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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 1:34:50 PM

SthrnCom4t

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
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OneDsCouple - congratulations on choosing to undertake such a fabulous journey. I will echo the above sentiments about not wanting a robot. Having a submissive who is active in his pursuit of pleasing you is priceless! (and a lot less work in the long run). Understanding what you each bring to the relationship, and the needs you both have, will serve you well. You can not have enough communication in these areas. How you communicate will either enhance or hurt your dynamic.

Since you've been in a relationship for a while, you have a strong foundation. Use this to your advantage. Go slow. Maybe start with a weekend of power exchange. See how that goes, and discuss and process after the fact. Discuss what worked and what didn't for both of you. Leaving your ego at the door will allow each of you to be honest. Remember, you are both learning, and are teammates striving for a common goal. You each have something the other wants.

You would like to lead, and he would like to follow, however, this can be very difficult, especially since you've probably been in an egaletarian (equal) relationship.

Tasks and a style of communication which enhance the particular power exchange dynamic you want to create is the key.

There are several books for new Fem Doms, the titles of which are presently escaping me.

I'd love to share more and welcome you to email me off list.

_____________________________

Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim

'The sign of a developed mind is one in which two opposing ideas can coexist' - Oscar Wilde.

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 21

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/16/2009 3:47:54 PM

houseboy001

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

As a 'sub' i will always possess a 'free will' and my thoughts will always be my own. This should not be confused with being obedient and creative when in the service of a Mistress.

The opinion of the Mistress should be honored but that doesn't mean that they must be believed as 'gospel'. After all that is why we have choices. The first choice howev,er was to serve in the capacity set forth by the Mistress. Do Her 'bidding' as She sets forth without hesitation and to the best of a servant's ability. To vow to make Her life easier and more carefree. To understand the position chosen as a submissive.

On the other hand we all have a free will and that cannot be taken away. It is always best to smiole do as you are told and keep the free will to one's self.

(in reply to SthrnCom4t)

Post #: 22

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 5:22:46 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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I prefer somebody who submits from strength instead of giving up his/her will, big difference in my book.

A bit like "I will do this, she is worth it, it brings her joy and that is what I want to do" instead of "Must follow orders, I'm nothing, I'm only allowed to be what she lets me be!"

Difference between a proud submissive and a doormat, my interest in doormats is rather limited.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to houseboy001)

Post #: 23

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 5:44:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

You can't force someone to change their thoughts. In fact, by attempting to you are less likely to have any effect on him.
You can model better behavior, you can express when you dislike his behavior and which behaviors cause a wedge in the relationship instead of bringing you closer, but you can't force him.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 24

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 5:50:16 AM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I prefer somebody who submits from strength instead of giving up his/her will, big difference in my book.

A bit like "I will do this, she is worth it, it brings her joy and that is what I want to do" instead of "Must follow orders, I'm nothing, I'm only allowed to be what she lets me be!"

Difference between a proud submissive and a doormat, my interest in doormats is rather limited.

Totally agree with this, why would I want to top some whiny, pathetic thing, when I can top a strong, worthy Person? Trust me, I get MUCH more out of bringing a strong, tuff, manly MAN, to tears, then someone who's allready a whiney little bitch.

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Post #: 25

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 5:59:17 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I prefer somebody who submits from strength instead of giving up his/her will, big difference in my book.

A bit like "I will do this, she is worth it, it brings her joy and that is what I want to do" instead of "Must follow orders, I'm nothing, I'm only allowed to be what she lets me be!"

Difference between a proud submissive and a doormat, my interest in doormats is rather limited.

I always thought you'd be that sort of dominant, LadyC. I'd recognise that instantly. Indeed, if I were to see you the other side of a pub bar, I'd bellow out "MISTRESS!" and be right there on the floor kissing your feet.

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(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 26

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 7:12:29 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
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Peon, nowt wrong with living dangerously, but he kink of "I want to be kicked to death on the floor of a pub while she pours her glass of wine over me and tries to put her stiletto heel into my eye socket" is possibly taking it a bit too far....

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 27

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/17/2009 8:28:55 AM

PeonForHer

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I don't care. It'll be worth the trip to Casualty. I'll have a cameraman on hand and I'll do it when you least expect it. The video of your reaction will be just priceless.

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Post #: 28

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/18/2009 6:48:39 PM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
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It's natural for people to affect one another. This is especially true in intimate relationships. God help me if I haven't influenced my children to think and behave in certain ways.

In D/s, the ideal is made explicit, that the Dominant--theoretically superior in some way--will have a positive influence on the submissive. (In fact, in a good relationship, the submissive has a positive influence on the Dominant as well, not that any Dominants here have any less than excellent relationships or need improving, of course.)

Here is one way that it plays out in my relationship with my submissive. He is from a European country that has been radically altered by an influx of emigres from Asian and African countries. He is, in a lot of ways, very racist.

Now, we both enjoy movies and music very much. Naturally, I have been using my supervote as a Dominant to choose our entertainment. I deliberately select movies and music produced by people from the cultures that he has such trouble with. Guess what? Over time, his prejudices have become tempered. And we both get to watch and hear some of the best material coming out of Asia and Africa.

So yeah, your sub will have opinions of his own. And you get to influence them as you like. Have fun with that!

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)

Post #: 29

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/18/2009 7:10:14 PM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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"Supervote". That makes me laugh. ;-) Yes, 'she' gets to have the 'supervote'.

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Post #: 30

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/19/2009 11:35:37 AM

TexasMaam

Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline

My sub is first and foremost My friend and confidant. I value his opinions, and even when our horns lock, (and we have quite a few head butting contests), I value and appreciate his opinions, especially in areas where his expertise is unquestionable.

However, whenever push comes to shove, and whenever it is important to Me that he back down and do it My way, no matter what the context might be, it is imperative that he do so - or it's a deal breaker.

No easy task with two very strong, highly opinionated people.

So far, so good!

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 7/19/2009 11:39:57 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/19/2009 2:51:14 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LAgirlsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme

A sub having his own opinions?! And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.

dreamerdreaming - you are kidding right?

Oh hey- yeah I was kidding!

Vasha got it...

I guess I just couldn't give the OP a serious answer right then. I agree with everyone else who says: WTF? You can't actually change your slave's thoughts, only they can do that, and only if they want to- as with the rest of their submission.

I value my slave for all his thoughts and opinions. Not just those that match my own. If all his opinions were exactly the same as mine, how boring would that be?!

As to whether the sub in question wants to be sub or slave: If I were him I wouldn't want to be either one, to a dom like the OP. Someone who cannot allow opinions different than their own is a very insecure, inflexible person, IMHO. Not someone I'd want to put in a position of authority over me.

At least its a good sign that she's posted here. That's a start.

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(in reply to LAgirlsub)

Post #: 32

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/19/2009 4:21:02 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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What I can't get my head around is how it could ever work to control a sub's mind given the way (I think) subs' minds generally operate. Certainly the way mine operates, anyway.

This depends upon there being two sides to the sub's mind. Side B is being dominated. It's side A, though, that looks at side B and enjoys
control over side B. If side A gets dominated along with side B, then there's nothing to do the enjoying. You don't have a sub who wants to be dominated anymore, because the thing that does the 'wanting' has been wiped. It can't work in theory, never mind in practice.

Er . . . if that makes sense . . .

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(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 33

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/19/2009 8:18:09 PM

Scotty306134

Posts: 172
Joined: 5/16/2004
Status: offline

I've had the pleasure of living with and serving three Mistresses so far in my journey. All have valued and given weight to my opinions especially in my areas of expertise, but the final decision is theirs to make. That is the way it should be. Scotty

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 34

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/19/2009 9:19:15 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme

I took a quick look at your profile and noticed that you are only 18, and your partner is 24. That's pretty young and to be honest, your partner who is the sub/slave/bottom of the relationship has a bit more life experience than you do and his opinion might have some value. While I don't mean this in an insulting way, you were together two years ago in a vanilla relationship while you were 16 and he was 22, which is a bit, ummm, inappropriate (at least here in the states). In any case, the big question is why would you not want him to have his own opinions? If you want someone who has no thoughts or opinions of their own, why not just get a blow up doll?

Really though, you are both quite young and you need to find the way that works for you both. There is no rule book and no right or wrong way of doing things. It may be just a language barrier thing since I see you are from Spain, but really trying to "pressure" your partner into giving up his thoughts and opinions will end badly. Further, why did the relationship end two years ago? What has changed (other than you becoming a legal adult) that makes you think the relationship will work now? D/s aside, a relationship is still a relationship and whatever caused the failure in the past will likely cause it to fail again.

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)

Post #: 35

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/20/2009 7:37:23 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I always thought you'd be that sort of dominant, LadyC. I'd recognise that instantly. Indeed, if I were to see you the other side of a pub bar, I'd bellow out "MISTRESS!" and be right there on the floor kissing your feet.

Ahhhh... now I'm just getting jealous.

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It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
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Post #: 36

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/20/2009 7:41:35 AM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

A sub having his own opinions?! And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.

Greetings Mistress,

I'm afraid I never read the rule book, but I agree fully with the bold part of your post. That's how it works in the relationship I kept in. Only the immediate doesn't seem right, because it does take time, a lot of lessons and explanation to learn to adapt Master's opinions as my own.

I wish you well,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/20/2009 7:47:12 AM >

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Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

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Post #: 37

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/20/2009 3:06:35 PM

sexylilcouple

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/16/2008
Status: offline

edit

(in reply to ishyB)

Post #: 38

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/20/2009 4:17:10 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

What I can't get my head around is how it could ever work to control a sub's mind given the way (I think) subs' minds generally operate. Certainly the way mine operates, anyway.

This depends upon there being two sides to the sub's mind. Side B is being dominated. It's side A, though, that looks at side B and enjoys
control over side B. If side A gets dominated along with side B, then there's nothing to do the enjoying. You don't have a sub who wants to be dominated anymore, because the thing that does the 'wanting' has been wiped. It can't work in theory, never mind in practice.

Er . . . if that makes sense . . .

A wise man once mentioned something about over thinking everything.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 39

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/20/2009 6:25:07 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

A sub having his own opinions?! And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.

Greetings Mistress,

I'm afraid I never read the rule book, but I agree fully with the bold part of your post. That's how it works in the relationship I kept in. Only the immediate doesn't seem right, because it does take time, a lot of lessons and explanation to learn to adapt Master's opinions as my own.

I wish you well,

ishy

Apparently you missed the follow up post?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

Oh hey- yeah I was kidding!

Vasha got it...

I guess I just couldn't give the OP a serious answer right then. I agree with everyone else who says: WTF? You can't actually change your slave's thoughts, only they can do that, and only if they want to- as with the rest of their submission.

I value my slave for all his thoughts and opinions. Not just those that match my own. If all his opinions were exactly the same as mine, how boring would that be?!

As to whether the sub in question wants to be sub or slave: If I were him I wouldn't want to be either one, to a dom like the OP. Someone who cannot allow opinions different than their own is a very insecure, inflexible person, IMHO. Not someone I'd want to put in a position of authority over me.

At least its a good sign that she's posted here. That's a start.

I would think for a great majority of people, the idea of not having an original thought of their own borders on the ridiculous and actually LESSONS their value, it doesn't enhance it. But I guess if yours wants nothing more than someone who is their mirror, then you are in great shape. Of course, God forbid he gets bored having someone verbally regurgitatge his opinions and thoughts back to him, he may take those thoughts and opinions with him. Then again, you will be a "blank slate" without thoughts of your own ready for the next master who needs someone to think just like them. Good luck with that.

(in reply to ishyB)

Post #: 40

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