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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 4:40:34 PM   
Missokyst


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Yep, some people cannot afford it.  But guess what?  It is a luxury and not a right.  I work in a job that pays me fairly well but I pay for my own stuff if I need it, pray that I never need a doctor for anything because I don't have insurance.
I have not had a vacation in 5 yrs.  Vacations are not a right they are a result of planning, time, a money.  It is a luxury and not a right.  I don't moan and complain about it.
I never get why all these people who complain think their life is so difficult because it costs too much to get their jollies. 
Whack it yourself.  I do.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Minimum wage in Ohio is $7:00/hour and $8:00/ hour in California. If you go to the govement census page for 2000 - 2001, the average worker in the US made $16:23/hour. Again if you do the math, that person cannot afford a Pro Domme on a regular basis.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I know it's different for every one, but Daddy makes close to 600 dollars a pay check, and at his other job location* same job just new location* he was making almost 700 to 800 *and even with the percentage the 401k takes how he's still bringing home about 556 dollars a pay check. And yes he works about 40 hours a week. And I think his minimum wage is like 9.50 an hour, but I can't be sure.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Well, lets do a little math to see how feasible it is for an average person to afford a Pro Domme

Lets take an average person, oh making $12/hour. For a 40 hour work week they gross $480. Okay lets take out taxes, insurance etc. $480 x 0.68 = $326





< Message edited by Missokyst -- 7/8/2009 4:41:19 PM >

(in reply to mummyman321)
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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 5:06:39 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: funnyegg

I read on some boards the moanings of some subs who complain that Pro-Dommes charge too much per hour and that they cannot afford to session with one. They're being greedy and all that mush.

Given sufficient cost-cutting and saving up, sooner or later the money for a single session can be found.

This got me wondering, is it a lack of ready cash or a lack of nerve the real reason that some first time subbies won't session with a Pro-Domme?



I think it's a lack of Sunday Times coupons.

(in reply to funnyegg)
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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 11:10:26 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

So following that vein of thought, if a pro-mistress makes 12000 per month at the rate of 3000 per week over the course of 4 weeks, are you still seriously saying that rent, mortgage, etc. costs that much? Wow, I really would like to know where someone is living that expenses are that much!

As has been said by others, your math is incorrect. Most pros don't make anywhere near that kind of money, and there are many other expenses involved (thank you to the ladies who have posted about that )
quote:

Are you sprinkled with gold dust or something to be able to charge that??

Ummm... was that a general "you"? I'm a submissive and am not, nor have I ever been, a pro Domme. I just get sick of hearing the whining of subs who think they should get sessions on the cheap or free, and even more sick of hearing how professionals who have spent years perfecting their craft don't deserve to be paid for their time.
quote:

Actually, uhmmmm, yes laywers do end up cutting their fees when loans and things are paid off. Why? Because that is what the market can afford to pay at any given moment and any professional who has outrageous fees will soon find their clients going to cheaper alternatives.

Horseshit. Honestly, what world do you live in? Lawyers will charge what the market will bear, just like any other business person. The better their record and reputation, the more they are able to charge for their services. A lawyers fees go up as they gain experience, not down. Unsurprisingly, the same is true of pro Dommes. Reputation, experience, and range of activities offered will often be reflected in the fee charged.
quote:

Are you further suggesting though that a Pro-domme's money needed to start her business is somehow equivelent to that of student loans taken out by laywers and doctors? Kind of insulting to laywers and doctors isn't it? To say that all their years of schooling means nothing in comparison to someone who can snap her fingers and charge the same hourly rates without the benefit of an education.

As a matter of fact, I discussed this thread with a close friend who is both an MD and a Dom, and he laughed at the idea that he should be insulted nearly as hard as he laughed at the idea of a doctor's or lawyer's fees going down when their student loans are paid off. From the pro side, I think Calandra covered the education issue quite well. As for "snapping her fingers" yadda yadda, you really don't know much about pro Dommes, do you? There is a bit more involved than owning a leather outfit, high heels, and a flogger, FFS. I must say that your opinion of pros is shining through quite nicely, though.
quote:

Okay, I thought it might be kind of difficult for pros to be able to get loan amounts like that for their business from their local lending institutions.

Correct. That means that the money for all of her equipment, play space, classes taken, costumes, wigs, single use items, makeup, and everything else probably came out of her own savings.
quote:

So lets see here, maybe 5000 dollars (high end amount here obviously as there are pros who do this with less than 300 dollars worth of equipment) to start out with.

If you think a pro with $300 worth of equipment who is just starting out is getting the kind of money top pros with thousands of dollars worth of equipment, costumes, etc and years of experience, reputation, and education make, you are quite deluded.

As I said, I'm a sub. I have also spent a hell of a lot of  money (somewhere over $1000) on "equipment", even though I have made rather than bought most of my own impact toys and both my wardrobe and toybag are quite minimal compared to what a pro D is expected to have. Do you know what a single corset, leather flogger, or pair of thigh high "bitch boots" costs? I suspect not.
quote:

Yes, its a business. No dispute there. Yes, clients will pay money for sessions. But 12000 per month?? Very few if any single owner businesses make that and so instead of justifying it with outragious claims of rent, mortgage, upkeep, etc. why not be honest and say that it is good old fashioned greed for money? Nothing more, nothing less.

This has been addressed. You are taking an amount made by few if any pros and trying to turn it into what all pros make.
Lastly, since it is evident that you see pro Dommes as greedy, uneducated money grubbers taking advantage of poor, innocent submissives, I suggest you avoid them completely. Most will probably thank you for that.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 7/8/2009 11:28:21 PM >


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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 11:21:21 PM   
LadySweetOrSour


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*adores Wyld child, as usual*

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/8/2009 11:44:38 PM   
WyldHrt


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*smooches MissM* 
I think I'll try the Saint Method at my favourite sushi bar next week. I'll let them know that, since their equipment is paid for, I expect a deep discount on my lunch bill. That should go over well... 


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"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 12:10:56 AM   
ZenDragoness


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If you want something you have to pay, in which way is defined by the realtionship or the seller/buyer relation.

Having been a sexworker on the phone for some time in my wild years i can tell you, that the whining clients are the ones i never worked with. As in real life i prefer my men or women to know what they want, so i never started the Call before i knew exactly what the man wanted.

Whining clients comes in all shapes and forms, opposite to general belief they are not tickling my sadistic streak, they bring the contact ends here reaction out of me.

Luckily i always was earning enough to have had the luxury to decide who i took on for the Call.

For a man who wants to be dominated, there are many ways to meet a dominant lady. As always charme, wit and a real interest in the woman are the ways into somebodys interest category. And if you are only interested in getting your needs fulfilled, you simply have to pay and to put the money aside beforehand.



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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 4:18:25 AM   
islandgyrl


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I have read this thread with interest and have enjoyed the questions and answers. It seems that if someone wants a service or an item that is expensive they may choose several paths. One is to work a second job to obtain your goal. Many people work second or part time jobs for other reasons such as to purchase their first home. Is it unreasonable to do so to be able to afford the luxury of professional sessions?
 
Supply and demand determine the price one pays. Go to school. There is a nice course called Economics that will answer most of your questions.
 
Another thought that comes to mind is that most professions are long-term. Meaning that you may be able to work your craft until retirement. Does anyone know of professional Dommes in their 60's or 70's? No? Well then that means their "life expectancy" in the profession is limited to the number of years that they are attractive by societies norms. With this in mind I would guess that unless they made mad money and invested wisely, they would have to work in another career after retiring from the pro life.
 
To enter the job market isn't easy for anyone. It may be especially difficult for someone to explain the gap in their employment history. Then there is the cost of returning to school to get a marketable skill.
 
As for the cost of living, try living in Hawaii. Most regular folk here work 2 or 3 jobs just to survive.
 
Island

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 4:32:44 AM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Well, lets do a little math to see how feasible it is for an average person to afford a Pro Domme

Lets take an average person, oh making $12/hour. For a 40 hour work week they gross $480. Okay lets take out taxes, insurance etc. $480 x 0.68 = $326

Okay...now what does a Pro Domme charge. Browsing the various ads it varies from $150/hour to $1500/hour. But on average I see a lot of ads in the $250 to $300 for a session which will go 1.5 to 2 hours.

Now for the average person if they own a house and have a house payment, car payment, utilities and groceries, there is little money left over. I could go into a detail analysis of average house and utilites but I think its pretty clear Pro Dommes are very unaffordable for a lot of people.

I am niether for or against Pro Dommes. But the reality is that they are very unaffordable for a lot of people.



What would be a benefit to the people, would be the setting up of properley run, healthcare conscious brothels, ranches etc where all these human 'needs' can be catered for in safety.

The trouble is those that govern us will not admit to the frailties that are in the human race, they know they are there, they have them themselves, that much is obvious from media headlines, but they fear something they see as dirty and dishonourable. Would it not be just better if we could all dig out our darkness in safety. Priests too, put on civvies and go to an establishment, if a parishoner sees them, so what, it would be reassurance that both parties are human.

Good for the anthropologists too, maybe with their skills and access to humanity, we might get a better understanding of ourselves.


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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 5:48:12 AM   
DemonKia


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Wyld, your post (along with all the other thoughtful posts on the subject) inspired this thought to pry itself out of the chaos of my mind: there's a catch-22 situation for women in this. Take simple vanilla sex: if we give it away freely, we're sluts & disrespected by the general culture. If we charge for it, we're prostitutes & similarly subject to stigma, shaming, & etc . .. . . & if we're prudent 'gatekeepers' so many of the erstwhile 'key-masters' wanna offer up some critique of how we err in one direction or the other .. . . . . If it weren't for the possibility of individual relationships with appreciative others, there could be no winning in this one . . . . .

Also, something that's apparent from having read thru a number of these professional-dominant threads is that there is clearly some kinda expectation on the part of some uninformed newcomers to the out-&-organized kink world that there's gonna be some kinda easy-to-rally repudiation of the pros, which is funny as hell considering that pros are a part of the 'backbone' of the out-&-organized kink world . . .. ..

ETA: OP, the only hope of bringing down the prices of professional sexual services is to legalize them. *shrugs* Won't necessarily make 'em 'cheap', but it seems to me that making something as innocuous as prostitution or professional domination illegal or quasi-illegal serves to hike up the prices . . . .

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 7/9/2009 5:50:38 AM >


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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 6:25:13 AM   
MsFlutter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

Fast Reply

Saint, you are entitled to your opinions, however on this subject you haven't taken the time to reason things out. Perhaps you simply don't KNOW any ProDommes and therefore speak from ignorance (I genuinely hope that's the case).

Your math is incorrect. I used to do two to four sessions a week. Sometimes I would schedule more and sometimes less - or none on hard weeks (Christmas and other holidays were quite slow, and don't even ASK about My business after 9-11) I charged $100 per hour and most sessions lasted two to four hours - so using averages (three sessions @ three hours each), thats roughly $900 a week. I live about an hours drive from Atlanta, so quite often someone would be at My dungeon an extra hour or two just for aftercare (which I didn't charge for) so I was sure they were safe to drive.




Calandra - you rock ! I really enjoyed your thoughtful response.
 
The personal maintenance alone can be incredibly expensive in terms of time AND money. Time at the gym, esthetician  (waxing/facials person), hair salon, tanning, nail salon can really take a chunk out of one's day. Assume an hour for each task and that is WHY they call them spa DAYS!
 
(all figures approximate)
Health club membership: $65/month

Facial:      $60 + tip
Nails:        $40 + tip
Tanning:    $30/month
Waxing:     $68 + tip (full leg & bikini)
Hair: cut     $35+ tip

Hair color  $65 + tip
 
Assuming a golden figure of $250/hr - the cost of one spa day just consumed that.
 
It is unlikely anyone will grumble about their lawyer having a unibrow as long as he has the appropriate bloodlust to defeat opposing counsel. 

Personal maintenance for (in this case) a ProDomme) is about personal discipline and wanting to appear well-groomed because yes, it DOES matter to both the Domme and her clients!


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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 8:09:31 AM   
ZenDragoness


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Islandgyrl,

i very much enjoyed your words. Especially the part about the possibility to learn about economics, time spend with learning about something so essential is well invested.

ZD

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 8:18:57 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Dang, I wish I could have gotten the money some folks think pros make!  Why didn't I?  Because I didn't see every wanker who applied!  Sad fact is, many to most pros are choosy about who they work with---the obnoxo boys, the wankers, the gross, just don't get appointments!  I didn't have the energy to see more than two clients a day.  Pro domination is WORK. 

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 8:37:15 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: islandgyrl
Does anyone know of professional Dommes in their 60's or 70's? No? Well then that means their "life expectancy" in the profession is limited to the number of years that they are attractive by societies norms. With this in mind I would guess that unless they made mad money and invested wisely, they would have to work in another career after retiring from the pro life.

The pros I have known personally have all done prodomming part-time.  This has been true of the fetish modeling or fetish-video-"acting" women I've known, too.  It's not enough to be a sole source of income.  Maybe the "stereotype" would be: a grad student in her mid-20's in a humanities or art field, who beats men's butts on the weekend.

I have met women in their 40s or early 50s who charged for sessions, but we didn't know each other well enough that I felt comfortable asking about their finances.  My general sense of things, though, is that almost no one is just a prodomme, or a fetish model -- in the same way as almost no one is just an artist or a musician.  You need a regular job.


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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 8:42:05 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I do know some who are exclusively pro doms.  They are...  less selective, shall we say?  They HAVE to be.  Regarding the age of working doms, and their looks---in Europe especially there are pro doms working well into middle age, and here and there many do not have that supermodel look.  Get a copy of Domination Directory International, and look at the really successful women like Irene Boss.  Also, there is a market for videos, photos, web content, erotica, that can add to a person's income stream reasonably well.



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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 8:44:42 AM   
MissJana


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I just want to say bravo to all the ladies and gents who had intelligent answers in this thread. It is amazing at how many subs just do not get it when it comes to pro Dommes.

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 11:13:30 AM   
MistressRouge


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I cant afford a Bentley, however will never winge about it

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 11:47:39 AM   
funnyegg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In response to the OP (yes, there really was one)



Nice to know I'm not forgotten amidst all the tangents in this thread. Also thanks to all that have contributed.

I think alot of it is down to economics, as pro-domming seems to involve much specialist labour.
First of all there is the Pro-Domme herself, she's specialist labour. Assuming she's taken time to learn the ropes, canes, etc.
The manufacture of specialist gear requires specialist labour, so its purchase cannot be cheap.
So it's not solely the PDs hours your for paying for. Some of that hourly fee finds it way back up the supply chain.

Another point:
Granted that they are people who genuinely cannot find the cash to visit a pro. On the other hand there are those who cannot find the courage to visit a pro and are only pleading poverty as an excuse to protect their egos.

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 1:39:19 PM   
TheLadyLolaNJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: funnyegg


Another point:
Granted that they are people who genuinely cannot find the cash to visit a pro. On the other hand there are those who cannot find the courage to visit a pro and are only pleading poverty as an excuse to protect their egos.


I don't think they plead poverty to protect thier ego, because admitting they're poor may not be anything to be ashamed of, but it's not exactly "ego saving".
What they usually do to protect thier egos is to:
A. Call me a whore/prostitute/hooker etc.
B. Say I'm not really interested in BDSM, I only do it for the money
C. Say they can't pay for a session because it doesn't seem "real" or that they wouldn't be able to "get into it" if money were involved.
D. After being directed to my website, don't see/ignore the first page which clearly states I'm a ProSwitch

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 4:26:27 PM   
justme1980


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why do you need a Pro? Whats wrong with a non pro?

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RE: Too poor to see a Pro-Domme? - 7/9/2009 4:36:56 PM   
herbcaroll


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I do realize that a pro has expenses, and these costs must be covered. But I also realize that now, with the state of the economy and so many people out of work or doing their banking at a pawn shop, the price has to be affordable. I see more and more of a barter system evolving. Most of us don't have an extra 3 Benjamins to toss around for a one hour session particularly if we have other vices. In economic terms, it is "Elasticity of Demand".

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