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Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 10:36:03 AM   
oneDsCOUPLE


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline 		Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 11:26:04 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme


  A sub having his own opinions?!  And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.

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(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 11:42:35 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Each relationship is different. I allow my sub to have his own thoughts and opinions. They do not always coincide with my own. But without those he would not be who he is as a person, so no I do not take those from him. Frankly a sub without thoughts or opinions would be very boring to me as I do like a lively debate every so often.

As to whether he is a sub vs a slave, he told me he feels that he is a sub but COULD be a slave in time. I leave that up to him to discover as I only require obedience, truthfulness and integrity regardless of the label. I think as you speak to people you will find that the line between sub and slave can sometimes be very very thin.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 11:43:13 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Could you give an example of an opinion he has that you want to change?  And could you also explain what you would like to change it into?

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 12:14:20 PM   
oneDsCOUPLE


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Could you give an example of an opinion he has that you want to change?  And could you also explain what you would like to change it into?



I meant just general opinions when we argue about little not so important things. When it is something really important we can find a way to discuss it without problems.

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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 12:15:24 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		When was the last time this happened?  What was the argument about?

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 12:19:45 PM   
oneDsCOUPLE


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Each relationship is different. I allow my sub to have his own thoughts and opinions. They do not always coincide with my own. But without those he would not be who he is as a person, so no I do not take those from him. Frankly a sub without thoughts or opinions would be very boring to me as I do like a lively debate every so often.

As to whether he is a sub vs a slave, he told me he feels that he is a sub but COULD be a slave in time. I leave that up to him to discover as I only require obedience, truthfulness and integrity regardless of the label. I think as you speak to people you will find that the line between sub and slave can sometimes be very very thin.

~Lashra



Thanks, i agree with your response and i feel pretty much the same way as you. Domme

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 1:26:53 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		What you are asking here is really two different things.  There is can your sub have an opinion and will your sub obey.

Personally, I don't want some mindless twit who does nothing but say 'Yes Mistress' all day, who never has an independent thought or feeling.  I think My boy's opinions have value.  I do not subscribe to the notion that I know everything and never need input from anyone.

Still, after receiving that input, when I have made My final decision, it is time for obedience.  If no new information can be brought to My attention, it is time for the boy to accept, obey, and submit.


_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/13/2009 2:48:56 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline 		I agree with Lashra and LadyPact.  Sir allows me my own opinions, He doesn't want a mindless robot for a sub.  He said if I were, He would grow very bored with me in short order.  Yet ultimately He demands and expects obedience from me.  We both like it that way.

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Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/14/2009 4:57:53 AM   
LadyLou


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		 


Me personally, I value and respect my subs opinions, he is one of the very few people on this planet whose opinion I hold in the utmost regard. I would hate for him not to have his own opinion. The way I look at it, if I wanted an automon, I could buy a robot – far less hassle than a whole homosapien. But, me and my sub have a very deep running compatibility and very rarely disagree on anything even remotely significant. That's the key though, compatibility.


But I suspect you might be talking more about will? The times when me and my sub have differing opinions, we discuss them. I try to understand his opinions and acknowledge them and thus acknowledge his opinions as valid. But ultimately, we are in a power based relationship, and when those differing opinions have required action, I ultimately decide what that is. He may not agree, but defers to my authority and will.


But, I feel it's the acknowledgement, empathetically and practically, of the other persons opinion that is particularly crucial in such a situation. Imo, it's rather naïve to try and change a persons opinion, nor would I personally be so presumptuous as to try. But this is just me, you may well find you work completely differently. I know of some situations that work completely opposite to mine.


If you are both still figuring things out and just starting your D/s journey together, perhaps you might find it helpful if you start to assess what you want from the relationship. What has prompted the hypothetical possibility that you may need to put “pressure” on him? Do you want a sub or a slave? How do you personally differentiate the two? There really is no rule book or one way of doing things, and the terms you'll see thrown about in the 'lifestyle' are really not much more than the vaguest of indicators as to a persons persuasion or situation. Each situation will be different. If you try to measure your relationship by the perception of some D/s rulebook, you'll end up mightily confused. Start from what you want, and filter it down from there. Good luck.

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 12:24:10 AM   
LAgirlsub


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme


  A sub having his own opinions?!  And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.


dreamerdreaming - you are kidding right?

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 6:48:13 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I am usually interested in what those who serve me have to say. Many times, I will find that another person will have an insight into something that I didn't have, and it is often valuable to explore those, even if I end up not agreeing in the end. The thing, for me, that makes authority-exchange what it is revolves around where the final decision lies. I encourage my servants to bring their opinions and concerns to me. Sure, there are times when they are protocol-bound to silence, or when I let them know that it isn't an appropriate time to express opinions, but even then, I make sure there is an opportunity either before or after for a servant to express thoughts and concerns... however, when the egg hits the pan, I am the one who makes the final decision about how (or if) an opinion will affect the situation at hand.

I think it is unrealistic to expect that another human being is going to perfectly mirror my own opinions or ideas -- but when it comes down to it, regardless of opinions expressed, I am the one who makes the decision. My servant wouldn't need to -change- hir opinion in order for me to act in the manner I see fit... xhe just needs to obey when the decision is made, whether hir opinion coincides or not. Oh, and once I say the time for discussion is -over-, it is -over-, and I feel perfectly within my rights to say "You've said your peace, and now I don't want to hear about this from you again."

Dame Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to LAgirlsub)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 8:49:11 AM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ?


He'll have his own opinions, no matter what you do, but you can tailor his way of thinking to some degree. This will all depend upon the level of seriousness you both give to your dominance and his submission. Having a preexisting structure of a traditional relationship can make mental conditioning and obedience training more challenging; there is often much to unlearn before you both enter into a completely different way of life, and the challenges are more in the day to day way of life than extended "scenes" that feed the fantasist's need for a fix.

Establish a core ethos that is solid and agreed upon. From this structure is reified into something meaningful and effective. Over time, force can gradually be increased and power shifted without cracking the foundation. Good luck.

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 10:09:05 AM   
vasha


Posts: 99
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

  A sub having his own opinions?!  And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.


*snort*   glat i wasnt takeing a drink when i read this... ild have spewed hot coffie all over.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 10:36:04 AM   
AngelicaGoddess


Posts: 61
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

  A sub having his own opinions?!  And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.


*snort*   glat i wasnt takeing a drink when i read this... ild have spewed hot coffie all over.



I'm not sure if this is comedy or if anybody would actually "really" think that, and possibly fool him or herself into believing it... Now that would be funny in a sort of scary way, straight jacket jokes anybody?

(in reply to vasha)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 10:58:58 AM   
vasha


Posts: 99
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure if this is comedy or if anybody would actually "really" think that, and possibly fool him or herself into believing it... Now that would be funny in a sort of scary way, straight jacket jokes anybody?

hehe... floppy sleeves-     size medium please.  maybe large, depending. 


*Sanity is highly overrated!*
 
 


< Message edited by vasha -- 7/16/2009 11:00:43 AM >

(in reply to AngelicaGoddess)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 11:12:34 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I can only echo what LadyPact has said, but also agree with Marc's posting.

Over time, especially those of us with strong opinions, good debating skills, and strong personalities, combined with amazingly good methods of persuasion............have found that you can change a person's opinions to more closely match your own.

I used to share my life with an uptight, republican, catholic, type A, opinionated, tantrum throwing, poor money managing, hard partying............you get the picture.... guy.

20 years later, the same guy is around, but he is tighter with money than I am, asks if I have any hot female prospects for myself (not him, we don't like the same types) on a regular basis, totally rejects all organised religioun, hasn't thrown a serious tantrum in over a decade, more open minded and relaxed, wouldn't have voted the republican ticket if you paid him, rarely goes out ......kinda guy.

Still basically the same person, just different for having known me. It's natural really. One of the most wonderful things about relationships of all kinds. We enhance one another's lives in all sorts of ways.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 11:17:50 AM   
AngelicaGoddess


Posts: 61
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vasha

quote:

I'm not sure if this is comedy or if anybody would actually "really" think that, and possibly fool him or herself into believing it... Now that would be funny in a sort of scary way, straight jacket jokes anybody?

hehe... floppy sleeves-     size medium please.  maybe large, depending. 


*Sanity is highly overrated!*
 
 



I wasn't clear, I meant the original post about the total control and controlling somebody's thoughts, makes me always wonder if the people who claim they do that are mind readers. I prefer my subs with their own thoughts, actually a brain and able to give me feedback, not robots I programmed.... How boring.

(in reply to vasha)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 11:58:16 AM   
vasha


Posts: 99
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AngelicaGoddess


I wasn't clear, I meant the original post about the total control and controlling somebody's thoughts, makes me always wonder if the people who claim they do that are mind readers. I prefer my subs with their own thoughts, actually a brain and able to give me feedback, not robots I programmed.... How boring.



oops... and here i was tongue in cheek.  applogies. 
my Owner feels the same or simular way really.  spunk (no, not the sexual kind) and spark entertain Her, if nothing else.  just the same i do try to know when not to push it.  She is the one in charge... always.  and i like it that way.

< Message edited by vasha -- 7/16/2009 12:00:42 PM >

(in reply to AngelicaGoddess)
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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 1:31:56 PM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Oops, mistakenly posted under Otter. Please see below.
Sthrn :)


< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 7/16/2009 1:33:53 PM >

(in reply to vasha)
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