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the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 5:29:24 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		In another thread I came across the concept that the experienced submissive was somehow viewed as damaged goods. The idea seemed to be that a sub with a certain amount of experience must be a failure at relationships.

Experience in a dominant is highly valued; experience in a submissive is not.

Thoughts?

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 5:44:34 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		I think experience is interesting and a knowledge of oneself is attractive...i think confidence is an asset... There must be lots of Doms who value this in a sub too...

An inexperienced sub might be nice to 'teach' and 'break in' so to speak for a Dom but getting to know eachother is exciting anyway...

And yes i think the most difficult of being is an in-experienced Dom... but even that has its attractions

(in reply to daintydimples)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 5:46:14 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		experienced in what? if a dom is experienced with a whip but not in relationships , does that make him better than a sub that is experienced in relationships and but not in whips? it's all too controversial to worry my pretty little head over.

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:05:38 AM   
wingerzzz


Posts: 3
Joined: 5/27/2009
Status: offline 		It is a gray area because of natural human behavior.

Many men throughout time seek out the “less experienced” female as a preference. Some with issues can judge harshly and be obsessed about it. Some women and for that matter male submissives come with their experience and judge it the right way or want a good experience duplicated often rendering the dominant as an object more then a unique person.

Experience for a dominant to me is valued but it also depends on the type of experience. To me experience of having some relationships of significant time can show the actual desire and passion to want power exchange relationship and not be just another this sounds cool or it is at least something different from a perpetually scared of boredom person.

But experience in how we use it in this life is just absurd. A person who is all play in local community and has had no power exchange relationship has no experience if they are looking for a 24/7 M/s relationship. But the odds are some of them will yell experience from the roof top and claim themselves better dominants then most because of it.

I am with daddysliloneds, I will look to find the right one for me and leave the people who obsess on experience either way to do the same for themselves.


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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:06:26 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

I think experience is interesting and a knowledge of oneself is attractive...i think confidence is an asset... There must be lots of Doms who value this in a sub too...

An inexperienced sub might be nice to 'teach' and 'break in' so to speak for a Dom but getting to know eachother is exciting anyway...

And yes i think the most difficult of being is an in-experienced Dom... but even that has its attractions


Having no experience as a dominant is almost as difficult as having no job experience. It takes along time to find someone willing to give you a chance.

You would think that experience, knowledge, and self-confidence would be valued in a submissive. Yet many dominants seem to prefer a blank canvas, so to speak. I guess I'm wondering why? Why is that so much more attractive?



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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:10:47 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		[/quote]<snip>...You would think that experience, knowledge, and self-confidence would be valued in a submissive. Yet many dominants seem to prefer a blank canvas, so to speak. I guess I'm wondering why? Why is that so much more attractive?[/quote]

they're less work because they're naive.

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:35:05 AM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples
Experience in a dominant is highly valued; experience in a submissive is not.

Thoughts?




Hello daintydimples. This dom likes experienced subs who like experienced doms. Cuts down a lot of the bullshit. RL.

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 7:46:17 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.

So often... people of Experience... be they Submissive or Dominant seem to lose their ability (desire) to learn and do things differently as they had done them in the past. But... a person of experience who never loses their ability to learn and apply what they learn... well... it a beautiful thing!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 7/12/2009 7:48:25 AM >

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 8:00:46 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.

I agree, but I would cast a different spin on "learning."  Did the person become more mature, more considerate, more willing to go for it, from past experiences?  Or did that person become more petulant, more selfish, more jaded and unwilling to risk?  That's what matters to me. 

Younger people -- and since I'm a straight male, I'll say younger women -- are often more idealistic, more open, and frankly just HAPPIER and more fun to talk to.  However, a more seasoned woman who is enthusiastic about life will capture my attention, that is for sure.


_____________________________

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(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 8:03:15 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

You would think that experience, knowledge, and self-confidence would be valued in a submissive. Yet many dominants seem to prefer a blank canvas, so to speak. I guess I'm wondering why? Why is that so much more attractive?



There are a couple of reasons it may be attractive to a Dom. First of all a less confident Dom - I'll even go out on a limb here and say a wannabe - has less chance of being found out that he's not all that. A sub with experience will know the difference and balk at serving someone who isn't what they are supposed to be.

Secondly, a selfish Dom who is only out for himself would find it easier to have things that way with someone who doesn't know any better. A less experienced sub is easier prey for the Dom who wants prey.

Thirdly, this happens in vanilla too, a man can view a woman with more sexual experience (I'm not saying D/s and sex always go hand in hand but it's more often the case than not) as being a slut/whore. She might *gasp* have had a better lover at one time, or maybe even seen a bigger pee pee. He may know he doesn't measure up in some ways in bed and it's easier to hide that with someone less experienced.

People generally seek out their match in a partner. If someone is specifically looking for 'less' of anything it's because they have a corresponding lack of something themselves. Having said that I'll also agree with KOM and RedMagic and say that what a Dom may be asking for when he says less experience is less baggage and a more open mind and attitude. It is absolutely true at times that experience can equal an attitude set in stone- which isn't attractive in any subject much less D/s which is interpersonal and therefore should have a willingness on both sides to work with the other person.

< Message edited by lizi -- 7/12/2009 8:09:37 AM >

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 8:09:32 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.



I agree, as it's what I find the least appealing about "older" dominant men (by older I don't mean older than me. The mental pertrification process, if it's going to happen, typically takes its first tight grip on men in their early 40s). They associate the word "experience" with themselves but that word is often just windowdressing for plain old mental rigidity. Some people's minds become set in amber and can no longer move fluidly. I find that the absolute opposite of sexy. People with less experience will sometimes make mistakes, even bad mistakes, but to me, a person who stops learning has made the biggest mistake of all.

Don't feel bad about this, DaintyDimples. Idiots who make shallow asssments of others based only upon their subjective generalizations about a word like "experience" and not on how the individiual wears their experience are exactly that... idiots, that you'd probably be miserable with one were you to hook up. Be happy when someone like that DQ's you on something this superficial, that's one less bozo you have to tell to get out of your inbox...or out of your life. Also, haven't you noticed that there are plenty of people who do not engage in this particular stupidity? No they're not in the majority, but exceptional people never are.

Hmm, all this talk of stiffness and pertification is making me think of the one thing which, when rigid, I can find absolutely no fault in. How distracting! :/

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 9:22:41 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		There are damaged goods among both the experienced and non-experienced on either side.

Often what is seen as damaged goods are people that are bitter, lack confidence in themselves and others, have allowed others to get too close too fast and been burned by the experience. Some are truly damaged material. Allowing people in too fast or too slow is a sign of trouble for me. There is a broad range for "normal" here. I am not a "fixer". Through a generally good understanding of myself and others I don't feel that I am in danger of misunderstanding which I am dealing with, truly damaged or disenchanted, though neither is particularly attractive to me.

I personally prefer an experienced submissive that has the clarity to understand that not all situations are the same. That not all dominants are the same. That lessons will be learned in life and not all of them are pleasant. That taking personal responsibility in their life decisions, including relationships, is a must to emotional growth. I look for optimism. Those that get truly damaged through life are not desirable and usually are pessimistic concerning, relationships if not all of life. A complete turn-off if nothing else.

Dolf

*** Fixer- Someone that doesn't make someone take personal responsibility for their lives. They may enable others to be dependent in an unhealthy manner on them.

EDITED- For spelling

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 7/12/2009 9:27:38 AM >

(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 9:42:37 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.

So often... people of Experience... be they Submissive or Dominant seem to lose their ability (desire) to learn and do things differently as they had done them in the past. But... a person of experience who never loses their ability to learn and apply what they learn... well... it a beautiful thing!


It is very beautiful, and in my experience, rare.

I am such a fake dominant because I am not like MistressHardAss.........

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/12/2009 9:43:47 AM >

_____________________________

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 11:41:34 AM   
SnareMage85


Posts: 25
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		I don't know, I've mixed feelings on this.

On one hand, an inexperienced submissive is a new challenge as they'd have no knowledge of what the expect there's the subconcious thrill of being their first Dom, being the one to find their limits, and push them, and they haven't ever been in a relationship along such lines so there's less likely they've had a bad D/s or M/s relationship.  Where as an experienced sub has stronger limits and more tolerance, but they likely have more that is "off-limits" because they've been through it before, and absolutely loathed it.

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People are stupid. They will believe anything they want, or fear, to be true.

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 11:50:50 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.

So often... people of Experience... be they Submissive or Dominant seem to lose their ability (desire) to learn and do things differently as they had done them in the past. But... a person of experience who never loses their ability to learn and apply what they learn... well... it a beautiful thing!


It is So Rare that KoM and I agree on much of Anything that I felt the need to repeat what he has said to have it resonate once more.

In My Experience what many experienced subs HEAR is that the Dom wants someone less experienced, when in reality they are being told the Dom wants someone who is willing to LEARN what the Dominant wants.

I have been accused of wanting an experienced sub because of my desire to have a sub understand that whatever training they have may not actually apply to me.

You see I don't want what your LAST Dom wanted I want what I want. It is going to take some time to learn, and offten when I run into a sub who has a considerable amount of experience I see two types of behavior, they completely get the idea that they need to learn me to learn what I want or they think they have to do all the things they learned for the Last Master because that is what makes a GOOD slave and the ignore tha fact that I may or may not want it done that way.

I am an Odd Duck, I have things I care very much about that many people don't and there are things I could give a shit about that many Dom's feel is Mandatory.

Steel

_____________________________

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
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Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 12:05:45 PM   
justme1980


Posts: 169
Joined: 6/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

In another thread I came across the concept that the experienced submissive was somehow viewed as damaged goods. The idea seemed to be that a sub with a certain amount of experience must be a failure at relationships.

Experience in a dominant is highly valued; experience in a submissive is not.

Thoughts?



Experienced damaged goods?? No it was more like she knew how to spot a fake, a wanabee or a bullshit artist. And of course this person who made the comment about the failure of the relationshp was there and is qualfied to make that type of analysis? Damaged my ass

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 12:42:07 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Idiots who make shallow asssments of others based only upon their subjective generalizations about a word like "experience" and not on how the individiual wears their experience are exactly that... idiots, that you'd probably be miserable with one were you to hook up. Be happy when someone like that DQ's you on something this superficial, that's one less bozo you have to tell to get out of your inbox...or out of your life. Also, haven't you noticed that there are plenty of people who do not engage in this particular stupidity? No they're not in the majority, but exceptional people never are.
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

I guess that's what gets to me, the shallow assessments and snap assumptions. And you are correct, it is one more easy tool for weeding out the wheat from the chafe on the many messages I receive.






(in reply to CaringandReal)
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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 1:18:07 PM   
xiam


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		Every relationship is different.  Unless you're a teenager, i wouldn't imagine knowing your girl had dated someone before you to be any sort of detriment.  Why does it suddenly become a detriment when BDSM is added to the mix?  It's still a relationship, it's still a new relationship and it still has all the learning and exploration that comes with that.

Experience-wise, i probably have more than my Master, but i have also done so many new and different things with him that i had never even dreamed of in the past.

When people use the word "experienced" as a negative, maybe what they really mean is "jaded".  They are not mutually exclusive.  I've been through a hell of a lot, but am not even close to being jaded.  Other people i meet, who have been more or less sheltered all their lives, are the most cynical, jaded folks one would ever have the misfortune of encountering.  It comes down to the individual.  Making blanket assumptions in either direction can cause one to miss out on some pretty wonderful experiences. 

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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:06:43 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It's not the inexperience or experience that is an issue....... It is the lack of ability/ willingness to learn that is the issue.

So often... people of Experience... be they Submissive or Dominant seem to lose their ability (desire) to learn and do things differently as they had done them in the past. But... a person of experience who never loses their ability to learn and apply what they learn... well... it a beautiful thing!

I don't experience that 'experience' accumulates. Techniques accumulate.
What I mean by this is that 'things' I can do improve. This is as true for driving a car, riding a horse or using a strap on for example.
But each and everytime I experience 'being', as opposed to having, even if it's with the same person, it's an entirely new experience IF I ALLOW IT TO BE.
I started another thread which was on boredom. If I allow myself to think been here before, seen this, wrote the book etc then of course there's a negative experience going to ensue.
But for the majority of time, especially in my experience of pire sensations, it's as if it's experienced for the first time. My abilty to experience something as iif for the first time can marred by:
flashbacks
expectations
unresolved communication
and what I call end-game (my way of experiencing being out of the eperience)
Actually there is a balancing act between experiencing something as of for the first time and experiencing it according to how it went before.
It's so late it's very early in the morning here. Hope this makes sense.



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RE: the experienced submissive - 7/12/2009 6:25:20 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

You would think that experience, knowledge, and self-confidence would be valued in a submissive. Yet many dominants seem to prefer a blank canvas, so to speak. I guess I'm wondering why? Why is that so much more attractive?



Wow, and here I had a hard time finding a Dominant that would take on an inexperienced sub.  Isn't it purely a personal thing?

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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