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whoa...where did that come from? I could not care less if two homosexuals want to hold hands in public, any more that two heterosexuals.

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

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I take it that everyone agreeing and applauding this supports the "right wing" position of many communities in the US concerning same sex partners holding hands and showing affection to each other. How "self centered" of them to show their love for their partner in public!

Bear..as one that agreed with Callas post, i take offense to the above. If it was meant in a sarcastic light, fine. I did not see it that way.

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I'm offended by the hypocrisy being expressed.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I was thinking about this thread this morning and I think it all comes down to something my great aunt used to say.

(Envision a woman, that looked like Eleanor Roosevelt, with a strong New Orleans accent.)

"Honey there is a difference between being born poor white trash and behaving like poor white trash. The first you have no choice, the second you do."

She had many sentences that would start with "A lady............." Now granted, a great deal of her "A lady....."s were things I don't particularly care about. After all, she was well into her old age when I was just a wee one. But when I look at the people I look up to, the people I respect and hold in high regard, they have a certain class. A certain dignity, way of conducting themselves. There is a reason they are respected.

Now, I don't feel I need to always wear a slip under my dress, or stockings, wear gloves and a hat when going outside, like my great aunt. But I do remember a certain graciousness and dignity, a manner of personal conduct, that still gains a person a certain reciprocal treatment. I like that. I strive to maintain some of that. Not because of legal rights, not to garner any sort of public attention, but because it is the way I enjoy being treated in return.

So, I guess if people want to be perceived as trash (to use my great aunt's words) and they are operating well within their legal rights, more power to them. If they are happy playing in that gutter, I don't really care. I just don't have to get down in the garbage with them. I am quite happy maintaining my rights of self expression within boundaries of dignity and decency towards others.

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ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
however, I don't deign to engage this person in any further discussions.

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Hell...go ahead and have a public suck-off in the toilet paper aisle of WallyWorld...if i was offended i would turn around and go the other way...otherwise i would simply stand there and laugh at you.

But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

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guess if people want to be perceived as trash (to use my great aunt's words) and they are operating well within their legal rights, more power to them. If they are happy playing in that gutter, I don't really care. I just don't have to get down in the garbage with them. I am quite happy maintaining my rights of self expression within boundaries of dignity and decency toward others.

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

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I'm offended by the hypocrisy being expressed.

But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I'm afraid that, philosophically, I have to agree with the teddy bear on this one... While individual freedoms are vital (and most everyone here has heard my diatribe on personal freedoms and responsibilities), I think that we, individually, have a responsibility to consider the sensibilities of those around us when we decide how we are going to PRESENT our individual choices. To ignore that responsibility is to make a mockery of the entire process of being a civilized individual and living in a communal environment. Community is not just about one person and his "rights" (which, as many of you know, I prefer to call "freedoms"), but also about the responsibility with which we -manage- those freedoms in order to be able to maintain a functional communal environment. As long as we are subjected to living in community, we have a responsibility, as rational adults, to consider not ONLY our personal desires, but the health, comfort, and freedom of the society in which we live and those neighbors with whom we must interact when we make choices about our personal behavior. In many places this is called "etiquette" or "good manners". It isn't about making laws to -regulate- behavior... it is a concomitant responsibility that comes along with having personal freedoms. The reason that we feel the need to create -laws- to regulate these kinds of things is, at least in part, because there are so -many- individuals who will not take responsibility for their share in maintaining the communal aspects of existence without being forced. Selfish, self-centered behavior is not -only- boorish and rude... it is also irresponsible and contributes to excessive legislation of not only one's -own- freedoms, but the freedoms of everyone else in the community. Dame Calla

• Case in point. There was some controversy years ago in NYC about a piece of art using elephant dung as the material in the portrayal of the Virgin Mary. Do I think that was classy? No. Did I go to view it? No. However, I would still defend the artist's right to express himself in whatever way he saw fit. It's a legally protected right. I chose to not patronize the museum that this display was at during the time it was present.

• Case in point. Breast feeding versus exposure of the female breast. Both are legal, with the stipulation that the exposure of said breast is not for commercial purposes. I find both situations equally tacky but I would just as soon defend an individual's right to do so. Why? Because it is their legally protected right to do so.

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Hell...go ahead and have a public suck-off in the toilet paper aisle of WallyWorld...if i was offended i would turn around and go the other way...otherwise i would simply stand there and laugh at you.

But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

Ah, so we've gone from the broad "individual freedoms" to the specific of a public suck off in the toilet paper aisle of WallyWorld". Good - we're starting a list. I'd enjoin in laughing and move on too.

However, if your child is "too young to understand" what explaining works? Is, "those people were showing they really like each other. I don't think people should do that here or in public, I don't like seeing it, lets go to another aisle" too broad? Granted a silly, "Didn't you hear that fart? His friend is just trying to re-inflate him"; may not convey the lack of appropriateness in public sentiment that you want to convey.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I take it that everyone agreeing and applauding this supports the "right wing" position of many communities in the US concerning same sex partners holding hands and showing affection to each other. How "self centered" of them to show their love for their partner in public! Let's chain them up and drag them behind the pick-up for a few miles and scrape off that disgusting homosexuality from their sinning bodies.
Yeah - it IS about personal freedoms. The personal freedoms of individuals to live as they choose, and the personal freedom of someone who doesn't like it to walk away.
I'd agree that "self centered behavior" is "boorish and rude". What's more self centered than applying your personal standards of decorum and thinking anything outside of them inappropriate?

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ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly

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I'm offended by the hypocrisy being expressed.

But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

holly this is not directly at you but anyone who says the above bolded section.

Could SOMEONE ANYONE tell me exactly what RIGHT that is?

I know I have the Right to Speak my Mind, I have the Right to Religion, I have the right to bear arms.

What Right is the above included in?

I can't find one.

Steel

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly
But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

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ORIGINAL: sirsholly
But it is generally not just me. I have a very young child, and i have the right to take him into a public place without having to attempt to explain behavior which he is too young to understand.

Holly, I know you and I will probably disagree with this, but I do not see why two people of whatever sexual orientation, kissing in a toilet tissue aisle of a supermarket is seen as offensive?  And if my child had noticed, I don't see the issue of explaining what it is?  But in all honesty, unless I stood there and stared or actually pointed at them wagging my finger - in other words - making it a spectacle, would a child really notice it in the sense that it is a bad thing?  We condition children ourselves into what is good or not good.  If you are ashamed of your body, of kissing, of anything... you cause your own offspring to pick up the vibes.
 

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I am going to go on to say that I honestly believe people totally do not understand children or young teens at all. People really have no idea just how bright and clever they are. People underestimate children

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I'm afraid that, philosophically, I have to agree with the teddy bear on this one... While individual freedoms are vital (and most everyone here has heard my diatribe on personal freedoms and responsibilities), I think that we, individually, have a responsibility to consider the sensibilities of those around us when we decide how we are going to PRESENT our individual choices. To ignore that responsibility is to make a mockery of the entire process of being a civilized individual and living in a communal environment. Community is not just about one person and hir "rights" (which, as many of you know, I prefer to call "freedoms"), but also about the responsibility with which we -manage- those freedoms in order to be able to maintain a functional communal environment.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

As long as we are subjected to living in community, we have a responsibility, as rational adults, to consider not ONLY our personal desires, but the health, comfort, and freedom of the society in which we live and those neighbors with whom we must interact when we make choices about our personal behavior.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

In many places this is called "etiquette" or "good manners". It isn't about making laws to -regulate- behavior... it is a concomitant responsibility that comes along with having personal freedoms. The reason that we feel the need to create -laws- to regulate these kinds of things is, at least in part, because there are so -many- individuals who will not take responsibility for their share in maintaining the communal aspects of existence without being forced.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Selfish, self-centered behavior is not -only- boorish and rude... it is also irresponsible and contributes to excessive legislation of not only one's -own- freedoms, but the freedoms of everyone else in the community.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I'd agree that "self centered behavior" is "boorish and rude". What's more self centered than applying your personal standards of decorum and thinking anything outside of them inappropriate?