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RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 9:18:46 AM

LPslittleclip

Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
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as my M'Lady said She likes a sub with opinions and a mind of their own. i honestly don't know of anyone who wants a doormat, at least not all the time(some like trampling). the relationship is based on the interactions of the dynamic each of the persons involved will be changed in small ways but by choice not force. now how the opinions are presented is another matter must be respectfull in doing so.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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Post #: 41

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 12:05:18 PM

LdyyR

Posts: 160
Joined: 11/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I prefer somebody who submits from strength instead of giving up his/her will, big difference in my book.

A bit like "I will do this, she is worth it, it brings her joy and that is what I want to do" instead of "Must follow orders, I'm nothing, I'm only allowed to be what she lets me be!"

Difference between a proud submissive and a doormat, my interest in doormats is rather limited.

Totally agree with this, why would I want to top some whiny, pathetic thing, when I can top a strong, worthy Person? Trust me, I get MUCH more out of bringing a strong, tuff, manly MAN, to tears, then someone who's allready a whiney little bitch.

Africkenmen. And yes, that's a word, look it up in Rosa's bicthionary.

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Post #: 42

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 12:47:34 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

A sub having his own opinions?! And thinking he can make his own decision about whether he is sub or slave?! Nope. That's just not done. Its in the D/s rule book, that we just don't do things that way. Did you skip over chapter one? It is clearly stated in there: Doms make all of the decisions for their subs, and tell them what opinions to have. The subs must be obedient, and be slaves if their doms say so. And they must immediately adopt any opinions that the doms want them to have. Heck, that's just common sense.

Greetings Mistress,

I'm afraid I never read the rule book, but I agree fully with the bold part of your post. That's how it works in the relationship I kept in. Only the immediate doesn't seem right, because it does take time, a lot of lessons and explanation to learn to adapt Master's opinions as my own.

I wish you well,

ishy

I would think for a great majority of people, the idea of not having an original thought of their own borders on the ridiculous and actually LESSONS their value, it doesn't enhance it. But I guess if yours wants nothing more than someone who is their mirror, then you are in great shape. Of course, God forbid he gets bored having someone verbally regurgitatge his opinions and thoughts back to him, he may take those thoughts and opinions with him. Then again, you will be a "blank slate" without thoughts of your own ready for the next master who needs someone to think just like them. Good luck with that.

Greetings Mistress,

I did see your follow up post, but I wanted to express that even though the first post wasn't serious, I still agree with it.

Also, the original post mentioned nothing about not having original ideas, it only spoke of the submissive adapting to the beliefs of their owner.

I definitely have my own original ideas, but when I have them, they are run by Master to see if it fits in with what he expects of me.
My goal is to please him completely and in all ways, what better way to do that than to addapt my thinking to him in such a way that it becomes impossible to even think unpleasing thoughts? If my opinion, my morals, my goals become a copy of his own, it will help me be exactly what he expects me to be. Orwellian thinking at its best...

However, like I said, this is not something that happens immediately, and it is not satisfactory for Master that I would simple parrot his ideas. Instead he demands of me that I make his ideas my own. It takes a lot of time an debate to do this; I question his ideas when I do not immediately agree with them and we talk about them and bounce them back and forward until I can see his reason and logic and addapt his ideas as my own. As for now, we have never come across an issue that I cannot accept in the way he wants me too. The whole reason why I wanted his collar in the first place is because I so admire the way he thinks.

As to him getting bored of me, I would agree with you on that if I was his partner. The thing is thought that I am not.
I am his slave, I don't fulfill a partner role in his life, that is what he has a Free Companion for -his wife-, my role is simple to please and obey, not to be his lover/partner/girlfriend nor the person he turns to for advice or new ideas.
I also doubt he will get bored of me because of this, because he likes both the special challenges that Mistress and I provide for him.
She is interesting and stimulating to him because she has her own mind and opinions and she can maintain a disagreement with him. She can provide a test for his ideas by countering them.
I am interesting and stimulating to him because of the challenge I present in 'taming' my ideas and making sure that they get made into what he wants them to be, the same way that it can proof to be stimulating to a person to create something out of clay, or to tame a wild horse to run a dressage course. I provide a test for his ideas based on how easy it is for me to assimilate them, and because he has to dissect them and test them himself to be able to teach them to me.

I also do not agree that being released would leave me a blank slate without thoughts of my own. First of all, I would still be filled with his ideas that I have made my own over the years and am thus living by. Being released wouldn't change the fact that I have internalized those to the point that they've become how I live and think.
Secondly, like said, the fact that I am to make his ideas my own doesn't mean that I never have my own ideas anymore, only that when I do, he bends them until they are to his liking. I am not allowed to maintain my disagreement with him on anything, but it's not enough to just pay lip-service to agreeing with him, I have to actually agree.
If I get released, my own ideas will be my own again, without him interfering with them as he does now.

I wish you well,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/21/2009 1:39:01 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

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Post #: 43

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 5:43:28 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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Good evening, ishyB. I perved your profile, and I really enjoyed your soundtrack, pictures and text. Seems like the dynamic you have is fulfilling for all three of you. Sweet!
But Your Kink Is Not My Kink. I'd rather have a root canal than to spend a bunch of time trying to convince my slaveboy over to thinking like I do. That's waaay too much work, and I don't have the patience for it, or the inclination. Its just not what my ownership is about, at all. His thoughts and feelings are valid, and well expressed. His intelligence and wisdom are not wasted on me.

Seems like you purposely chose an owner who you could learn a lot from, and so you value him for that (among other things)- good for you!

I very carefully chose a slave that I can learn a lot from, if I listen and consider his thoughts and feelings. Don't get me wrong- I'm very opinionated, and will try to persuade him to my point of view if I feel like it. Its just that I deeply respect and value his thoughts and perspective, and my slaveboy and I agree on most things anyway. Our D/s and vanilla needs, desires, thoughts, feelings, etc. were very closely aligned before we ever met. We fit well together, from the start. That's why I chose him.

Also: please don't confuse me with the fabulous LafayetteLady. I'm flattered, but really...

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Post #: 44

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 6:16:43 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
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Greetings Mistress,

I'm sorry I made it seem I confused you with Mistress LafayetteLady, I did realize I was replying to her, but I left a typo. 'I did see your follow up post', should have been 'I did see the follow up post'.

I also wish to apologize if I sounded like I meant to imply that I think Master's way is the right way. I do understand that other people can and will prefer other things. I just wanted to try and explain some of the reasons why some people might prefer it the way Master does, and how some slaves also feel good with that, because Mistress LafayetteLady seems to feel that no good can come from it.

Dynamics like mine do not always come forward out of insecurity on behalf of the owner, or lack of intelligence/mind on behalf of the slave. And yet, somehow most people always seem to assume that they do. I hope I've managed to illustrate that there are other reasons besides those why people might feel comfortable in a relationship like mine.

I wish you well,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/21/2009 6:17:09 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

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Post #: 45

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 7:52:54 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
Mistress LafayetteLady seems to feel that no good can come from it.

You are quite right, I don't think any good can come of it. You are not a lump of clay or a domesticated animal as you compared yourself to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
Dynamics like mine do not always come forward out of insecurity on behalf of the owner, or lack of intelligence/mind on behalf of the slave. And yet, somehow most people always seem to assume that they do. I hope I've managed to illustrate that there are other reasons besides those why people might feel comfortable in a relationship like mine.

I didn't say or imply that yours was insecure or that you lacked intelligence. However, since you brought it up....he has a wife who readily "maintains" her disagreement with him. He wants you to make his thoughts and opinions your own (thereby changing your thoughts and opinions to parrot his), almost as though doing so would give him the "edge" in the disagreements with his wife, whose opinions do not change just so she can please him, although she must be pleasing to him anyway, since he did marry her. What you describe is very much like what occurs in a cult environment. The members are "trained" to think like the leader. Since I do believe you are intelligent, think about the outcomes there. You say if and when you leave, your thoughts and opinions will be your own again without his interference. But by that time, you will no longer be able to think your own way, because he will have twisted all of your thoughts to either mirror or support his. Obviously, there must not have been any opinions where your thoughts were diametrically opposed to his. As an example, only because it is the easiest and obvious, he is an athiest and you have strong faith in God. Would you allow him to use his persuasive logic to make you stop believing? Then when it was over, would you be an athiest for life or would you restore your faith in God? It is one thing to change one's opinion about some things, but to accept having your core beliefs "bent" to another's liking is doing a disservice to yourself.

Before anyone says anything, remember the example was only because it was the simplest and most obvious example to use, not based on ishyBs relationship or anything else.

BTW, dreamerdreaming......thank you for the nice compliment. We all need to be told we are fabulous once in a while. Rough couple of weeks, so it was really nice to "hear"

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Post #: 46

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/21/2009 8:56:36 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I didn't say or imply that yours was insecure or that you lacked intelligence. However, since you brought it up....he has a wife who readily "maintains" her disagreement with him. He wants you to make his thoughts and opinions your own (thereby changing your thoughts and opinions to parrot his), almost as though doing so would give him the "edge" in the disagreements with his wife, whose opinions do not change just so she can please him,

Greetings Mistress,

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "almost as though doing so would give him the "edge" in the disagreements with his wife".
In arguments between them, my voice is irrelevant, my opinion never asked for, nor am I in any way allowed to get mixed in the argument.

The idea by itself that I could in anyway influence and argument between them is so shocking that I sat here stunned for a moment when I read it.
Such a thing would just never happen. I am there slave, I have no voice in their household. Regardless of how I would feel about the argument, me even just picking a side (even if it is his side) is enough to get me beat. They would sooner ask a stranger on the street how he felt about the whole thing then they would ask me.
It is simple none of my business, even if their disagreement should involve me.

quote:

What you describe is very much like what occurs in a cult environment. The members are "trained" to think like the leader. Since I do believe you are intelligent, think about the outcomes there. You say if and when you leave, your thoughts and opinions will be your own again without his interference. But by that time, you will no longer be able to think your own way, because he will have twisted all of your thoughts to either mirror or support his.

I am aware of this Mistress, and this argument has been used against me before.
I made the specific reference to Orwellian thinking because of it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwellian)
I am aware of cult used methods and how similar they often are compared to what is happening with me.

The only thing is this, I knew all this before I met him, and was fully aware of the fact that it would happen in my relationship with him. In fact, I want it to happen, like I said: being unable to even think thoughts that are displeasing to him is the best way to guaranty that I'll be no longer be able to be displeasing to him.

If I should get released, my thoughts and opinions will remain just as influence by him as they were under his ruling, but why would that be a problem?
It seems that the issue that you are having is that he might change me as a person, but I do not object to that. People change over time under the influence of all sort of things. Opinions we have are formed by all sorts of influences. I ACTIVELY chose my influence to be him, and my focus to be completely on him, so I don't mind if the process of that changes me. I would expect to be different after any relationship I'm in, regardless of its nature. I don't see how changing my way of thinking would make it no longer my own way of thinking. If it proofs to be that contrary to who I am after I'm released, I'll change from then on into a different direction.

quote:

As an example, only because it is the easiest and obvious, he is an atheist and you have strong faith in God. Would you allow him to use his persuasive logic to make you stop believing? Then when it was over, would you be an atheist for life or would you restore your faith in God?

Actually this is an apt example, though reversed.
Master and Mistress go to church regularly and are protestants. I was raised a non-practicing catholic and ended up seriously doubting the existence of God. At the most I believed there was 'something', but certainly not an entity 'God' as they do.
As their slave, I am expected to go to church and practice their beliefs. Neither of them demand of me that I belief on command, but the expectations is there that I am open to changing my beliefs, and actively try to find reason in support for their beliefs, instead of in support of my own feelings about the matter. So this is one of the very few examples where Master takes a pretty relaxed attitude and lets me figure out a lot on my own. But the expectation is still there that I move myself towards his ideas instead of away from that. Moving futher away from their beliefs would in no way be allowed. And even without the presure of him actively trying to change my way of thinking that is still the direction I naturally find myself preferring because of my own longing to make his ideas my own.

quote:

It is one thing to change one's opinion about some things, but to accept having your core beliefs "bent" to another's liking is doing a disservice to yourself.

I think this is what it's all about Mistress.
You see, I do not belief myself to have any 'core beliefs'.
I'm a chameleon of sorts, I addapt, I feel GOOD adapting, I always have, I'm happiest that way.
It's not that I don't have my own opinions or feelings about things, but just that none of them are really that important for me that I cannot let them go. I do not get the feeling that something of me is 'missing' if I addapt.
In fact, I feel extremely uncomfortable when the expectations is made that I hold on to something as it being 'mine' and am not allowed to addapt. Like I illustrated with your example, I feel much more comfortable adapting to their views than to try and make myself hold on to my own.
I've always been like this, so I went looking for an environment where it would be okay for me to addapt, instead of constantly being faced with the disappointment of other people from me not standing my ground.

You could say in a sense that my 'core belief' IS to addapt to those whose will is stronger then me, and that Master by allowing me to do such is valuing that core belief.
Him changing me is not taking something away from me, instead, it is adding so much beauty and value to my life.

I wish you well,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/21/2009 9:04:14 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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Post #: 47

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/22/2009 6:44:38 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "almost as though doing so would give him the "edge" in the disagreements with his wife".
In arguments between them, my voice is irrelevant, my opinion never asked for, nor am I in any way allowed to get mixed in the argument.

The idea by itself that I could in anyway influence and argument between them is so shocking that I sat here stunned for a moment when I read it.
Such a thing would just never happen. I am there slave, I have no voice in their household. Regardless of how I would feel about the argument, me even just picking a side (even if it is his side) is enough to get me beat. They would sooner ask a stranger on the street how he felt about the whole thing then they would ask me.
It is simple none of my business, even if their disagreement should involve me.

The edge you give him isn't one of a physical or "take his side" nature. The "edge" is providing him with the internal ability to justify his opinions more strongly because someone else (in this case you) holds the same opinion. Surely, you have heard the saying there is strength in numbers? Thos numbers do not have to be widely visible. They can simply be something that mentally strengthens his opion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
I am aware of this Mistress, and this argument has been used against me before.
I made the specific reference to Orwellian thinking because of it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwellian)
I am aware of cult used methods and how similar they often are compared to what is happening with me.

The only thing is this, I knew all this before I met him, and was fully aware of the fact that it would happen in my relationship with him. In fact, I want it to happen, like I said: being unable to even think thoughts that are displeasing to him is the best way to guaranty that I'll be no longer be able to be displeasing to him.

There is a good reason why people have suggested this to you before. You do realize that Orwell's point was to show how WRONG such a thing was, don't you? His writings were about showing that the inhibition of free thought was a bad thing. The fact that you wanted it to happen doesn't change it. People who enter into cults are seeking something that they think the cult will provide. They realize that the structure of the cult will change them, and like you were seeking it. Often because something has happened in their past that makes this "need" exist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
If I should get released, my thoughts and opinions will remain just as influence by him as they were under his ruling, but why would that be a problem?

Until you come across the next master, and adopt his thoughts and opinions. I'm sorry for you that you can not see this for what it is. Never being happy with your own thoughts, never feeling as though your thoughts are important enough to matter because you as an individual doesn't matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
Actually this is an apt example, though reversed.
Master and Mistress go to church regularly and are protestants. I was raised a non-practicing catholic and ended up seriously doubting the existence of God. At the most I believed there was 'something', but certainly not an entity 'God' as they do.
As their slave, I am expected to go to church and practice their beliefs. Neither of them demand of me that I belief on command, but the expectations is there that I am open to changing my beliefs, and actively try to find reason in support for their beliefs, instead of in support of my own feelings about the matter. So this is one of the very few examples where Master takes a pretty relaxed attitude and lets me figure out a lot on my own. But the expectation is still there that I move myself towards his ideas instead of away from that. Moving futher away from their beliefs would in no way be allowed. And even without the presure of him actively trying to change my way of thinking that is still the direction I naturally find myself preferring because of my own longing to make his ideas my own.

First you admit that you weren't sure what you actually believed in, so you aren't really changing a core belief. In this instance, you don't know what you believe, and so through exploration, you may or may not find what you believe in. It's pretty interesting to say that he isn't "pushing" you on this, and interesting to note that you don't say that you now believe in God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
I think this is what it's all about Mistress.
You see, I do not belief myself to have any 'core beliefs'.
I'm a chameleon of sorts, I addapt, I feel GOOD adapting, I always have, I'm happiest that way.
It's not that I don't have my own opinions or feelings about things, but just that none of them are really that important for me that I cannot let them go. I do not get the feeling that something of me is 'missing' if I addapt.
In fact, I feel extremely uncomfortable when the expectations is made that I hold on to something as it being 'mine' and am not allowed to addapt. Like I illustrated with your example, I feel much more comfortable adapting to their views than to try and make myself hold on to my own.
I've always been like this, so I went looking for an environment where it would be okay for me to addapt, instead of constantly being faced with the disappointment of other people from me not standing my ground.

You could say in a sense that my 'core belief' IS to addapt to those whose will is stronger then me, and that Master by allowing me to do such is valuing that core belief.
Him changing me is not taking something away from me, instead, it is adding so much beauty and value to my life.

I wish you well,

ishy

The above is really quite sad in my opinion. Your core belief is to not be an individual but to take on the thoughts and opinions of someone else because for whatever reason, you can't find value in the thoughts and opinions that you developed on your own.

Look, I can see that this is how you want to be and don't desire to change it, nor am I trying to convince you to. But you can certainly see from the messages on this post, that your way is somewhat rare. Each person lives their own way, each has their own "kink," and while you aren't the only one who sees this as being a good way to be, I think it can be very offputting and frightening to a "newbie" who is looking to learn and will mistake this as being the way it has to be, especially with all the whack ass "doms" that are messaging them and tellling them if they are subs/slaves, then they MUST do this or that, behave this way or that way. Most of us know that there is not really a right way or a wrong way of doing things, only our own individual way. Wouldn't you hate to think that some poor newbie who is more mainstream than you, but lacking in knowledge and experience would suppress his/her feelings because they knew they couldn't do what you are doing? The one thing that does come across about you is that you seem to be a very kind and warm person. I don't think you would want anyone to deny who they were because they misunderstood something.

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Post #: 48

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/22/2009 9:17:15 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The edge you give him isn't one of a physical or "take his side" nature. The "edge" is providing him with the internal ability to justify his opinions more strongly because someone else (in this case you) holds the same opinion. Surely, you have heard the saying there is strength in numbers? Thos numbers do not have to be widely visible. They can simply be something that mentally strengthens his opion.

Greetings Mistress,

He wouldn't take my opinion more into account then he would take into account that his dogs sits when he tells them too.
He is full aware that the reason I agree with his opinions is because he has molded me to belief them.
From the above, I'm afraid that I have to say that you have no understanding of the mindset that he keeps me in, or the way he views me. In their eyes, I really am nothing but a slave, in a most literal sense in regards to how they view me.
They don't see me as a person with rights, opinions, or ideas of any relevance at all. I'm not free, so I'm just not even considered in situations like that. It has nothing to do with strength in numbers, because Master simple does not view me as being the same class of human that he is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

There is a good reason why people have suggested this to you before. You do realize that Orwell's point was to show how WRONG such a thing was, don't you? His writings were about showing that the inhibition of free thought was a bad thing. The fact that you wanted it to happen doesn't change it. People who enter into cults are seeking something that they think the cult will provide. They realize that the structure of the cult will change them, and like you were seeking it. Often because something has happened in their past that makes this "need" exist.

I do realize that Orwell meant it to demonstrate he feels it is wrong Mistress. However I do not agree with the notion that it is wrong for everybody. We could go on to debate a whole number of things that used to be viewed as wrong for everybody.
I mean, everybody knows homosexuality is wrong right? Or women rights? Or that the existence of a strict class system is right? Or that racially based slavery is right? I never understood the concept of something being right because everybody else just happens to think that it is. Maybe that is why I have so much trouble making up my own ideas, I don't tend to accept that something is right just because our society tends to feel it is... I adapt and adjust to specific people and influences who have a very close impact on me, but I seem to be unable to adapt to the way society by large thinks, like everybody else seems to be doing.

I don't subscribe to the notion that just because our current society feels that the way Master keeps me is wrong, that means it actually is wrong.
However, I am also not suggesting that what I'm doing is necessarily right for anybody else but me. That is something that other people will have to determine for themselves.
I also dislike your suggestion that because I feel happy this way, that must mean that 'something happened to me' in a tone that suggest that that 'something' was by default something 'bad'. I noted before that we are all shaped by our environment and our past when it comes to the way that we process thought. Why is my manner of being influenced wrong, and my experiences in my past bad, while your way of being influenced right and your past good? What happened to you Mistress, to make you who you are today?

I could again bring up the point of how people used to think the same way about homosexuality and traumas in childhood.
I can assure you that I have had no traumas in my live that could provide a reasonable explanation of why I am the way I am.
And I resent the way you seem to imply that there is something 'wrong' with me.
I am perfectly happy and fulfilled the way I am, and I thought long and hard before making the decision to live like this.
Before I lived like this I was unhappy and unfulfilled; I do not understand why me now being happy and fulfilled would have to suggest that there is something 'wrong' with me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Until you come across the next master, and adopt his thoughts and opinions. I'm sorry for you that you can not see this for what it is. Never being happy with your own thoughts, never feeling as though your thoughts are important enough to matter because you as an individual doesn't matter.

I'm not unhappy with my thoughts and feelings, regardless of what experience they are shaped by.
Like I said, I chose that which influences my thoughts and feelings very carefully and deliberately; with much more care and thought then most people who just live their lives and let themselves be influences by random factors and society's opinion by large.
I don't have any self esteem issues; I didn't have them prior to meeting Master either.
I'm very happy with who I am and the way I chose my life to be. Not everything matters to all people, and I have other ways I express my individualism then just the way my thought patterns work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

First you admit that you weren't sure what you actually believed in, so you aren't really changing a core belief. In this instance, you don't know what you believe, and so through exploration, you may or may not find what you believe in. It's pretty interesting to say that he isn't "pushing" you on this, and interesting to note that you don't say that you now believe in God.

Actually, I do believe in God now, though I'm still working on how to place it all, I'm sorry, I should have made that clear in my prior post. Also, it is my understanding that the reason he doesn't push me on this has nothing to do with me as his slave, but with him, his codes, his beliefs and his religion. From what I understand about what he believes in regards to this; it is not good to force somebody to belief in God, which is probably the only reason why he doesn't do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

The above is really quite sad in my opinion. Your core belief is to not be an individual but to take on the thoughts and opinions of someone else because for whatever reason, you can't find value in the thoughts and opinions that you developed on your own.

I understand that you feel this way Mistress, but I can assure you that it is not that I do not value my own beliefs, but only that I value Master's beliefs more. If I would draw the blueprints to a house, and so would an architect, then I would probably value the architect's plans over my own, because I found him more capable at designing them. Likewise, I find Master more capable then myself at designing ideas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Look, I can see that this is how you want to be and don't desire to change it, nor am I trying to convince you to. But you can certainly see from the messages on this post, that your way is somewhat rare. Each person lives their own way, each has their own "kink," and while you aren't the only one who sees this as being a good way to be, I think it can be very offputting and frightening to a "newbie" who is looking to learn and will mistake this as being the way it has to be, especially with all the whack ass "doms" that are messaging them and tellling them if they are subs/slaves, then they MUST do this or that, behave this way or that way. Most of us know that there is not really a right way or a wrong way of doing things, only our own individual way. Wouldn't you hate to think that some poor newbie who is more mainstream than you, but lacking in knowledge and experience would suppress his/her feelings because they knew they couldn't do what you are doing? The one thing that does come across about you is that you seem to be a very kind and warm person. I don't think you would want anyone to deny who they were because they misunderstood something.

I'm sorry Mistress, I did realize I was making my posts come across as if I thought it should be this way for everybody. I usually try to avoid that very thing. Maybe I should put a disclaimer in and notify people that I don't mean to suggest that the way I like things are right or 'normal' for everybody. Just as I'm sure that you didn't mean to imply that your way of viewing things should be right and 'normal' for me.

As to teaching the newbies, are you suggesting that I should not talk about my way of life just because it's not the common standard? I thought the whole point of these fora was to talk about things that most people do not consider to be normal.
I believe that it is beneficial to show as many sides as possible to a story, so that people (newbies) actually know what options there are out there, and that it is not wrong to differentiate yourself from the norm, even (especially?) in a community like this.

Further, I do not believe it is my job to not express myself to protect other people from making mistakes. I had to learn for myself what of the things of what I read online I found important and liked and what I did not valued or liked. I don't believe it is helpful to make everything as easy as possible for people; we all need to learn and make our own mistakes while learning.
Showing all the possibilities out there will, in my opinion, help people to figure out what is real and what is not faster then shunning or silencing a whole group of people because they are different.

If people get scared because they read of what I do in my life, than that is their problem, not mine and they should probably go find a different type of forum to go read on. Personally, I don't belief in coddling or overprotecting a 'poor' newbie, but instead feel it is only helpful to educate them about possibilities so can decide for themselves what is the right way for them.

I wish you well and would like to thank you for an interesting conversation thus far,

ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/22/2009 9:48:56 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

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Post #: 49

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/22/2009 9:33:32 PM

ishyB

Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

Oops dubble posted by accident

< Message edited by ishyB -- 7/22/2009 9:52:57 PM >

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to ishyB)

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Post #: 50

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/22/2009 10:25:04 PM

Racquelle

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE... Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things? Or may i let him have his own opinions? ...

Of course he will have his own opinions, and keep in mind, making him share yours means you end up having to do all the thinking, which can become exhausting. You are still two human beings - neither of you is going to turn on a dime.

(in reply to oneDsCOUPLE)

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Post #: 51

RE: Rights and opinions of sub in D/s relationship - 7/23/2009 1:15:06 AM

Mistressbinature

Posts: 64
Joined: 7/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oneDsCOUPLE

Hello. Me and my sub have a started a D/s relationship. We were together 2 years ago before in classic vanilla relationship. Now we trasformed it to D/s. He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave. I want to ask you some question about D/s relationship. Is it ok, if i dont accept opinions of my sub and i try to change them and i put pressure on him because he have different opinions on some things ? Or may i let him have his own opinions ? He is also not very sure how deep is his submission..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two. Please help direct us ,and answer on my questions. Thank you very much for your feedbacks. oneDsCouple - Domme

He crave deep in his soul to be my sub, slave BUT but He is also not very sure how deep is his submission
Seems to be a serious problem here, your dreams verus his reality. You can't make someone "anything" they are not, no matter how much you want it.
A submissive needs to grow, some are able to go farther than others, this does not mean they are any less valuable. So if I were in your shoees, I'd start slow and work your way up. And while your at it, I suggest you get some training because you will definitely need it based on you statement below

..if he needs to be my sub or a real total slave with not so many rights or someting in the middle of those two

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Post #: 52