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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/7/2009 9:17:23 PM

Saint

Posts: 279
Status: offline

A friend of mine pointed this out the other day. He basically made the point that yes, all that equipment, wardrobe, etc. all costs a lot of money. This is true and that cannot be disputed. What can be disputed though is this. Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go? As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

_____________________________

"Anonymity is synonymous with longevity."
Faethor Ferenczy

"I wish I had an angel
For one moment of love
I wish I had your angel tonight"
Nightwish - Wish I had an Angel Tonight

(in reply to slavekal)

Post #: 21

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/7/2009 11:18:29 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

Well, the simple fact of the matter is the market makes up the reality of the price. People can complain all they want about it being too expensive, or they can put forth great analysis of how the costs for the dominant eventually become lessened after everything has been paid for, but it's a lot like being a lawyer. They charge those outrageous rates because they can. If no one ever wanted to pay them, then they couldn't charge so much.

Seeing a professional dominant is a luxury, and quite often men (more often than women clients) are charged extensive rates in order to see specific women. If you're seeing women at a general house then the prices may be lessened just by that fact alone. Sometimes, that might mean seeing someone more as a whim (depending upon who is working) or it may mean that some things just aren't as what one may have desired; or things might be great as I used to do sessions at houses of domination and everything was great. The solo mistresses can be quite expensive as sometimes the costs are pretty high to maintain these businesses, and therefore you're going to be paying that differential. In the end, it comes down to people will pay whatever the rate is that they charge.

Or they don't see anyone. If submissives stopped seeing dominant women because the prices were too high, or so many women got into the business that it was impossible to charge high prices because everyone was undercutting everyone else, then prices would go down. But that's not happening. A lot of clients are not being clients right now because they just can't afford it; I'm in that category. But instead of bemoaning that there's something wrong with the business model, I have to realize that quite a few working women are still getting clients, so the thing wrong is me, not them. If no one was working, then I could see a case for them charging too much, but again it would be on them to realize this, not for me to have to pass on this information to them. When they sat by a phone that stopped ringing for a month, that would tell the story far better than a submissive ever could.

The real problem I perceive is the one that has been discussed in this thread, and that's the case of wannabe subs who think they can get a typical paid session for free just by going after the lifestyle crowd. What they often forget, or just outright ignore, is that in such a situation there's a back and forth. Obviously, a dominant working for a living by doing dominant sessions is going to be willing to cater to my specific fantasies because I'm paying her money (not all, but most seem to go that way). But that doesn't happen when someone hooks up with a lifestyler. Basically, you have to give her something she wants in order to get something you want. And that's what makes reading these profiles and boards so interesting because it's frakking amazing how far off both sides can be in the chase and still manage to complain about how the other side is the one causing all the problems. Yet, the complaints keep coming.

You'd think the simple reality would result in the smart ones seeking out the other smart ones, but that doesn't happen very often. Instead, you have people seeking out the wrong people because of some minor item, like what someone might have been wearing in a profile picture, or because someone said something that resonated, even though the person had no idea what he or she was talking about when he or she said it. And then all sorts of hilarity ensues.

_____________________________

<---- FYI, this picture looks JUST like me

http://www.littlesarbonn.com/Stickman/Stickman.htm
The Adventures of Stickman and the Unemployed Lego Spaceman

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 22

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/7/2009 11:43:25 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go?

Gas, food, rent/mortgage, insurance, car payment, clothing, entertainment.... pretty much the same place your paycheck goes. If she has her own playspace (apart from her home), there is rent or mortgage on that as well.

quote:

As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

Ummm... do lawyers cut their fees when they pay off their law school loans?

Seriously, get it through your head that it's a business. There is a going rate for the services provided, and that rate is determined largely by what the clients are willing to pay.

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 23

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 12:56:45 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: funnyegg
This got me wondering, is it a lack of ready cash or a lack of nerve the real reason that some first time subbies won't session with a Pro-Domme?

Neither, necessarily. For some, the feeling of being genuinely wanted and desired in their submission is the keystone of their experience. By definition, that is not something you can pay for.

Some of those who are fueled by such desire will learn that in order to be themselves desired, they must become desirable. They may turn their sincere efforts to becoming such a creature that a woman would be proud to own, learning beauty and grace in service and submission. Others will either never learn this, or lack the discipline to become such a creature. Most commonly they simply lack the perception to understand what actually makes male submission potentially beautiful and desirable to a woman. They will remain, sadly, alone.

(in reply to funnyegg)

Post #: 24

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 1:05:55 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

They could be telling the truth about money. But it could also be that they find trading money for sexual adventures too much like prostitution. There is no real intimacy, and experiences like that can make some folks feel sleazy.

I must disagree. You might be surprised at how much intimacy and emotional vulnerability can occur during a pro session. In truth, for folks like me who play socially, personally AND professionally, it can be difficult to gauge the amount of chemistry and raw emotional intimacy that is likely to "click" in a given play session regardless of where it's happening or who it's happening with. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, and that doesn't always have a lot to do with whether the session is pro or not. Granted, if the session *isn't* pro and it doesn't click for me, I'll terminate it a lot faster rather than patiently working to get the energy back and leading the scene in the right direction.

Sleazy is as sleazy does. Some pro dommes encourage a sleazy atmosphere; others do not. And for some folks, well, that's their fetish.

I won't lie and say that pro domme sessions are not sexual; there is a very significant undercurrent of sexual energy in a good hot session, and a lot of naughty, kinky things can happen, within limits. But for reasons of safety and legality, I am not aware of any pro dommes who are willing to actually have sex or direct sexual contact with their clients. There may be some, but it is much more the rarity than the norm.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 7/8/2009 1:06:38 AM >

(in reply to slavekal)

Post #: 25

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 3:16:25 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

This thread kinda ticks me off.

The best solution is to get a relationship with a woman who either is a Domme, or is willing to service top you. I know that there are dozens of threads about how tough it is to find a Domme, but if you simply talk to one about what's going on in your lives, flirt with them, and show an interest in them as people, you won;t have any trouble.

Then there's Internet porn. This is something that didn't even exist thirty years ago.

Then there are the phone lines. $3 or $4 a minute. What does it take, five - ten minutes to get off?

Finally, there's just doing without. Being Dominated is not a guaranteed human right.

I work as an engineer. It took me years to get my degree, and years to get the experience I have. Nobody yet has asked me to work for free for them.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Post #: 26

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 3:23:27 AM

KinkyMadison

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/11/2009
Status: offline

Amen to that! I don't always demand tribute from My longterm slaves but they do contribute to My craft and lifestyle in other ways.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 27

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 4:06:40 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint

A friend of mine pointed this out the other day. He basically made the point that yes, all that equipment, wardrobe, etc. all costs a lot of money. This is true and that cannot be disputed. What can be disputed though is this. Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go? As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

Imagine working a 40 hour week and earning £250 an hour!!! Believe me it doesn't happen.
Unlike a friend of mine that set herself up in a donated dungeon in one of the most sort after and busiest places in London, worked a six hour day five days a week and earned enough to pay her over inflated mortgage off and have the cash to go out and buy herself a sports car within 6 months, most Pro Mistresses will only take on a couple of clients a day. Some will only get a couple of clients a week and others will hardly ever get a client because the location of there dungeon is just too far out of reach for most. Many pro's do this as a sideline because there day job doesn't leave them any surplus income.

I know a lot of pro Mistresses that only work enough hours to earn them the same as a 40 hour week that an average job would earn them. I know others that double, triple or quadruple a normal income but if they have the energy to do that then why not?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 28

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 4:30:55 AM

Saint

Posts: 279
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go?

Gas, food, rent/mortgage, insurance, car payment, clothing, entertainment.... pretty much the same place your paycheck goes. If she has her own playspace (apart from her home), there is rent or mortgage on that as well.

quote:

As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

Ummm... do lawyers cut their fees when they pay off their law school loans?
Seriously, get it through your head that it's a business. There is a going rate for the services provided, and that rate is determined largely by what the clients are willing to pay.

So following that vein of thought, if a pro-mistress makes 12000 per month at the rate of 3000 per week over the course of 4 weeks, are you still seriously saying that rent, mortgage, etc. costs that much? Wow, I really would like to know where someone is living that expenses are that much! Are you sprinkled with gold dust or something to be able to charge that?? I do not know of any mortgage or rent that costs 12000 per month. Actually, uhmmmm, yes laywers do end up cutting their fees when loans and things are paid off. Why? Because that is what the market can afford to pay at any given moment and any professional who has outrageous fees will soon find their clients going to cheaper alternatives.

Are you further suggesting though that a Pro-domme's money needed to start her business is somehow equivelent to that of student loans taken out by laywers and doctors? Kind of insulting to laywers and doctors isn't it? To say that all their years of schooling means nothing in comparison to someone who can snap her fingers and charge the same hourly rates without the benefit of an education. Also consider that after school is over, their loans amounts can be anywhere from 50,000 on up, depending on the institution. So can I please get a show of hands of how many Pro-dommes are on this board who start up their business with 50,000 dollars? Anyone out there like that? No? Okay, I thought it might be kind of difficult for pros to be able to get loan amounts like that for their business from their local lending institutions.

So lets see here, maybe 5000 dollars (high end amount here obviously as there are pros who do this with less than 300 dollars worth of equipment) to start out with. At the rate of 12,000 per month (following previous statements) this is paid off in less than 2 weeks. So again, where does all the money go? No amount of arguing will convince me that a pro needs 12000 dollars a month, 144,000 per year to maintain her equipment, pay rent, mortgage, whatever.

Yes, its a business. No dispute there. Yes, clients will pay money for sessions. But 12000 per month?? Very few if any single owner businesses make that and so instead of justifying it with outragious claims of rent, mortgage, upkeep, etc. why not be honest and say that it is good old fashioned greed for money? Nothing more, nothing less.

< Message edited by Saint -- 7/8/2009 4:55:56 AM >

_____________________________

"Anonymity is synonymous with longevity."
Faethor Ferenczy

"I wish I had an angel
For one moment of love
I wish I had your angel tonight"
Nightwish - Wish I had an Angel Tonight

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 29

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 4:36:00 AM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline

Going back to the original question:

This got me wondering, is it a lack of ready cash or a lack of nerve the real reason that some first time subbies won't session with a Pro-Domme?

I wasn't aware it was compulsory....

(in reply to slavekal)

Post #: 30

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 5:15:16 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go?

Gas, food, rent/mortgage, insurance, car payment, clothing, entertainment.... pretty much the same place your paycheck goes. If she has her own playspace (apart from her home), there is rent or mortgage on that as well.

quote:

As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

Ummm... do lawyers cut their fees when they pay off their law school loans?
Seriously, get it through your head that it's a business. There is a going rate for the services provided, and that rate is determined largely by what the clients are willing to pay.

So following that vein of thought, if a pro-mistress makes 12000 per month at the rate of 3000 per week over the course of 4 weeks, are you still seriously saying that rent, mortgage, etc. costs that much? Wow, I really would like to know where someone is living that expenses are that much! Are you sprinkled with gold dust or something to be able to charge that?? I do not know of any mortgage or rent that costs 12000 per month. Actually, uhmmmm, yes laywers do end up cutting their fees when loans and things are paid off. Why? Because that is what the market can afford to pay at any given moment and any professional who has outrageous fees will soon find their clients going to cheaper alternatives.

Are you further suggesting though that a Pro-domme's money needed to start her business is somehow equivelent to that of student loans taken out by laywers and doctors? Kind of insulting to laywers and doctors isn't it? To say that all their years of schooling means nothing in comparison to someone who can snap her fingers and charge the same hourly rates without the benefit of an education. Also consider that after school is over, their loans amounts can be anywhere from 50,000 on up, depending on the institution. So can I please get a show of hands of how many Pro-dommes are on this board who start up their business with 50,000 dollars? Anyone out there like that? No? Okay, I thought it might be kind of difficult for pros to be able to get loan amounts like that for their business from their local lending institutions.

So lets see here, maybe 5000 dollars (high end amount here obviously as there are pros who do this with less than 300 dollars worth of equipment) to start out with. At the rate of 12,000 per month (following previous statements) this is paid off in less than 2 weeks. So again, where does all the money go? No amount of arguing will convince me that a pro needs 12000 dollars a month, 144,000 per year to maintain her equipment, pay rent, mortgage, whatever.

Yes, its a business. No dispute there. Yes, clients will pay money for sessions. But 12000 per month?? Very few if any single owner businesses make that and so instead of justifying it with outragious claims of rent, mortgage, upkeep, etc. why not be honest and say that it is good old fashioned greed for money? Nothing more, nothing less.

Ok first off, if the pro is making 12000 a month, then I need to meet her right now. I have never met one that made that much money and I have a few questiong for her.

Second. What difference does it make how much money her equipment cost and whether or not it is paid off. The Fantastic Sams down the road has been there for years so I am pretty sure most of their equiptment it paid for and yet everytime I go there, they still try to charge me for a haircut. By your reasoning they should be doing it for free. I mean come on, how much does a pair of scissors cost anyway?

Pro are a business like any other business. If you can't afford one or choose not to visit one then by all means don't go. Just don't expect them to give it away for free. Anymore than you would expect any other business to give away their services.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 31

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 6:45:30 AM

chicagochick

Posts: 27
Joined: 4/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Actually, uhmmmm, yes laywers do end up cutting their fees when loans and things are paid off. Why? Because that is what the market can afford to pay at any given moment and any professional who has outrageous fees will soon find their clients going to cheaper alternatives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint

No offense, but I don't know what lawyers you are talking about who cut their fees once loans "and things" are paid off. I am a lawyer, I work for a large law firm (with lots of other lawyers) and know hundreds more that work everywhere from in house corporations, to single person solo shops and to the best of my knowledge not one of them has reduced their prices based on the status of student loans. As you get more experienced as an attorney, your prices tend to go up (to a point), not down just because you have paid off loans. That doesn't mean that you can't find a cheaper lawyer willing to do the job, but you won't walk into any law firm or lawyer's office that I've ever known and pay less because they don't have student loans or a mortgage to pay off.

Do some lawyers, and I assume some Pro-Dommes, charge "too much" and scare away clients to competitors? Absolutely. But most lawyers I know that have trouble attracting clients aren't in that position because of what they charge, more that they either aren't very good at what they do, or their particular field has been hit hard by the economy etc. The reality is, the charges are set by what the market can bear, and yes that does fluctuate at times but I certainly don't see anyone I know holding a "fire sale" for legal services and I would expect much the same response from Pro-Dommes.

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 32

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 9:32:57 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: funnyegg

I read on some boards the moanings of some subs who complain that Pro-Dommes charge too much per hour and that they cannot afford to session with one. They're being greedy and all that mush.

Given sufficient cost-cutting and saving up, sooner or later the money for a single session can be found.

This got me wondering, is it a lack of ready cash or a lack of nerve the real reason that some first time subbies won't session with a Pro-Domme?

Well yanno, I really wanted a caribbean vacation this last winter. Unfortunately I didn't have the money for it so...........oh sad sorry me.......I didn't get it.

It's not like I really NEEEEEEEEEDED that caribbean vacation to survive, just like it's not like a bottom really NEEEEEEDS a "session" to survive.

C'est la vie!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to funnyegg)

Post #: 33

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 9:37:29 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: funnyegg

This got me wondering, is it a lack of ready cash or a lack of nerve the real reason that some first time subbies won't session with a Pro-Domme?

It could be the emptiness and lack of connection the person feels afterward.

(in reply to funnyegg)

Post #: 34

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 10:10:50 AM

TheLadyLolaNJ

Posts: 6
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saint

A friend of mine pointed this out the other day. He basically made the point that yes, all that equipment, wardrobe, etc. all costs a lot of money. This is true and that cannot be disputed. What can be disputed though is this. Once the initial investment in all of that is paid off, then where does the rest of the money go? As he pointed out, maintenance on furniture, leather equipment and clothing hardly requires 300 dollars per hour, per client. And if a pro is seeing 5 - 10 clients per week, that is 1500 to 3000 dollars cash. So with that point, why does the fee still remain the same once the initial investment is paid for?

What would you, or your friend, know about maintaining a professional dungeon? That equipment isn't cheap, and like any service industry the better equipped, educated, and experienced one is, the more one can charge. The dungeon I work out of is exceedingly well equipped, and requires the type of maintenance any house would require, and any homeowner knows that can really burn thru money.
Not only that, but a ProDomme has bills like anyone else, and doesn't have the option to be part of the company health plan, so that's out of pocket, too. Not to mention the personal maintenance that every woman has to do, except even more so.

What really pisses me off tho, is when these "do me" subs, tell me that I only ProSwitch for money, and that must mean that I don't really enjoy what I do. EFF THAT! I do this work BECAUSE I love it, and I'm lifestyle, too. I get up in the morning happy because of what I do, I like making people happy, as cheesey as that sounds, and I'm good at it, so it's fulfilling to me. Just because they might be unhappy with their job, doesn't mean my career is just a paycheck. And since I work for myself, and can't just show up at a job, all the legwork, getting clients, advertising etc. is on ME. Which means I work a ton more than the hour session I'm paid for. Anyone who works for themself will tell you they work harder than they ever did when they worked for someone else.
And I can tell you being a sex worker means you get gouged with pricing. Maybe you have some leather restraints in your bedroom and a flogger or two, but replacing equipment, constantly replacing wardrobes (panties, nylons, shoes, and OMG LATEX!) that are fetish/sexy is expensive because the people we buy them from know we need these things, so we HAVE to pay. That's why I have all this stuff, and your wife/gf doesn't. You can't afford/she can't afford to have it all sitting there waiting for you, so we do, and we pay thru the nose for it.

< Message edited by TheLadyLolaNJ -- 7/8/2009 10:12:39 AM >

(in reply to Saint)

Post #: 35

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 1:46:04 PM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Fast Reply

Saint, you are entitled to your opinions, however on this subject you haven't taken the time to reason things out. Perhaps you simply don't KNOW any ProDommes and therefore speak from ignorance (I genuinely hope that's the case).

Your math is incorrect. I used to do two to four sessions a week. Sometimes I would schedule more and sometimes less - or none on hard weeks (Christmas and other holidays were quite slow, and don't even ASK about My business after 9-11) I charged $100 per hour and most sessions lasted two to four hours - so using averages (three sessions @ three hours each), thats roughly $900 a week. I live about an hours drive from Atlanta, so quite often someone would be at My dungeon an extra hour or two just for aftercare (which I didn't charge for) so I was sure they were safe to drive.

When I was pro, I maintained a dungeon, equipment, wardrobe, and My personal appearance. I also maintained a wardrobe specifically for My sissies, including wigs, makeup, glue-on nails, hosiery and lingerie. (Both sexy and fetishy lingerie in men's sizes have to be special ordered or made and that costs big bucks. I was an enema/medical specialist, and due to hygiene and health issues had to have sterilized and/or individual-use items available at a moment's notice. Quality enema bags and catheters are quite expensive and hard to get ahold of. (many of My clients would have had to place a minimum order, so when they'd come to Me, I'd sell them smaller quantities for use at home - just another service I provided) I catered to role players, so I had a closet full of costumes and props. Now I sew, so many of the clothing needs I could make Myself, but have you walked through a fabric store and priced cloth lately? Do I get reimbursed for the many HOURS I spent out-of-scene that contributed to making each session a quality experience?

Those are just the business expenses and considerations. I took home barely enough to pay My personal bills sometimes.

Now, there's this comment "There is no real intimacy, and experiences like that can make some folks feel sleazy." I can't speak for all Pro's (there's good and bad in EVERY profession) but this simply isn't true for Me. I had a very deep connection with many of My clients. Some inspired My maternal response. Some were so damned sexy they inspired erotic or even romantic responses. Some shared a side of themselves with Me that they couldn't (or wouldn't) share anywhere else. When they looked into My eyes and listened to My voice and found acceptance and interest, their walls fell and allowed us to have a "relationship" like they'd never experienced before. I would often receive phone calls just to share something in their lives. I would help them find a NON-Pro if they really wanted this in their everyday lives (I have at least THREE marriages credited to Me). I would help them get the nerve to talk to their wives, and often received phone calls FROM wives for reassurance and even tips on how to bond anew with their husbands. True, sometimes a session would fall flat - so I would only charge the deposit (to recover My time) and I'd recommend another Domme who might be a better match. Believe Me, this is SO not about money for Me. My slavehusband was totally supportive of My craft and took pride in knowing that his willingness to share My time helped and enriched others' lives.

Next there's this: " Are you further suggesting though that a Pro-domme's money needed to start her business is somehow equivelent to that of student loans taken out by laywers and doctors? Kind of insulting to laywers and doctors isn't it? To say that all their years of schooling means nothing in comparison to someone who can snap her fingers and charge the same hourly rates without the benefit of an education." Jeeze... I have several thoughts about this statement. First off, I have spent YEARS learning My craft. I have taken time to learn anatomy, psychology, knot tying, first aid, CPR, and so much more. I have learned the value of good communication skills and I know when it's time to show compassion and when I really need to crank down and wring that next, last sweet tear from them. I've done research, and surrounded Myself with friends in many fields in order to create safer, wilder, and more satisfying sessions.

Secondly, Doctors and Lawyers are able to walk into a classroom and learn their craft with heads held high. Dommes are still misunderstood and ridiculed, and in many locales Professional Domination is illegal. If the laws of our country weren't so judgemental and victorian, there would be less risk involved. We could openly advertise and we wouldn't have to be worried that "this session might be the one that gets Me arrested". Even though I never "cross the line" and do anything sexual, I worry that I might have a client who has an undiagnosed heart condition, or perhaps an allergy they never discovered. THERE IS RISK INVOLVED - and yet there is a NEED for what we do. Yes, we're a luxury to some, but sometimes we are the only people who can look into someone's eyes with acceptance.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

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(in reply to TheLadyLolaNJ)

Post #: 36

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 2:33:35 PM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline

Minimum wage in Ohio is $7:00/hour and $8:00/ hour in California. If you go to the govement census page for 2000 - 2001, the average worker in the US made $16:23/hour. Again if you do the math, that person cannot afford a Pro Domme on a regular basis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I know it's different for every one, but Daddy makes close to 600 dollars a pay check, and at his other job location* same job just new location* he was making almost 700 to 800 *and even with the percentage the 401k takes how he's still bringing home about 556 dollars a pay check. And yes he works about 40 hours a week. And I think his minimum wage is like 9.50 an hour, but I can't be sure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Well, lets do a little math to see how feasible it is for an average person to afford a Pro Domme

Lets take an average person, oh making $12/hour. For a 40 hour work week they gross $480. Okay lets take out taxes, insurance etc. $480 x 0.68 = $326

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(in reply to Toppingfrmbottom)

Post #: 37

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 3:22:29 PM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
SB, when I was a pro, I was ALWAYS getting guys wanting to "bargain". A session with me was $250.

250? well dayum I'm gonna go out right now n buy an outfit! and uh well okay I'm sure I can just..erm..well..figure the rest out. I'll just take first timers so they dunno what a real pro domme is like!

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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 38

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 3:22:56 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

In response to the OP (yes, there really was one) I am more inclined to say that it's fear based. I think this is especially true for first timers. The fantasy of a session might be fantastic, but actually taking that fantasy to reality can be frightening. I don't think that's any different just because it's with a pro. I'm sure there are a lot of bottoms (it's play related, so I'm sticking with that term) out there that would agree that their first scene had a fear element mixed into it. Add to that the fact that this would be someone you are not in a relationship and I'm sure that fear is compounded.

As for the money, I agree that it's expensive. It's already been mentioned that it's a luxury expense, not a necessity like a place to live or food. People with the means eat out at posh restaurants spend about the same for a good meal/dining experience and the bill can run the same as a pro session. Nobody jumps up and down about that, believing fine french restaurants should lower their prices. Nobody says all of the kitchen equipment is paid for so they should charge less per plate. In fact, if it's a good, long standing restaurant, they are probably charging more per plate now than when they were first starting out because other costs have risen.

Like any other person with a business, you have to take not only what it costs for the business to run, you also have to include your personal necessities (food, shelter, etc.) so that your business (with you running it) can continue to operate. Those don't stop because business is better or worse. There has to be a profit so that a person can live their life away from the business related life as well.

The idea that a femdom, any femdom, either professional or lifestyle (or both) should have to start providing her services to any and every bottom who wants to be catered to, is just as ridiculous. It's honestly not a charity ward. In other words, that need of a scene that the bottom has, may not especially match My wants. If it doesn't have some benefit to Me, I'm not wasting My time, energy, money, or supplies. I'm a lifestyle Domme and I don't tend to do casual scenes that will have Me incur any more than minimal costs in most cases. I won't spend money on needles, staples, single person use toys (such as gags or plugs) to be used on just some random bottom that comes along.

As long as there are bottoms out there who are willing to pay whatever charge the pro has determined, I don't think the price is going to come down. All of the complaining, whining, and moaning isn't going to change it.

My last comment though does include one small thing. Don't be so sure that only professionals are the ones that incur a lot of expense on toys, classes, conventions, and other costs. Some lifestyle Dommes have darn near the same size collection and also put a lot of work into their skill. The pros don't have the corner of the market on that.

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(in reply to funnyegg)

Post #: 39

RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 3:47:45 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

There are a lot of great posts on this thread. Lady Pact's is particularly one with a number of really good points.
Those of us who choose to spend our money on things of interest, even if it isn't something we do professionally, often spend a lot of money on such things.
As Calandra noted, a well-appointed pro's material expenses can be tremendous.
And, as someone who isn't a pro-domme, I'm rather taken aback by the statements of some that would seem to liken pro-domme fees to the exorbitant incomes of Enron executives or some such. A person providing a service deserves to be paid for their time. Pay is usually based on expertise and on what the market will bear.
As to the OP's question, I would say a combination of both but moreso fear. Approach-avoidance conflict and such. Sometimes people can't handle getting what they want.
Davan

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 40

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