for creating with the 'crowd pleaser' mentality, intent to sell...the works really for the most part, are self defeating, in that, the artist is usually going for, or attempting to cater to the fad at the given time, whatever that fad may be.

Keene's.... Big Eyed children, dogs and cats is a good example.

Marc, I think you would like these films: The Girl with the Pearl earring....pay attention to the photography, very good and well done; story of Vemeer. Also, Armentisa (spelling?)...about a young female artist breaking into the male dominated art industry; a period film, lots of good stuff about Art as a Business. And Claudine Claudell (spelling is really bad here...where the hell is my proof reader now that I need her)..it's about Rodan, played by Gerard Depardieu,... about one of Rodan's proteage lovers. An interesting tid bit of a history at the end. The film stirred such a controversay in France, it was almost banned.

Good films very well done, and rather correct in many aspects.

(in reply to Marc2b)

Post #: 100

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